Sansa and the Savage Giant

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

23 hours ago, HallowedMarcus said:

      

   Full knowledge? Sansa used it because Dontos insisted her using it, telling her that it had a kind of magic proprieties that would aid her escape. The only knowledge she had is that the wedding day would be the day of her escape from King's Landing, that after it, she was supposed to go her place of prayer (weirwood/oak tree) and await her 'floriant knight'.

   I quote from A Strom of Swords:

   Only afterward on LF's ship she finds out the necklace did not belong to Dontos family jewelry and that it had poison in them and that the Queen of Thorns used one of them to poison Joffrey. She then remembered the QoT to straightened her hair net.

   No, she had no full knowledge, she did not know her hair net contained poison, that Lady Olenna Redwyne would remove one its stones to poison the King. 

You seem very confused between the books and the TV show. 

Sansa is given the hair net by Dontos in the Godswood. There ain't no necklace! And nothing is claimed as having belonged to Dontas's family. I've pulled the relevant passages up. Here Dontos first tells Sansa of the plan to escape. He explains that the wedding will be the day. And that the busy crowded court will aid in her escape. 

But then he presents her with the hairnet and tells her explicitly that the hair net will take her home, and that it is vengeance. That it is magic! 

So you see unless you think Sansa is an imbecile she knows there and then that the hair net is significant in some way and that wearing it is vital to her escape. So she goes into it knowing she somehow has a role to play in whatever goes down by wearing the hair net. 

Quote

 

When?" Sansa asked. "When will we go?"

"The night of Joffrey's wedding. After the feast. All the necessary arrangements have been made. The Red Keep will be full of strangers. Half the court will be drunk and the other half will be helping Joffrey bed his bride. For a little while, you will be forgotten, and the confusion will be our friend."

"The wedding won't be for a moon's turn yet. Margaery Tyrell is at Highgarden, they've only now sent for her."

 

"You've waited so long, be patient awhile longer. Here, I have something for you." Ser Dontos fumbled in his pouch and drew out a silvery spiderweb, dangling it between his thick fingers.

It was a hair net of fine-spun silver, the strands so thin and delicate the net seemed to weigh no more than a breath of air when Sansa took it in her fingers. Small gems were set wherever two strands crossed, so dark they drank the moonlight. "What stones are these?"

"Black amethysts from Asshai. The rarest kind, a deep true purple by daylight."

"It's very lovely," Sansa said, thinking, It is a ship I need, not a net for my hair.

"Lovelier than you know, sweet child. It's magic, you see. It's justice you hold. It's vengeance for your father." Dontos leaned close and kissed her again. "It's home."

 

 

  Here Dontos makes it plain she MUST wear the hair net. 

Quote

 

The night of Joffrey's wedding, that's not so long, wear the silver hair net and do as I told you, and afterward we make our escape." He tried to plant a kiss on her cheek.

 

And after, she straight away examines the hair net and finds a stone missing, She knows the stones are dodgy and this knowledge strikes a fear into her when she see's the empty socket, she can't help but be drawn to the missing stone and then she has to try to reassure herself the stone is only an amethyst. And convince herself it simply fell out...Unless.. yeah, that unless is there to inform us that she has just put two and two together about the stones. And just in case the reader has not grasped that Sansa knows the role the hair net has played it is spelt out completely for us Dontos said it was magic, it would take her home, she must wear it to the wedding feast. And now the King is dead. the thing is she knew all of that bar Joffrey being dead before she went to the feast and wore it, she knew when she selected it to wear that day that it was significant in the plan to escape, she had already questioned Dontos as to the nature of the stones when he gave her it, and as soon as she takes it off she examines it and discovers one missing. She may not have known exactly what it was she had in her hair, but she knew it was important and she's not dim, she already suspected something was off about it. 

Quote

 

When she pulled it free, her long auburn hair cascaded down her back and across her shoulders. The web of spun silver hung from her fingers, the fine metal glimmering softly, the stones black in the moonlight. Black amethysts from Asshai. One of them was missing. Sansa lifted the net for a closer look. There was a dark smudge in the silver socket where the stone had fallen out.

A sudden terror filled her. Her heart hammered against her ribs, and for an instant she held her breath. Why am I so scared, it's only an amethyst, a black amethyst from Asshai, no more than that. It must have been loose in the setting, that's all. It was loose and it fell out, and now it's lying somewhere in the throne room, or in the yard, unless . . .

Ser Dontos had said the hair net was magic, that it would take her home. He told her she must wear it tonight at Joffrey's wedding feast. The silver wire stretched tight across her knuckles. Her thumb rubbed back and forth against the hole where the stone had been. She tried to stop, but her fingers were not her own. Her thumb was drawn to the hole as the tongue is drawn to a missing tooth. What kind of magic? The king was dead, the cruel king who had been her gallant prince a thousand years ago. 

 

1

And here again, she confronts Dontos about the stones; and again he fobs her off that they are amethysts.  The reader has to be pretty dense at this point to not realise Sansa was aware that by wearing the hair net shit was gonna go down, but that this shit would enable her to escape. She made the choice to wear it and take the risk. Just like she earlier made the choice to go to the Godswood armed with only a dinner knife to meet the author of her mysterious note.  

 

Quote

 

Sansa pulled away from his touch. "You said I must wear the hair net. The silver net with . . . what sort of stones are those?"

"Amethysts. Black amethysts from Asshai, my lady."

 

 

If you think Sansa is dumb and weak you haven't been paying attention. 

[Winter's Cold]

On 7/7/2017 at 8:06 AM, Lollygag said:

And if they learn that Arya had three free magic kills and didn’t use them on Tywin, Cersei and Joff which would have drastically changed the fates of the family?

Let’s not blame children and teens for not having the perspective of adults, especially given that the adults in this series don’t have great perspective themselves.

Children’s survival depends on their immediate environment hence why Arya made her choice. It was understandable for a child her age and in her situation. Likewise Sansa. She had no idea and couldn’t have had any idea just what she was doing. Pre-teens and teenagers often attribute their parent’s decisions to exerting arbitrary power rather than the parents having a good reason for their choices which the teens just don’t understand. Sansa acted as a normal pre-teen who thought her father was being a jerk just ‘cause.

Given Ned’s mistakes, Catelyn’s stealing Tyrion, Robb’s marrying Jeyne, Jon not understanding politicking and getting himself stabbed likely compromising the security of the Wall, Bran learning to be a demi-god (major potential for mistakes there) and Rickon being extremely angry and out-of-control because everyone forgot him, I highly doubt any of the Starks are going to be in any position to get all judgy with the others without some major hypocrisy and double standards.

Sansa cannot be excused for betraying her father especially when that betrayal had severe negative consequences for not only her but also Arya and Jeyne. 

Arya wasting her wishes was foolish but betrayal. Their actions are not comparable. 

[Lollygag]

11 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

Sansa cannot be excused for betraying her father especially when that betrayal had severe negative consequences for not only her but also Arya and Jeyne. 

Arya wasting her wishes was foolish but betrayal. Their actions are not comparable. 

My view is unchanged.

[HallowedMarcus]

15 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

And after, she straight away examines the hair net and finds a stone missing

   Yes, she does find one of the stones missing and guess that something odd and evil is/was on the play. True she does discover and thinks about that ... AFTER Joffrey is dead. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

6 hours ago, HallowedMarcus said:

   Yes, she does find one of the stones missing and guess that something odd and evil is/was on the play. True she does discover and thinks about that ... AFTER Joffrey is dead. 

Oh dear, you really don't have much reading comprehension, do you?

Right after Sansa thinks that the hair net is very beautiful but ultimately useless as she really needs a ship. Dontos tells her it is lovelier than you know. ie: there is more to it than being pretty. That it is magic ie: has properties beyond being a nice hair accessory. That it is justice she holds. ie: the item in her hands will bring her justice, and in case we're not sure what for he tells her it is vengeance for her father. And then leans in and kisses her before telling her it is home. ie: this item will be integral in taking you home. 

he reiterates that she must wear it the night of the wedding feast. 

She does wear it, and in doing so she accepts whatever "magic" the hair net is going to perform in enabling her to escape KL. Knowing this magic won't just take her home, but also will give her justice and vengeance for her father's death and the treatment of herself one can also assume in KL. 

If you really think Sansa doesn't realise there is more to this hair net than first appears you would have to believe her an imbecile.

She wore the hairnet in full knowledge that some shit would go down as a result, but knowing that she had to be bold in order to escape, we know she's come to this conclusion because at one point she almost chickens out when she thinks she has a betrothal to Willas Tyrell which would be a safer route out of KL maybe. But Dontos insists she must wear the hairnet the night of the wedding feast. Which is not so long away. She doesn't, of course, become betrothed to Willas because LF tells the Lannisters of this plan and they wed her to Tyrion instead.

 She then goes ahead and wears the hair net and as soon as she escapes she takes it off and examines it and this tells us she suspected all along that she would find a stone missing and she does indeed, she is gripped with a fear and tries to assure herself they are simply amethysts. But we know that she knows deep down they are something more sinister.

Ask yourself what need does Sansa have at this point to take her hair down? She has changed into the dark clothing Dontos told her to wear and donned a cloak with a hood which would hide any flashes from the silver netting, the stones aredark so no concern there. But any woman who has long hair (Or bloke actually) will tell you that any physical activity of easier with hair up. Having your very long hair down is an encumbrance.  So why take it down unless she wants to examine the hair net? 

The author reiterates that Sansa knew the hairnet was more than a hair net again here by having her recall that Dontos had told her it was magic and would take her home. She then tries to catch Dontos out finally by questioning him as to what exactly these stones are. So by this point as a reader, we've ascertained that she absolutely knows the stones are suspicious and the hair net was integral to Joffrey's death. Later on the boat, LF explains how it was done by asking her if anyone messed with her hair.  

[ravenous reader]

Quote

@The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Right after Sansa thinks that the hair net is very beautiful but ultimately useless as she really needs a ship. Dontos tells her it is lovelier than you know. ie: there is more to it than being pretty. That it is magic ie: has properties beyond being a nice hair accessory. That it is justice she holds. ie: the item in her hands will bring her justice, and in case we're not sure what for he tells her it is vengeance for her father. And then leans in and kisses her before telling her it is home. ie: this item will be integral in taking you home. 

he reiterates that she must wear it the night of the wedding feast. 

She does wear it, and in doing so she accepts whatever "magic" the hair net is going to perform in enabling her to escape KL. Knowing this magic won't just take her home, but also will give her justice and vengeance for her father's death and the treatment of herself one can also assume in KL. 

A good analogy would be Dany accepting Mirri's services, without being able to predict exactly how the sorcery would work.  When she fails to get the desired outcome, attempting to slime out of the responsibility for her son's death (blaming Jorah and Mirri -- everyone except herself for 'the sword without a hilt' she herself unleashed), Mirri confronts her saying, 'you knew the price.'  I think this is one of GRRM's major themes, namely examining to what extent a person can be held responsible or even be seen to be complicit in crimes, despite having no direct responsibility in these 'assassinations by proxy' (Littlefinger's advice/MO to keep ones hands clean...). 

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

Ser Jorah had killed her son, Dany knew. He had done what he did for love and loyalty, yet he had carried her into a place no living man should go and fed her baby to the darkness. He knew it too; the grey face, the hollow eyes, the limp. "The shadows have touched you too, Ser Jorah," she told him. The knight made no reply. Dany turned to the godswife. "You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse."

"No," Mirri Maz Duur said. "That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price."

Had she? Had she? If I look back I am lost. "The price was paid," Dany said. "The horse, my child, Quaro and Qotho, Haggo and Cohollo. The price was paid and paid and paid." She rose from her cushions. "Where is Khal Drogo? Show him to me, godswife, maegi, bloodmage, whatever you are. Show me Khal Drogo. Show me what I bought with my son's life."

 Dany's injunction 'if I look back, I'm lost' implies a lack of self-reflection -- in the selfsame moment she's considering whether she knew beforehand that the price might be her son's life, the thought is so terrible that she represses it.  

Similarly, when Sansa on the rare occasion starts reflecting on her part in things, she inevitably falls back on her stock soothing mantra about how lying to others and oneself is unavoidable, necessary, life-saving even, invariably that there was no other alternative available to her, and that it's therefore acceptable behavior, etc.  So, I guess I think both you and @HallowedMarcus are 'right' about Sansa -- she's both aware and unaware of what she's doing  (a bit like her trick on the Trident of not telling the truth while at the same time also not lying outright about any specifics, feigning ignorance to the point she almost convinces herself of it, a habit she does not outgrow):

 Alayne had told the lie so many times that she remembered it that way more oft than not; the other seemed no more than a bad dream that sometimes troubled her sleep.  (AFFC - Aayne II).  

It's the way she ducks responsibility and stays alive, while others die around her.  Notice the symbolism of how when she betrays her family she's dressed in 'blue falcon' colors (blue, white and silver) with a chain around her neck, as if GRRM is highlighting her estrangement from her own family and corresponding enslavement to some other person or principle:

Quote

"They were not the only ones present," Ned said. "Sansa, come here." Ned had heard her version of the story the night Arya had vanished. He knew the truth. "Tell us what happened."  His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shone. She blinked at her sister, then at the young prince. "I don't know," she said tearfully, looking as though she wanted to bolt. "I don't remember. Everything happened so fast, I didn't see . . . ""You rotten!" Arya shrieked. She flew at her sister like an arrow, knocking Sansa down to the ground, pummeling her. "Liar, liar, liar, liar.""Arya, stop it!" Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. "Are you hurt?" he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.

 

Quote

If you really think Sansa doesn't realise there is more to this hair net than first appears you would have to believe her an imbecile.

She's not an imbecile.  Although my view is an unpopular one, I agree with @Pain killer Jane that symbolically she is a sneaky 'blue falcon', who has perfected the art of living in bad faith, so she like Dany does not have to face accountability for the part she plays in events having destructive consequences in which she becomes embroiled.  On the other hand, I'm not disputing her victim status -- she is very much Littlefinger's patsy, as Dany is Mirri's.  

Quote

She wore the hairnet in full knowledge that some shit would go down as a result, but knowing that she had to be bold in order to escape, we know she's come to this conclusion because at one point she almost chickens out when she thinks she has a betrothal to Willas Tyrell which would be a safer route out of KL maybe. But Dontos insists she must wear the hairnet the night of the wedding feast. Which is not so long away. She doesn't, of course, become betrothed to Willas because LF tells the Lannisters of this plan and they wed her to Tyrion instead.

 She then goes ahead and wears the hair net and as soon as she escapes she takes it off and examines it and this tells us she suspected all along that she would find a stone missing and she does indeed, she is gripped with a fear and tries to assure herself they are simply amethysts. But we know that she knows deep down they are something more sinister.

Ask yourself what need does Sansa have at this point to take her hair down?

Another possible interpretation might be that she felt compelled to remove the murder weapon out of an abundance of caution, betraying her underlying feelings of guilt!

Quote

She has changed into the dark clothing Dontos told her to wear and donned a cloak with a hood which would hide any flashes from the silver netting, the stones aredark so no concern there. But any woman who has long hair (Or bloke actually) will tell you that any physical activity of easier with hair up. Having your very long hair down is an encumbrance.  So why take it down unless she wants to examine the hair net? 

Hiding instead of displaying the murder weapon so openly would seem a sensible precaution when one is fleeing the scene of a crime, particularly that of regicide for which one might lose ones own head.

Quote

The author reiterates that Sansa knew the hairnet was more than a hair net again here by having her recall that Dontos had told her it was magic and would take her home. She then tries to catch Dontos out finally by questioning him as to what exactly these stones are. So by this point as a reader, we've ascertained that she absolutely knows the stones are suspicious and the hair net was integral to Joffrey's death. Later on the boat, LF explains how it was done by asking her if anyone messed with her hair.  

What do you mean by 'trying to catch Dontos out'?

[HallowedMarcus]

On 09/07/2017 at 7:46 AM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

So you see unless you think Sansa is an imbecile she knows there and then that the hair net is significant in some way and that wearing it is vital to her escape. So she goes into it knowing she somehow has a role to play in whatever goes down by wearing the hair net.

 

 

14 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Oh dear, you really don't have much reading comprehension, do you?

    I do have a good knowledge of what is written, not a master or perfect knowledge of course, but I do comprehend what is written. I never said Sansa is an imbecilic person. Yes, she knew something would happen and that she was playing a role there. She knew she would escape but not exactly how. Yes, she probably guesses that her hairnet had was important to it and after Joffrey died she put 2 and 2 together and remove the hairnet already looking for something amiss. We don't know exactly what has happened in her mind because Joffrey's death happened with Tyrion POW.

    You wrote before that Sansa had FULL KNOWLEDGE of what would happen and I questioned full knowledge? Full knowledge would mean that Sansa knew, in absolutes, that her hairnet stones carried poison, that QoT or someone would take one or some of them and poison Joffrey's goblet, or on relative terms that she knew the stones in her hairnet contained poison that would be used to kill Joffrey and easy/allow her escape from King's Landing. 

    First, you wrote full knowledge then you wrote knowing somehow "So she goes into it knowing she somehow has a role to play in whatever goes down by wearing the hair net." The problem here is that some people believe they are the same thing.        

   

   

   

   

[HallowedMarcus]

9 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Similarly, when Sansa on the rare occasion starts reflecting on her part in things, she inevitably falls back on her stock soothing mantra about how lying to others and oneself is unavoidable, necessary, life-saving even, invariably that there was no other alternative available to her, and that it's therefore acceptable behavior, etc.

   I do concur with the honorable ravenous reader. However, I was just trying to show that while she indeed had a good perception of what would happen she did not have full knowledge of it.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

On 07/07/2017 at 7:52 AM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

She went to the wedding knowing the hair net meant Joffrey's downfall and her escape. She wore the hairnet in full knowledge that this would happen. She did not actively participate in his murder though.

@HallowedMarcus

I've quoted myself here so you can see how utterly petty you are being.  She went to the wedding wearing the hair net knowing full well that it (the hair net) meant Joffrey's downfall (It is justice, it is vengeance) and her escape (It is magic, it is home) She might not have known how, though one suspects given that she immediately and  without any reason to do so, indeed unbound hair is an incumbrance. Took down her hair and examined the hair net that she at least suspected the stones where perhaps more than amethysts?  Which is reinforced again by the fact she questions Dontos once more as to the nature of the stones. 

 

[Springwatch]

18 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

<snip>

Similarly, when Sansa on the rare occasion starts reflecting on her part in things, she inevitably falls back on her stock soothing mantra about how lying to others and oneself is unavoidable, necessary, life-saving even, invariably that there was no other alternative available to her, and that it's therefore acceptable behavior, etc.  So, I guess I think both you and @HallowedMarcus are 'right' about Sansa -- she's both aware and unaware of what she's doing  (a bit like her trick on the Trident of not telling the truth while at the same time also not lying outright about any specifics, feigning ignorance to the point she almost convinces herself of it, a habit she does not outgrow):

 Alayne had told the lie so many times that she remembered it that way more oft than not; the other seemed no more than a bad dream that sometimes troubled her sleep.  (AFFC - Aayne II). 

 

Quote

 

She's not an imbecile.  Although my view is an unpopular one, I agree with @Pain killer Jane that symbolically she is a sneaky 'blue falcon', who has perfected the art of living in bad faith, so she like Dany does not have to face accountability for the part she plays in events having destructive consequences in which she becomes embroiled.  On the other hand, I'm not disputing her victim status -- she is very much Littlefinger's patsy, as Dany is Mirri's....

I have loads of problems with these.

I can't get on board any 'blue falcon' theory when our prime example of a falcon is Jon Arryn - the very opposite of a 'bf'. In contrast, early Sansa has little to no connection to falcons, and wears many colours. (Blue is a disaster colour, I agree.)

Early Sansa is a hopeless liar - she only learns under Lannister persecution. (I will not, not argue the trial scene all over again here, only saying my thoughts are: 1) Joffrey got her drunk, 2) it sounds like she choked on her testimony and got no second chance, and 3) a plea for mercy, (not truth) is the only thing that might have worked.)

Later Sansa is a better liar - it's not comforting, it's essential for her life. LF tells her to think Alayne's thoughts, and that's what we hear whenever 'Alayne' thinks or speaks. And it's natural and unavoidable that if you're constantly telling a lie and repressing the truth, then the lie will pop up first in your thoughts. Sansa does remember the truth, though. Any crisis of identity will come later.

Besides, if she has no grasp on reality, what's her motivation for killing LF anyway?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

@ravenous reader I have a great respect for you as a poster as you always have an interesting well thought point of view. However, I disagree on this. Personally, I do not believe MMD had any influence upon Rhaego's death. If we look at the historical Targaryen "dragon" babies not one of them has survived their births, barring Laena's son who died an hour after his birth.  I tend to think MMD was full of shit for the most part and that most of what she did and said was simply bravado and utilising circumstances and tools to appear more fearsome and dangerous than she was. 

That said, there is no reason your interpretation can not work for Dany in this instance as she believes MMD caused his death and feels responsible in some way. Not that I think she would be responsible if this were the case as MMD did not in any way imply the death would be her child. it was quite obvious she was implying the stallion's life would pay for Drogo's. But given that only death can pay for life is utter bollocks anyway; either way you slice it Dany got played. 

And whilst I agree that Sansa lies. (thank the gods or she'd be long ago dead.) I disagree that the lies are self-comforting, they are pure survival. I too will not be drawn into an argument as to the Trident but it is my belief that her claim of not recalling the events was a bid at neutrality.  Telling the truth helps no one in this scenario, Arya's wolf did indeed bite Joffrey, Micah was indeed far too low born to be playing with Arya - who ought not to have been playing at such an unladylike pursuit as swords in any case -  and Joffrey's bullying would not be seen in a negative light at all by his parents. She does not wish to get her sister into trouble but equally, she can not risk alienating her future husband and his family. To do so would have been idiotic. Her only feasible tactic is to plead loss of memory; it was actually very diplomatic of her and shows us an early sign of her ability to read situations and people and act accordingly to best ensure survival.

I agree with @Springwatch this is indeed exactly what happens when you repeat a lie enough, especially when that lie is a matter of life or death. The mind does indeed blur the truth after a while.  Here we have a demonstration of how Sansa is being Alayne inside and out and how she is adept at acting. She's done a lot of it in KL too, being the meek fool for Cersei and Joffrey. This ability is what is keeping her alive. Sansa does though know inside who she is we get that message loud and clear in TWOW Alayne I. As well as her earlier AFFC chapters. She's done it with the Unkiss too, Sandor did not kiss her but she believes he did. I think later when they meet back up this will cause her to be far more forward with him than she would otherwise. 

I like your take on the removal of the hair net. 

I mean that when Dontos arrives she asks him again what stones are these, which implies she does not believe that he was honest and that they are just amethysts. She's trying to catch him out on what he told her previously. But he repeats the lie. So we know from this that she does suspect the stones. 

 

[LynnS]

On 2017-07-02 at 3:53 PM, ravenous reader said:

There's more subtle, less 'mundane' symbolism attached to Littlefinger as the giant in both visions than the sigil.  As @LynnS reminds us, 'giants come in all shapes and sizes,' so the 'curve ball' is that we're probably looking for a 'giant presence' rather than a literally big person.  Bear in mind that this information is coming to Bran and the GOHH in a dream, so instead of seeing literal images of reality, rather the underlying reality or subconscious reality, 'the truth that lies beneath the world', is being revealed to the seer via more metaphorical images.  The 'giant' in question is a giant not in physical but mental stature, and he moreover presents a huge threat to House Stark, despite his unimposing physique.

Consider 'Robert's doll', the giant that smashes his way into the castle made of snow:

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VII

 "Winterfell is the seat of House Stark," Sansa told her husband-to-be. "The great castle of the north."

"It's not so great." The boy knelt before the gatehouse. "Look, here comes a giant to knock it down." He stood his doll in the snow and moved it jerkily. "Tromp tromp I'm a giant, I'm a giant," he chanted. "Ho ho ho, open your gates or I'll mash them and smash them." Swinging the doll by the legs, he knocked the top off one gatehouse tower and then the other.

It was more than Sansa could stand. "Robert, stop that." Instead he swung the doll again, and a foot of wall exploded. She grabbed for his hand but she caught the doll instead. There was a loud ripping sound as the thin cloth tore. Suddenly she had the doll's head, Robert had the legs and body, and the rag-and-sawdust stuffing was spilling in the snow.

Lord Robert's mouth trembled. "You killlllllllled him," he wailed. Then he began to shake. It started with no more than a little shivering, but within a few short heartbeats he had collapsed across the castle, his limbs flailing about violently. White towers and snowy bridges shattered and fell on all sides. Sansa stood horrified, but Petyr Baelish seized her cousin's wrists and shouted for the maester.

 

The question is who are what is represented by the doll made of rags and sawdust?  The doll comes apart in two pieces, body and head; torn in two by Sansa and SweetRobin.   The doll itself is the giant, the weapon used to smash it's way into Winterfell.   When the puppet is destroyed, the puppet master begins to shake and tremble; the towers and bridges shatter and collapse on all sides.

I think we are given a bit of foreshadowing here, about the larger conflict between ice and fire, rather than just Petyr's machinations in the game of thrones. 

When Petyr strides the walls of Winterfell and squats like a gargoyle at it's center; he is marking the true center of Winterfell... the godswood with Winterfell built up around it. 
 

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VII

"Nothing could please me more."

She raised the walls of the glass gardens while Littlefinger roofed them over, and when they were done with that he helped her extend the walls and build the guardshall. When she used sticks for the covered bridges, they stood, just as he had said they would. The First Keep was simple enough, an old round drum tower, but Sansa was stymied again when it came to putting the gargoyles around the top. Again he had the answer. "It's been snowing on your castle, my lady," he pointed out. "What do the gargoyles look like when they're covered with snow?"

Sansa closed her eyes to see them in memory. "They're just white lumps."

 

We've seen the white lumps before:
 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

But the air was sharp and cold and full of fear. Even Summer was afraid. The fur on his neck was bristling. Shadows stretched against the hillside, black and hungry. All the trees were bowed and twisted by the weight of ice they carried. Some hardly looked like trees at all. Buried from root to crown in frozen snow, they huddled on the hill like giants, monstrous and misshapen creatures hunched against the icy wind. "They are here."

 

It seems to me that there are two giants in question: the heart tree at the center of Winterfell and the giant who comes to smash down the walls defending the godswood.   In the larger game; that could be Euron (Ho, ho, ho - his gifts are poison); who qualifies as a savage in my books with an express objective of killing all the gods.

Spoiler

I still maintain that the maid with purple serpents in her hair is Arya rather than Sansa. That the GOHH dreamed of Arya playing the part of her sister in the play "the Bloody Hand" in the Mercy chapter of WoW.  She identifies Arya immediately; when she tells her that she cannot hide (behind a mask) from her.

Of course, Petyr's gifts are poison too and while Sweetrobin is a child of his body; in the end, Sansa will have his head. 

A doll dressed in rags and made of saw-dust?

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III  

Seated on his throne of roots in the great cavern, half-corpse and half-tree, Lord Brynden seemed less a man than some ghastly statue made of twisted wood, old bone, and rotted wool. The only thing that looked alive in the pale ruin that was his face was his one red eye, burning like the last coal in a dead fire, surrounded by twisted roots and tatters of leathery white skin hanging off a yellowed skull.

 

Arya and dolls:

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII

The screaming had stopped by the time they came to Hardin's Tower, but Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun was still roaring. The giant was dangling a bloody corpse by one leg, the same way Arya used to dangle her doll when she was small, swinging it like a morningstar when menaced by vegetables. Arya never tore her dolls to pieces, though. The dead man's sword arm was yards away, the snow beneath it turning red.

A Storm of Swords - Arya XII

And there was one girl who took to following her, the village elder's daughter. She was of an age with Arya, but just a child; she cried if she skinned a knee, and carried a stupid cloth doll with her everywhere she went. The doll was made up to look like a man-at-arms, sort of, so the girl called him Ser Soldier and bragged how he kept her safe. "Go away," Arya told her half a hundred times. "Just leave me be." She wouldn't, though, so finally Arya took the doll away from her, ripped it open, and pulled the rag stuffing out of its belly with a finger.. "Now he really looks like a soldier!" she said, before she threw the doll in a brook

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Seams]

5 hours ago, LynnS said:

The question is who are what is represented by the doll made of rags and sawdust?  The doll comes apart in two pieces, body and head; torn in two by Sansa and SweetRobin.   The doll itself is the giant, the weapon used to smash it's way into Winterfell.   When the puppet is destroyed, the puppet master begins to shake and tremble; the towers and bridges shatter and collapse on all sides.

I think we are given a bit of foreshadowing here, about the larger conflict between ice and fire

 

We've seen the white lumps before:
 

Arya and dolls:

A closer look at the toys is great and provokes thought. Thanks for the good citations from the text.

This is a footnote that I added to a recent thread about Gregor Clegane and Ser Hugh of the Vale:

Quote

I think it's important to keep in mind the story of the knight marionette, relayed by the Hound in the same chapter in which Ser Hugh dies:

A woodcarver set up shop in the village under my father's keep, and to buy favor he sent us gifts. The old man made marvelous toys. I don't remember what I got, but it was Gregor's gift I wanted. A wooden knight, all painted up, every joint pegged separate and fixed with strings so you could make him fight. (AGoT, Sansa II)

. . . Who was the old man? Did he really want to buy favor with the Cleganes, or had he been sent to them with this toy? I suspect it might be worth knowing what kind of toy Sandor got, although maybe giant Gregor was the only target for this mysterious old man, if the theory is correct. If so, it seems as if he was probably working for Tywin, who used Ser Gregor to do a lot of his dirty work.

It's more likely, I think now, that the wooden knight wasn't bewitched or glamored but that it was symbolic of the power that (probably) Tywin would exercise over Ser Gregor: he used the guy to kill Rhaegar's family, to devastate the Riverlands, to punish Vargo Hoat, to fight Oberyn Martell.

Ser Gregor also ties into fire symbolism for forcing his brother's face into the fire. So your remark about the conflict of ice and fire is borne out here.

And the other passages you cite are excellent further examples of toys that symbolize a destructive invader or a protective knight, both of which could be embodied by Ser Gregor. (Or maybe Ser Gregor is the destructive, "Mr. Hyde" side of the man, and Ser Robert Strong is the protective, "Dr. Jekyll" side.)

For what it's worth, just around the time that Maester Aemon calls Tyrion a giant, Tyrion goes up on the Wall (built by giants) and encounters Jon Snow near a broken arm (catapult?) that the author says looks like a discarded toy. Could be another useful passage for the giants / toys connection.

There is a "Robert Strong" link between Sweetrobin and Ser Gregor, so I think you're getting at something important in the larger giant symbolism by looking at these toys.

 

[HallowedMarcus]

11 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

She went to the wedding knowing the hair net meant Joffrey's downfall and her escape. She wore the hairnet in full knowledge that this would happen. She did not actively participate in his murder though.

 

On 09/07/2017 at 7:46 AM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

So she goes into it knowing she somehow has a role to play in whatever goes down by wearing the hair net. 

    I do agree that she somehow knew she had a role to play and that it was connected to her hairnet. She somehow knew something would occur that would allow her to escape King's Landing. True. And she might have guessed Joffrey's downfall but she could have known for sure about it.

    That's why I believe full knowledge does not apply to this situation. By that time the only way to a King to fall was he to be killed or arrested. She knew it meant her escape and she could not have been sure about his death/downfall. As you wrote yourself "...she SOMEHOW has a role to play in WHATEVER goes down by wearing the net. Yes, she guessed, yes she probably figured he might die (downfall) but she could not have been sure about it. She somehow guessed that it would and that her hairnet had a role to play on it; she might even have assumed that her hairnet was poisoned and went on with it anyway but she was not certain about it!

   Guessing and full knowledge/understanding that it would be Joffrey's downfall (death/arrest) are different things.  

[ravenous reader]

22 hours ago, HallowedMarcus said:

   I do concur with the honorable ravenous reader. However, I was just trying to show that while she indeed had a good perception of what would happen she did not have full knowledge of it.

I agree.  Not having full knowledge, however, affords her the perks of partial knowledge, specifically the wriggle room and plausible deniability that goes with it.  

13 hours ago, Springwatch said:

 

I have loads of problems with these.

Thought you might . 

Quote

I can't get on board any 'blue falcon' theory when our prime example of a falcon is Jon Arryn - the very opposite of a 'bf'. In contrast, early Sansa has little to no connection to falcons, and wears many colours. (Blue is a disaster colour, I agree.)

I've tagged @Pain killer Jane to comment on the 'blue falcon', given that it's her concept and more fully worked-out in her mind than mine (the idea is actually quite nuanced with a broad spectrum of blue falcons and possible trajectories; last I heard she was planning an essay on the topic); perhaps she can more adequately address some of the questions you're raising.  Just a few notes to consider:

 

Your valid point about Jon Arryn being considered an honorable man by many (despite defying Aerys, which others may have found dishonorable, as PK has noted) notwithstanding, we're actually first introduced to the image of the blue falcon itself, however, under very different circumstances, when it impresses itself very visually upon the reader as a potentially important symbol in that scene signifying a critical turning point for the Starks way back at the beginning of AGOT Catelyn II, via the ominous blue blob of sealing wax stamped with the moon and falcon (FYI: a 'blue moon' is sometimes called a 'traitor's moon') on the letter apparently delivered by 'no one' which arrives mysteriously in the night.  

On first setting eyes on the sigil, it immediately fills Catelyn with trepidation: "It will not make us glad," she told him. "There is grief in this message, Ned. I can feel it." -- a sentiment conveying the idea of the blue falcon as a bird of ill omen. So, in actual fact, the first blue falcon we encounter is not Jon but Lysa Arryn who like the letter she has sent is 'not all she seems' and playing her sister false at Littlefinger's direction, another bird who is not all he purports to be, posing with Lysa's complicity as a blue falcon himself (mimicking other birds is what 'mockingbirds' do).  Given that the letter represents the perverted message or false words of two people who do not have the Starks' best interests at heart, we can say that from a certain perspective we have two false birds or blue falcons flying in to Winterfell to interject themselves in the Starks' happy lives.  The blue falcon missive not only 'seemed,' but also indeed proved to be a bad omen, considering all three people who were present in the room upon receipt of the symbolic coffin-shaped box and mocking Myrish lens are dead (Ned, Cat, Luwin), or if not dead but only 'undead,' or whatever the case may be, their lives shattered.  

Thus, this sinister introduction to the 'blue falcon,' taken together with the blue 'traitor's moon' and the meaning of the military idiom 'blue falcon,' as well as the frequently reiterated lesson that honorable men tend to be weighed down and tethered by their honor, preventing rather than facilitating their flight (in other words, rather than soaring like a falcon above the fray, they are more likely to plummet through the Moon Door!); should give us pause, perhaps prompting us to consider whether there could possibly be any irony attached to the words 'as high as honour'?  That said, I do not mean to suggest that all Arryns without exception who ever lived or will live are necessarily dishonorable people -- just that there is 'more to [it] than the seeming' in that House!  

 

As suggested by the blue, white and silver outfit she chose to wear for the court proceedings on that fateful day (wardrobe chosen out for her for a specific purpose by our author GRRM... ), Sansa only really became associated with the 'blue falcon' after the incident on the Trident.  By wearing 'blue falcon' colors instead of Stark colors, together with her strategy of 'sitting on the fence' or 'hedging her bets' in her testimony -- I believe @The Weirwoods Eyes referred to it as striving to be 'neutral' -- she does come across as a bit of a 'turncloak.'  This betrayal of her family, or breaking trust with the pack, is confirmed by her wolf dying violently on the same day at Stark hands (literally Ned's hand, but figuratively Sansa's).  The way I interpret the symbolism, she abandoned or abdicated her direwolf -- so her 'lone wolf' died, making way for the emergence of the little bird (or blue falcon).

 

Quote

Early Sansa is a hopeless liar - she only learns under Lannister persecution. (I will not, not argue the trial scene all over again here,

No problem.  I agree, that subject is very trying!  

 

[Pain killer Jane]

9 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

self-comforting, they are pure survival.

Those are the same thing. Survival is a purely selfish thing. It is born out of the need to provide for one's well-being; physically or emotionally. 

9 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

it was actually very diplomatic of her and shows us an early sign of her ability to read situations and people and act accordingly to best ensure survival.

But take her choice of going to tell Cersei about Ned's plan about smuggling them out of the city. That more accurately shows that Sansa is selfish and her motivation at the trial was primarily selfish. I personally do not believe that Sansa was protecting Arya. I think her entire motivation was protecting Joffrey so that he wouldn't hate her especially since she was the witness to his humiliation. And thus in protecting Joffrey, she was protecting herself. You know why I do not believe that Sansa was protecting Arya during the trial because the last few lines of her visit to the queen after Ned's arrest and being told she has traitor's blood, Martin points out that it wasn't till several hours later that Sansa realized that she hadn't asked about Arya. 

[Pain killer Jane]

12 hours ago, Springwatch said:

I can't get on board any 'blue falcon' theory when our prime example of a falcon is Jon Arryn - the very opposite of a 'bf'. In contrast, early Sansa has little to no connection to falcons, and wears many colours. (Blue is a disaster colour, I agree.)

Perception is everything. Jon had oaths of fealty to his king and oaths to Robert and Ned's families as their guardian. Just because Jon's choice of supporting Robert and Ned is justified (I am not ignoring the fact that Jon's heir was murdered as well that is why I said it was justified), does not stop him from being a blue falcon to Aerys. The issue on choosing to honoring which oaths is seen in Stannis speech about Robert and Aerys during the rebellion, Jon and the Nightswatch which is where we get another dose of the melding of the brothers-in-arms and the blood brothers and the loyalty expected. 

Me saying this does not mean that I think Jon should have kept his oaths to Aerys. Aerys broke the social contract between the crown and its subjects and thus had to pay for it. Blood of tyrants, etc. etc. etc. 

@ravenous reader pointed out that the first instance of a blue falcon is a symbol of betrayal. Both as the initial note of the betrayal of the Lannister and later as the betrayal of a sister by a sister. It is especially worthy to note that House Tully's words are Family, Duty, Honor and therefore makes Lysa's betrayal of Catelyn that much more sinister. Also in relation to Arya and Sansa, it should be noted that Lysa and Catelyn do not have the same relationship as Arya and Sansa and yet one sister did betray the other in both cases. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

13 hours ago, HallowedMarcus said:

 

    I do agree that she somehow knew she had a role to play and that it was connected to her hairnet. She somehow knew something would occur that would allow her to escape King's Landing. True. And she might have guessed Joffrey's downfall but she could have known for sure about it.

    That's why I believe full knowledge does not apply to this situation. By that time the only way to a King to fall was he to be killed or arrested. She knew it meant her escape and she could not have been sure about his death/downfall. As you wrote yourself "...she SOMEHOW has a role to play in WHATEVER goes down by wearing the net. Yes, she guessed, yes she probably figured he might die (downfall) but she could not have been sure about it. She somehow guessed that it would and that her hairnet had a role to play on it; she might even have assumed that her hairnet was poisoned and went on with it anyway but she was not certain about it!

   Guessing and full knowledge/understanding that it would be Joffrey's downfall (death/arrest) are different things.  

I really think you should just give this shit up now mate.  I'm pretty sure I have made my case in defending my choice of words and at this point, it would be best if you just politely dropped it. You are making a fool of yourself. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

12 hours ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Those are the same thing. Survival is a purely selfish thing. It is born out of the need to provide for one's well-being; physically or emotionally. 

But take her choice of going to tell Cersei about Ned's plan about smuggling them out of the city. That more accurately shows that Sansa is selfish and her motivation at the trial was primarily selfish. I personally do not believe that Sansa was protecting Arya. I think her entire motivation was protecting Joffrey so that he wouldn't hate her especially since she was the witness to his humiliation. And thus in protecting Joffrey, she was protecting herself. You know why I do not believe that Sansa was protecting Arya during the trial because the last few lines of her visit to the queen after Ned's arrest and being told she has traitor's blood, Martin points out that it wasn't till several hours later that Sansa realized that she hadn't asked about Arya. 

Yeah, I don't buy into this notion that she is a nasty selfish person. Sorry. The actions she took are self-preservation and that is normal human behaviour.  The stance at the trial is neutral if she didn't care about Arya she could have thrown her under the bus and won massive brownie points with Cersei and Joff.  The girls have a totally normal sibling relationship. They bicker, they are very different but they are sisters. When Ned gives Arya his lecture about family he makes it perfectly clear they are one blood and he expects them to behave accordingly. The quote in my signature is from that speech and it tells us that whatever their differences when winter comes they are better off sticking together. I don't think Arya is going to fail to heed her father's advice on this nor that Sansa doesn't love or have loyalty to her sister. They both reflect upon their relationship in their POV's and the recollections are usually of playing together, or remembering what the other liked to do or eat or was good at. 

[LynnS]

18 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Your valid point about Jon Arryn being considered an honorable man by many (despite defying Aerys, which others may have found dishonorable, as PK has noted) notwithstanding, we're actually first introduced to the image of the blue falcon itself, however, under very different circumstances, when it impresses itself very visually upon the reader as a potentially important symbol in that scene signifying a critical turning point for the Starks way back at the beginning of AGOT Catelyn II, via the ominous blue blob of sealing wax stamped with the moon and falcon (FYI: a 'blue moon' is sometimes called a 'traitor's moon') on the letter apparently delivered by 'no one' which arrives mysteriously in the night.

Fantastic! Once there were two moons in the sky!

Quote

The term has traditionally referred to an "extra" moon, where a year which normally has 12 moons has 13 instead. The "blue moon" reference is applied to the third moon in a season with four moons,^[2] thus correcting the timing of the last month of a season that would have otherwise been expected too early. This happens every two to three years (seven times in the Metonic cycle of 19 years).^[3] The March 1946 issue of Sky & Telescope misinterpreted the traditional definition, which led to the modern colloquial misunderstanding that a blue moon is a second full moon in a single solar calendar month with no seasonal link.

Owing to the rarity of a blue moon, the term "blue moon" is used colloquially to mean a rare event, as in the phrase "once in a blue moon".^[4][5]

 

The Long Night's Moon is the last of the year and the closest to the winter solstice.^[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_moon#Farmers.27_Almanacs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_moon

I wonder what this says about the Tourney at Harrenhall and the year of the False Spring - the season that came too early; a month with a traitor's moon?  

In Dothraki legend, the moon is the wife of the sun which appears to be the case at least with Dany:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi," the Lysene girl said. "Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return."

The two Dothraki girls giggled and laughed. "You are foolish strawhead slave," Irri said. "Moon is no egg. Moon is god, woman wife of sun. It is known."

"It is known," Jhiqui agreed.

 

But what of the Other Moon, the Blue Moon, the 13th Moon?  

Moon is no egg, moon is god:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Bran II

That night Bran prayed to his father's gods for dreamless sleep. If the gods heard, they mocked his hopes, for the nightmare they sent was worse than any wolf dream.

"Fly or die!" cried the three-eyed crow as it pecked at him. He wept and pleaded but the crow had no pity. It put out his left eye and then his right, and when he was blind in the dark it pecked at his brow, driving its terrible sharp beak deep into his skull. He screamed until he was certain his lungs must burst. The pain was an axe splitting his head apart, but when the crow wrenched out its beak all slimy with bits of bone and brain, Bran could see again. What he saw made him gasp in fear. He was clinging to a tower miles high, and his fingers were slipping, nails scrabbling at the stone, his legs dragging him down, stupid useless dead legs. "Help me!" he cried. A golden man appeared in the sky above him and pulled him up. "The things I do for love," he murmured softly as he tossed him out kicking into empty air.

Jon watches Mormont's Raven pecking at an egg:

 

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Jon IX

"Good," Mormont said. "We've seen the dead come back, you and me, and it's not something I care to see again." He ate the egg in two bites and flicked a bit of shell out from between his teeth. "Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him. Any one of his lords bannermen commands more swords than you'll find in all the Night's Watch. Why do you imagine that they need your help? Are you such a mighty warrior, or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?"

Jon had no answer for him. The raven was pecking at an egg, breaking the shell. Pushing his beak through the hole, he pulled out morsels of white and yoke.

 

Bran and the 3EC:
 

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Bran II

She should never have talked about the wolf dreams, Bran thought as Hodor carried him up the steps to his bedchamber. He fought against sleep as long as he could, but in the end it took him as it always did. On this night he dreamed of the weirwood. It was looking at him with its deep red eyes, calling to him with its twisted wooden mouth, and from its pale branches the three-eyed crow came flapping, pecking at his face and crying his name in a voice as sharp as swords.

 

Jon, sharp as swords:
 

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon VIII

"Is your sword sharp, Jon Snow?" asked Qhorin Halfhand across the flickering fire.

A Clash of Kings - Jon VIII

Qhorin's mouth tightened as he followed its flight with his eyes. "Here is as good a place as any to make a stand," he declared. "The mouth of the cave shelters us from above, and they cannot get behind us without passing through the mountain. Is your sword sharp, Jon Snow?"

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XII

"I'll need two boys to take their places."

"How's that?" Tormund scratched his beard. "A hostage is a hostage, seems to me. That big sharp sword o' yours can snick a girl's head off as easy as a boy's. A father loves his daughters too. Well, most fathers."

 

 

Is Jon the moon who kisses the son?
 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

The moon was fat and full. Stars wheeled across a black sky. Rain fell and froze, and tree limbs snapped from the weight of the ice. Bran and Meera made up names for those who sang the song of earth: Ash and Leaf and Scales, Black Knife and Snowylocks and Coals. Their true names were too long for human tongues, said Leaf. Only she could speak the Common Tongue, so what the others thought of their new names Bran never learned.

After the bone-grinding cold of the lands beyond the Wall, the caves were blessedly warm, and when the chill crept out of the rock the singers would light fires to drive it off again. Down here there was no wind, no snow, no ice, no dead things reaching out to grab you, only dreams and rushlight and the kisses of the ravens. And the whisperer in darkness.

 

It's curious that Jiqhui says that the moon is god and not goddess; although she follows up by saying that the moon is the wife of the sun,  a male-female dichotomy.  I think we are talking about two moons, one male and one female. The ice moon and the fire moon to use LML's parlance.  Or ice dragons and fire dragons

In Bran's case, the moon who flew too close to the son (Jon) and cracked open like an egg to birth dragons.

Jon cracks open Othor's moon face.

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Jon VII

The hooded man lifted his pale moon face, and Jon slashed at it without hesitation. The sword laid the intruder open to the bone, taking off half his nose and opening a gash cheek to cheek under those eyes, eyes, eyes like blue stars burning. Jon knew that face. Othor, he thought, reeling back. Gods, he's dead, he's dead, I saw him dead.

 

I've mentioned before the symbolism of Jaqen H'gar placing his hand in the mouth of the weirwood while swearing his oath and the parallel to Othor attempting to force his hand into Jon's mouth. 

It's also very curious that Jon says that he needs two boy to take their places and one wonders if this will come to mean Bran and Arya.

@Feather Crystal  The seven-pointed star is a wheel of time:

Quote

One lunation (an average lunar cycle) is 29.53 days. There are about 365.24 days in a tropical year. Therefore, about 12.37 lunations (365.24 days divided by 29.53 days) occur in a tropical year. In the widely used Gregorian calendar, there are 12 months (the word month is derived from moon^[6]) in a year, and normally there is one full moon each month. Each calendar year contains roughly 11 days more than the number of days in 12 lunar cycles. The extra days accumulate, so every two or three years (seven times in the 19-year Metonic cycle), there is an extra full moon. The extra moon necessarily falls in one of the four seasons, giving that season four full moons instead of the usual three, and, hence, a blue moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonic_cycle#/media/File:CLM_14456_70v71r.jpg