U.S. Politics: "Trump Is Dumber Than A Bag Of Hair"

[Ormond]

16 hours ago, mormont said:

[mod] Knock off the personal bickering, please. [/mod]

That said, isn't there an argument that the increasing prevalence of death threats of the former type contributes to a culture where death threats of the latter type can be minimised or dismissed? If death threats on the internet are an everyday occurrence, then my ex posting them on my Facebook page can be waved away by the police, can't it?

Is there any evidence that police are more likely to "wave away" domestic violence threats when they are on Facebook than when the come through other means?

I would hope that all law enforcement agencies would realize that a threat that comes from someone who has had a personal relationship with the one who is threatened should be taken more seriously, no matter by what medium it is delivered. 

 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

12 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

And for that type of blatant dishonesty, even more than what one usually finds in politics, they need to pay. Johnny Cash said don’t go down writing hot checks in Mississippi and that’s exactly what the Republican Party did here and now the bill is due.

*snip*

Continuing in my role of synthetic conservative^tm (this is fun), Actually, the bill isn't due.  In fact, quite the opposite.  The bill may be due in 2018, though I doubt it.  Your quote of de Toqueville is, in fact, spot on.  Though it is relatively simplistic, the recent pop-history White Trash goes into this rather more.  There is a morality attached to poverty.  Even worse, we have a long history of thinking of poverty as genetic.  That is, one is poor because one's parents were poor, not because of the simple fact that one's parents were poor, but because one's parents' abilities are/were deficient, meaning that one is destined to poverty.  I find this worse than the mere moral judgment.  

2 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

There is plenty of economic theory out there suggesting the simple ol’ story told in a microeconomic 101 textbook doesn’t always hold and there is a role for government to play, like 1) Negative externalities, 2) informational asymmetries (like Akerlof Market for Lemons), 3) monopolies and monopsonies, etc. etc.

*snip*

Well, precisely.  Interestingly, Newton and Smith were near contemporaries (Newton died a couple of years after Smith was born).  Waving one's (invisible) hands and saying "but free markets do better!" in response to commentary about modern economic transactions is about as useful as quoting Newton to respond to a question on quantum mechanics.  Though OGE and I don't necessarily agree on everything (I'm confident that we don't), I do think we agree that the economy is far to complicated and sophisticated to explain through micro 101 supply/demand curves and invisible hands.  The libertarian fantasy is just that - a fantasy.  How the government should behave as an economic actor is another question (and that's where OGE and I probably have some daylight between us, but you know, discussion is interesting :)), but that it is and must be an economic actor of a relatively mammoth size in order for a society as complex as ours to run seems to me almost without question.  

[Fez]

A not exactly unexpected (but still big) effect of Trump ending TPP negotiations:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/06/europe-and-japan-announce-trade-deal-to-rival-nafta

Quote

 

On Thursday, Japan took on the mantle of the global rules-based trading system, as it sidestepped a failing trade agreement with the United States to forge a historic new pact with the European Union.

Leaders from Japan and the European Union on Thursday announced their agreement in principle on the broad strokes of a trade deal that will cover nearly 30 percent of the global economy, 10 percent of the world's population and 40 percent of global trade.

 

This'll really help American manufacturing, I'm sure.

[OldGimletEye]

On 7/6/2017 at 9:56 AM, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Continuing in my role of synthetic conservative^tm (this is fun), Actually, the bill isn't due.  In fact, quite the opposite.  The bill may be due in 2018, though I doubt it.  

I guess it’s possible that the Republicans might not ever have to pay the bill. They may in fact end up being like an orange swamp thing welching on his legal fees.

We shall see, I suppose.

[mormont]

33 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Is there any evidence that police are more likely to "wave away" domestic violence threats when they are on Facebook than when the come through other means?

Not that I know of: it was just an example. The general point was just me wondering if it's really possible to talk about internet death threats being common and easy so they shouldn't be taken too seriously, without also recognising that this might have negative consequences. An overworked police officer who doesn't take domestic violence seriously, for example, might wave away a Facebook death threat on the grounds that it was probably just a moment's anger, it's so easy to do nowadays, doesn't necessarily mean anything, and so on.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Just now, OldGimletEye said:

I guess it’s possible that the Republicans might not ever have to pay the bill. They may in fact end up being like an orange swamp thing welching on his legal fees.

We’ll shall see, I suppose.

I think that Rs probably do keep Congress in 2018.  I don't see a real path otherwise.  2020....who knows.  The American public is fickle....

[ding-fries-are-done]

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

You mean, like the alt-right does every single time they find something that upsets them on the internet?

I take it you have expressed your support for Emily Lance's freedom of expression then?
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/07/05/philadephia-woman-posts-july-4th-video-urinating-on-american-flag/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Yeah, I thought not...

 

Then you would be wrong.  

I don't condone her actions but she has the freedom to do what she did.  

Let's see if you can admit that you are wrong.  

[Dr. Pepper]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What the heck?  Where does a school have the authority to make a high school diploma conditional upon things outside the control of the school itself?  The High School Diploma is generally a necessary precursor to most jobs and college acceptance (well at least the acceptance is predicated upon a high school diploma being achieved before the student begins matriculation).  I suppose the military will accept people without High School Diplomas but I was under the impression that the Military was becoming more selective in who it will allow into its ranks.  I have no information about "gap year programs" but I suspect that they too want High School Diploma's before they will allow the Student to participate in their programs.  

I don't like this.  If a student has completed the normal requirements for a High School Diploma they should receive the diploma.  If they want to spend the next year creating an internet Start up or playing video games 18 hours a day, that is the student's business. 

A GED would suffice for many things, including even acceptance to Ivy League universities (though of course those are special circumstances).  But the problem is that it's not all that easy or even cheap to get a GED.  It's not easy or cheap to get into vocational schools, or college, or even apprenticeship programs.  It can be difficult to join the military.  A GAP year program tends to be for the wealthy.  

Maybe this proposal would include exceptions for those students who have start up business plans, but who would approve thsoe things?  Would it be a single person in the school or district who might be biased and think a coloring book creating business is stupid?  Or maybe someone would like to immediately become a home maker.  What then?  What about those students who might need to care for sick or aging family members?  Or like someone else mentioned, what about undocumented students who can't get legal work? And what about students suffering from addiction who need medical care rather than the stress of seeking something the district will approve?  

This shit is making me more upset the longer I think about it.  Who the fuck is Rahm Emanuel and co to dictate how a person spends their post high school life?  I hope his political career goes up in fucking flames.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

A GED would suffice for many things, including even acceptance to Ivy League universities (though of course those are special circumstances).  But the problem is that it's not all that easy or even cheap to get a GED.  It's not easy or cheap to get into vocational schools, or college, or even apprenticeship programs.  It can be difficult to join the military.  A GAP year program tends to be for the wealthy.  

Maybe this proposal would include exceptions for those students who have start up business plans, but who would approve thsoe things?  Would it be a single person in the school or district who might be biased and think a coloring book creating business is stupid?  Or maybe someone would like to immediately become a home maker.  What then?  What about those students who might need to care for sick or aging family members?  Or like someone else mentioned, what about undocumented students who can't get legal work? And what about students suffering from addiction who need medical care rather than the stress of seeking something the district will approve?  

This shit is making me more upset the longer I think about it.  Who the fuck is Rahm Emanuel and co to dictate how a person spends their post high school life?  I hope his political career goes up in fucking flames.

I agree with everything you've just said.  This is wrong on any number of levels.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

37 minutes ago, ding-fries-are-done said:

Let's see if you can admit that you are wrong.  

How are we wrong? The mistake this kid made was to buckle under and apologize. He should've forced CNN's hand and then sued. Or do you think that maybe he had reason to be afraid given the anti-semitic stuff? 

[ding-fries-are-done]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

How are we wrong? The mistake this kid made was to buckle under and apologize. He should've forced CNN's hand and then sued. Or do you think that maybe he had reason to be afraid given the anti-semitic stuff? 

Really???

You didn't read the post did you?

The gentleman asked me if I supported the girl who urinated on the American flag and assumed I didn't.  He was wrong and I asked him to admit that he was wrong in his assumption.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

8 minutes ago, ding-fries-are-done said:

Really???

You didn't read the post did you?

The gentleman asked me if I supported the girl who urinated on the American flag and assumed I didn't.  He was wrong and I asked him to admit that he was wrong in his assumption.  

I assumed you were bringing up CNN/Trump GIF guy again. Apologies. 

 

/By the way, these fries are way undercooked.

[Fez]

WaPo reporter Dave Weigel is live-tweeting from Jerry Moran's open town hall in Kansas https://twitter.com/daveweigel and its interesting just how far away from 'yes' Moran sounds right now (and by way of sounding like Collins/Heller/Murkowski, not Cruz/Lee/Paul; for the most part). Moran is a mainline conservative Republican backbencher who almost always votes how leadership wants him to vote, for him to be like this a big deal; especially if there are other senators like him.

He doesn't even have any specific demands, he opposes the underlying structure and goals of the bill. He also said he wants a 60 vote threshold on the bill and any amendments, which is a bridge further than anyone has gone as far as I know (Collins has said she wants bipartisanship but hasn't said exactly what that means to her).

[maarsen]

2 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Continuing in my role of synthetic conservative^tm (this is fun), Actually, the bill isn't due.  In fact, quite the opposite.  The bill may be due in 2018, though I doubt it.  Your quote of de Toqueville is, in fact, spot on.  Though it is relatively simplistic, the recent pop-history White Trash goes into this rather more.  There is a morality attached to poverty.  Even worse, we have a long history of thinking of poverty as genetic.  That is, one is poor because one's parents were poor, not because of the simple fact that one's parents were poor, but because one's parents' abilities are/were deficient, meaning that one is destined to poverty.  I find this worse than the mere moral judgment.  

Well, precisely.  Interestingly, Newton and Smith were near contemporaries (Newton died a couple of years after Smith was born).  Waving one's (invisible) hands and saying "but free markets do better!" in response to commentary about modern economic transactions is about as useful as quoting Newton to respond to a question on quantum mechanics.  Though OGE and I don't necessarily agree on everything (I'm confident that we don't), I do think we agree that the economy is far to complicated and sophisticated to explain through micro 101 supply/demand curves and invisible hands.  The libertarian fantasy is just that - a fantasy.  How the government should behave as an economic actor is another question (and that's where OGE and I probably have some daylight between us, but you know, discussion is interesting :)), but that it is and must be an economic actor of a relatively mammoth size in order for a society as complex as ours to run seems to me almost without question.  

Let's look at Newton,  one of the greatest mathemeticians ever. Newton's universal law of gravitation is used by NASA to fire space craft at distant planets with great accuracy, but as  as you go beyond 2 bodies with a mutual centre of attraction,  the math does not have a general solution. Compare this to economics where you have billions of interactions, with no general solution to even the simplest interaction and any statement that anyone can make as to the predictability of any economic theory is just meaningless gibberish. On top of this consider that planets, when confronted with Newton's laws, unlike people, cannot decide to change by their orbits.

[Kalbear]

43 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

How are we wrong? The mistake this kid made was to buckle under and apologize. He should've forced CNN's hand and then sued. Or do you think that maybe he had reason to be afraid given the anti-semitic stuff? 

For the last fucking time: this is not a kid. This is a middle-aged man. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, Kalbear said:

For the last fucking time: this is not a kid. This is a middle-aged man. 

I thought he was supposed to be 15? Ah hell, who gives a fuck? 

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I thought he was supposed to be 15? Ah hell, who gives a fuck? 

That was the alt-right bullshit that they came up with which quickly spread around the internet thanks to Donald Jr. And people like you bought it.

No, HanAssholeSolo is not 15.

Quote

CNN also provided a statement to me in its defense: “CNN decided not to publish the name of the Reddit user out of concern for his safety. Any assertion that the network blackmailed or coerced him is false. The user, who is an adult male, not a 15-year-old boy, apologized and deleted his account before ever speaking with our reporter. CNN never made any deal, of any kind, with the user. In fact, CNN included its decision to withhold the user's identity in an effort to be completely transparent that there was no deal.”

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

That was the alt-right bullshit that they came up with which quickly spread around the internet thanks to Donald Jr. And people like you bought it.

No, HanAssholeSolo is not 15.

In my defense this wasn't just floated around the internet. It was all over Newstalk Radio yesterday morning.

[Rippounet]

48 minutes ago, ding-fries-are-done said:

The gentleman asked me if I supported the girl who urinated on the American flag and assumed I didn't.  He was wrong and I asked him to admit that he was wrong in his assumption.  

Actually I was asking you if you had ever taken time to criticize and condemn Breitbart (or other far-right media) before today, since you seem so quick to criticize and condemn CNN.

Because in one case you have an established behavior that has been going on for a while (actually publishing the names of "leftists" who do "bad things", therefore exposing them to danger) while in the other you have the rumor that CNN threatened to publish a name.

 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

22 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Let's look at Newton,  one of the greatest mathemeticians ever. Newton's universal law of gravitation is used by NASA to fire space craft at distant planets with great accuracy, but as  as you go beyond 2 bodies with a mutual centre of attraction,  the math does not have a general solution. Compare this to economics where you have billions of interactions, with no general solution to even the simplest interaction and any statement that anyone can make as to the predictability of any economic theory is just meaningless gibberish. On top of this consider that planets, when confronted with Newton's laws, unlike people, cannot decide to change by their orbits.

Well exactly.  The free rational actor with perfect information simply doesn't exist.