Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 10 hours ago, dmc515 said: Right. He'd rather have the talk be about that instead of health care. And that's a smart move. Every GOP legislator can comfortably disown Trump's comments. They can't do the same with the bill. I think the mistake you're making is that you believe this was done with tactical intent. It wasn't. It's just his typical lashing out at women who criticize him. He's done this for years, long before he ever had a taste for political life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 29 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I think the mistake you're making is that you believe this was done with tactical intent. It wasn't. It's just his typical lashing out at women who criticize him. He's done this for years, long before he ever had a taste for political life. Maybe, maybe not. But "Trump says something outrageous, media turns into PC police and insists he should be ashamed" is the most reliable thing in Trump's playbook. He's done it over and over again, and it has worked literally every time. We should all know by now that Trump is doesn't feel shame, and his base LOVES it. Trump's "blood coming out of her wherever" remark was an essential part of turning momentum around in the election. If the media is busy tut-tuting Trump over his manners instead of talking about his monstrous policies, Trump can count on getting reelected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Maybe, maybe not. But "Trump says something outrageous, media turns into PC police and insists he should be ashamed" is the most reliable thing in Trump's playbook. He's done it over and over again, and it has worked literally every time. We should all know by now that Trump is doesn't feel shame, and his base LOVES it. Trump's "blood coming out of her wherever" remark was an essential part of turning momentum around in the election. If the media is busy tut-tuting Trump over his manners instead of talking about his monstrous policies, Trump can count on getting reelected. I absolutely agree that Trump routinely attempts to distract the media and lead them on a wild goose chase, but I don't think this is an example of it. I'm fairly certain that this is just Trump being a misogynistic, petulant brat. I bet what was running through his mind when he tweeted that was, "She was mean to me, so I have to be even meaner to her, because that shows my strength." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 38 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I think the mistake you're making is that you believe this was done with tactical intent. It wasn't. It's just his typical lashing out at women who criticize him. He's done this for years, long before he ever had a taste for political life. I agree. I think there is zero chance this was done with tactical intent. This is and has been Trump's MO for a long time. He lashes out against people who attack him, especially women and he does it with vulgar lies. This is more due to his mental state then any attempt to distract. He basically just admitted to controlling the editorial choices of the National Enquirer and blackmailing Mike and Joe. Can't imagine that'll play too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 13 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I absolutely agree that Trump routinely attempts to distract the media and lead them on a wild goose chase, but I don't think this is an example of it. I'm fairly certain that this is just Trump being a misogynistic, petulant brat. I bet what was running through his mind when he tweeted that was, "She was mean to me, so I have to be even meaner to her, because that shows my strength." I don't see why you would say that this time is any different from the other times. Trump picked a fight with Meghan Kelly, Rosie O'Donnell, and Alicia Machado during the campaign. All of them, if you look at the individual merits make him look like a jerk, but they all succeeded in changing the narrative into PC Police vs Donald Trump, which he is bound to win. And it establishes his credibility as a "tough guy" who doesn't back down in the face of criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I'm agnostic on whether this was an attempt to distract. Trump's go-to distraction move is usually to talk about Obama or Hillary Clinton. His personal attacks normally read to me just as him being a bully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 20 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I don't see why you would say that this time is any different from the other times. Trump picked a fight with Meghan Kelly, Rosie O'Donnell, and Alicia Machado during the campaign. All of them, if you look at the individual merits make him look like a jerk, but they all succeeded in changing the narrative into PC Police vs Donald Trump, which he is bound to win. And it establishes his credibility as a "tough guy" who doesn't back down in the face of criticism. Yes, but I don't think any of them were a calculated attempt to distract either. It does happen and it will continue to happen because he's the fucking President and when he personally attacks people, that's a big deal, but I don't think he's sitting there going "lets distract from healthcare today by attacking Mika. That's the plan". He's too impulsive and short sighted to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mexal said: Yes, but I don't think any of them were a calculated attempt to distract either. It does happen and it will continue to happen because he's the fucking President and when he personally attacks people, that's a big deal, but I don't think he's sitting there going "lets distract from healthcare today by attacking Mika. That's the plan". He's too impulsive and short sighted to do that. Trump's campaign against the media and how "he's a strong man, who isn't constrained by liberal sensibilities" is definitely a conscious choice. Really all of his Twitter attacks on women fit into the pattern of being tactically stupid (they make him look like a jerk, and polls consistently show ~70% of people hate it) but strategically smart (it distracts attention away from real issues and contributes to his tough guy, no back down, all the right enemies image). So to me saying it is just Trump lashing out, and a tactically stupid move, is both true and missing the forest for the trees. The strategy of dominating the news media by being a sexist bully has worked and is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 12 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: It's the brazen voter suppression stink it gives off that's shocking, rather than the fact that the govt can readily lay hands on this information. These people think they can so openly seek to disenfranchise voters with no negative public reaction. This suggests it's the average US voter who is dumber than a bag of hair rather than Trump, or they think the average US voter is dumber than a bag of hair. Exactly! That anyone thought I was concerned about any fracking thing else, or that this isn't illegal according to any of the laws that have governed voting and elections in the USA are living in a world of naive credulity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Wethers said: I don't think it was a threat or typed in anger. I think it was a somewhat out-of-the-blue joking reference to The Incredible Hulk. "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" Yah orangilla tiny fingers says shyte like this all the time and expects people to take him seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, Mexal said: Yes, but I don't think any of them were a calculated attempt to distract either. It does happen and it will continue to happen because he's the fucking President and when he personally attacks people, that's a big deal, but I don't think he's sitting there going "lets distract from healthcare today by attacking Mika. That's the plan". He's too impulsive and short sighted to do that. But not so much that he doesn't attempt to blackmail and retaliate against media figures who don't worship him -- and he uses fox for that a lot. For a single instance only, what he did when Salma Hayack who he hit on and refused his advances: http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/302279-salma-hayek-i-rejected-trumps-advances-so-he-planted-a-tabloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Maithanet said: Maybe, maybe not. But "Trump says something outrageous, media turns into PC police and insists he should be ashamed" is the most reliable thing in Trump's playbook. He's done it over and over again, and it has worked literally every time. We should all know by now that Trump is doesn't feel shame, and his base LOVES it. Trump's "blood coming out of her wherever" remark was an essential part of turning momentum around in the election. If the media is busy tut-tuting Trump over his manners instead of talking about his monstrous policies, Trump can count on getting reelected. I agree that now that he's building a political track record, the media should be more focused on that. That said, while his base does love his shit-talking, nobody else does. And Trump has not won over any of his detractors either. He will continue to embarrass the office of the presidency on twitter and IRL for the next 3 1/2 years. He made bold promises during the campaign that he will never be able to fulfill. He promised to repeal and replace Obamacare with something that was cheaper and better coverage, he promised to build a wall that Mexico would pay for. Neither of those things are going to happen. Most R's ultimately voted for him in 2016 but I think it was a leap of faith for a good many of them, and I'm not sure that all of them will do it again in 2020. I just cannot see America signing up for four more years of this guy, especially if he doesn't deliver any major policy victories. IMO the R's are already flirting with disaster on the healthcare bill. They get it passed and soon there will be politically unsavory examples of people negatively affected by losing their healthcare and if they do not get something passed they are going to take heat for whining for 6 years but not actually doing anything when given the opportunity by the voters. All combined with the fact that probably only about 35% of the country does not find the president embarrassing. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I'm thinking this little experiment will have run its course for enough people that Trump is likely to be a 1-term president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, S John said: Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I'm thinking this little experiment will have run its course for enough people that Trump is likely to be a 1-term president. We'll see. I'm not making a prediction either way, except that if the main issues we're talking about through 2020 are Trump vs the media and Trump vs political correctness, then Trump will win. It is up to Democrats and the media to ensure that the discourse is more substantial than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 We're going to get more and more coverage of the orange fingered as he more and more attempts blackmail, retaliation on the media and their screen faces such as this: http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/joe-scarborough-alleges-he-was-target-white-house-blackmail-scheme-make-him-grovel This includes amazon - Bezos and the WaPo, not only light news coverage / celebrity heavy things like Morning Joe. Still, considering this, it seems even more baffling the anger with which some (as on this forum even) have responded to those bringing the information that the orange's 'elections commissioner' demanded every state provide the names of all registered voters going back to 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 22 hours ago, dmc515 said: Wouldn't say this backfired. This was his way of getting the media to stop talking about the horrible round of polling for Trumpcare that came out yesterday. And, as usual, it worked. I just don't buy that he is doing that rationally and deliberately in a manipulative sense. He is always making outrageous tweets, and almost all weeks there would be something more important going on that the tweets deflect coverage from. This is an accidental correlation caused by his uncontrollable impulsive narcissism, not a deliberate strategy. Of course the media needs to learn better how to put more attention on what's really important, but it's hard for most people, even those who understand we really shouldn't, not to be gawkers at the train wreck of Trump's media presence. P.S. Now having read the whole thread I see I am agreeing with several other posters. I just can't keep up with you all any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I don't think the goblin is smart enough to run deliberate distractions, but the people around him may use his predictable responses to their advantage. Maybe they even egg him on when they need a diversion, "did you hear what X said about you?" It is fairly obvious that Donny is out of his element with regards to policy and the finer points of any given issue, I don't think he is capable of thinking even one move ahead. Shithead gonna shithead, leave it to others to try and corral the whirlwind and make some use of the human disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 50 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Trump's campaign against the media and how "he's a strong man, who isn't constrained by liberal sensibilities" is definitely a conscious choice. Really all of his Twitter attacks on women fit into the pattern of being tactically stupid (they make him look like a jerk, and polls consistently show ~70% of people hate it) but strategically smart (it distracts attention away from real issues and contributes to his tough guy, no back down, all the right enemies image). So to me saying it is just Trump lashing out, and a tactically stupid move, is both true and missing the forest for the trees. The strategy of dominating the news media by being a sexist bully has worked and is working. I'm of the same mind as Mexal. I agree with you that Trump often times tries to distract the media when things are going poorly for him, and that attacking the media is one of the main ways he tries to do it, but I don't think this is an example of that. But I don't think this is an example of it. When Trump attacks women, especially based on their looks, he's just being himself, i.e. a sexist pig who can't control himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 An Article That is Notable to me Mostly Because of the Mitch McConnell Photo http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/29/senate-republicans-health-care-tax-cuts-240091?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark /I don't believe I've ever seen him more expressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, Ormond said: I just don't buy that he is doing that rationally and deliberately in a manipulative sense. He is always making outrageous tweets, and almost all weeks there would be something more important going on that the tweets deflect coverage from. This is an accidental correlation caused by his uncontrollable impulsive narcissism, not a deliberate strategy. Of course the media needs to learn better how to put more attention on what's really important, but it's hard for most people, even those who understand we really shouldn't, not to be gawkers at the train wreck of Trump's media presence. P.S. Now having read the whole thread I see I am agreeing with several other posters. I just can't keep up with you all any more. Yeah, been thinking about this some. It is tactical in that Trump does this routinely as part of his deal, but it's thoughtless. He does it without any real planning, because he has so far been rewarded for it with attention and success. I'd say it is far closer to salivating at a bell than any mindful decision making; he knows that if he attacks women, he gets benefits in one way or another. The most plausible explanation is that he or another staffer tuned in, saw Mika attacking him on his fake Time covers, and got pissed. More often than not his angry tweets are a direct result of a cable show at or near that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 ^^^^ Yeah, I think this is the equivalent of an old man yelling at his TV set, except this old man is POTUS and he has a Twitter account that is followed by millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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