Sansa and the Savage Giant

[Lifestream]

Well technically it has come true with Sweetrobin's doll and Sansa's Winterfell made out of snow, but people don't like it and treat it like a red herring.

 

As, I haven't found a similar instance in the books that I can recall of, I mostly consider the prophecy fulfilled. Not to say that I'm not open to the possibility that it might be what people are saying.

 

Anyway one of the more popular theories is that the giant is LF because of the traditional Baelish sigil (titan's head).

 

A smaller number of people believe it could refer to Tyrion because he has been referred to as a giant in the past, therefore it's used ironically in the prophecy, and savage because if he does return, he will do so as the enemy on the side of the Dothraki who are actually savages.

 

I personally like this theory a lot more as they've both been pitted as enemies against each other, so it'd make sense for them to come to such a point where one has to kill the other at some point in the future. Plus the prophecy/vision of the Ghost of High heart doesn't refer to any sigils at all, so I'd assume this also follows the same pattern. Now my personal beliefs, in the case that the Sweetrobin doll and snow Winterfell case was just a red herring, is that perhaps "same maid" and "giant" are used ironically. As in, despite Tyrion being a dwarf he is referred to as a giant(or a man with a big shadow) mockingly at times and ironically again in this prophecy. Meaning that the maid is referred to as a maid ironically too (as in, when this prophecy is fulfilled Sansa won't really be a maid/virgin girl instead she will have lost her virginity but still be labeled as a maid because she might be hiding it) Sorry if it sounds kind of confusing, but if this part of the vision was ironic for the most part i could understand it being fulfilled.

Quote

" I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief. I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."

 

And I think there's also a third case, which even less people believe, that Sansa will slay Gregor/Robert Strong as he is pretty close to a giant size-wise.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

This might be too speculative right now, but I have a feeling what we'll see if Sansa ends up beheading LF is a scene parallel to Judith Slaying Holofernes as depicted by Artemisia Gentileschi.  How that painting came to be is even more important than what it depicts.  The artist paints herself in the role of Biblical Judith cutting the head off Holofernes, painted in the likeness of her own mentor, Agostino Tassi.  Tassi raped his student and to make a long story short Artemisia endured a long trial, torture, and invasive physical exams only to have Tassi get 2 years in prison for unrelated crimes.  What makes this artists depiction of Judith different from others (painted by men) is that hers is very physical and full of rage, not shying away from spurting blood nor softening the women's violence to make it more feminine.  It's not one to one, but you can see some parallels here to sexual abuse by the mentor figure and injustice against his victim.  Sansa does have that "mad rage" streak when she was pushed too far and ripped the head off the doll.

Biblical Judith has themes of the Israelite heroine who gains the conquering Assyrian army's general, Holofernes's trust.  When he's drunk and vulnerable she and her maidservant cut off his head.  This is a version of a David and Goliath (get it, "giant") story where Judith is no soldier but she defeats a powerful warrior using the tools she has.  LF is not a warrior, but he has made himself vulnerable to Sansa by revealing his blindspot in regards to her. Judith takes the head back to her village and displays it on the town's wall, much like Sansa does with the doll's head.  Once the Assyrian army sees they've lost their general (as Petyr's position of power has depended on the support of Vale lords he has bribed) they are defeated by the Israelites.  Again, this isn't one to one, but I see a lot of Judith in Sansa as potential outcomes.    

   

I love the Judith parallel. I didn't know that Holofernes was given the likeness of Tassi; the bastard definitely deserved to have some appendages cut off!

 

34 minutes ago, Lifestream said:

Plus the prophecy/vision of the Ghost of High heart doesn't refer to any sigils at all, so I'd assume this also follows the same pattern.

She speaks about a woman that was fish, that's Cat and the Tully sigil.

[Lifestream]

11 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

I love the Judith parallel. I didn't know that Holofernes was given the likeness of Tassi; the bastard definitely deserved to have some appendages cut off!

 

She speaks about a woman that was fish, that's Cat and the Tully sigil.

That's a different vision she has though, on a different day(I think). That vision is full of sigil symbolism. The one that OP provided, while again referring to the Red Wedding, has only descriptions of events and people or their appearance.

 

Quote

" I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief. I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."

No sigils appear here, except if it's to accept that the giant is the Baelish sigil.

[Ygrain]

12 hours ago, Lifestream said:

That's a different vision she has though, on a different day(I think). That vision is full of sigil symbolism. The one that OP provided, while again referring to the Red Wedding, has only descriptions of events and people or their appearance.

 

No sigils appear here, except if it's to accept that the giant is the Baelish sigil.

And why should the use of sigils be restricted in any way? 

Besides, it has already been pointed out that the reference to Baelish as a giant is not based solely on his sigil; it ties in with Bran's vision of a looming giant and on the Tyrion parallel of a small man casting a giant shadow.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

17 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

I've listening to the episode and I agree that would be satisfying; however, I believe I read somewhere that George said Widow's Wail is still in KL.  So who knows   There is another sword that gets repeatedly pointed to in her arc and that's Lady Forlorn.  It has a ruby heart in the pommel (as she is still Sansa in her heart) and if you read about its history in TWOIAF it was used to slay a giant of a man, Torgold Tollett, by the First Man king Robar Royce.

The Corbrays were ancient kings that ruled over the Fingers, where Petyr is from.  Petyr's great-grandfather was a sellsword in service to the Corbrays.  The power balance has reversed in the Vale with LF ruling as LP, brokering a marriage for Lyonel Corbray, and Lyn Corbray both resenting LF and working for him out of desperate need for gold.  Lady Forlorn was taken up by a First Man after the Corbray King of the Fingers was slain and used to bring down the laughing giant, or a giant that makes mockery of his opponent.  The blade slices through his hands and presumably cuts off his fingers before cleaving his head.  That could be very thematically appropriate to LF for Sansa (a First Man) to cut off his (clean/un-clean) hands, his fingers (symbolically emasculating him if you think how he got his nickname), before the killing blow.  Keep in mind this whole battle took place at the base of the Giant's Lance, where Sansa is now.  I also think the name Lady Forlorn is more appropriate to Sansa rather than Widow's Wail.  Sansa isn't a widow, nor has her marriage been annulled yet to allow her to remarry.  If Lady Forlorn is used to kill Petyr, I could see it being heavier and harder to wield than the child sized Widow's Wail but not impossible.  In fact, if she tried to swing that sword herself it would probably result in not hitting the target cleanly, more like hacking than cutting straight through.  Northern justice just says she should swing the sword herself, it doesn't necessarily dictate that it should only be done if you are physically capable and trained to behead someone.  It just seems to me that Lady Forlorn has so much potential to be used here primarily because it's already a giant killer.

Ah, I hadn't heard the SPM. Do you have a link? I'm not sold on WW being used. But can see it would be a good fit. I can see her borrowing Long Claw from Jon as an option too. And of course, she may just ask him to do it? But I do like the idea of her doing it herself. 

Lady Forlorn is one of my favourite VS swords. (OK, OK I just love them all if I am honest) and it does have a certain thematic connection as you pointed out. I suppose it all depends upon whose man Lyn Corbray truly is? and of course, if he travels north with them? 

 

 

I also like the references you have made to the painting which you linked to, I was aware of it and the story behind it, and I agree there is a thematic link there too. It is possible that GRRM has taken inspiration from it. After all we know he takes inspiration from multiple historical and fictional accounts. 

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

@Lifestream I think that the chances of the scenario playing out differently to Sansa either killing personally or having killed LF are very very slim. The evidence just does not stack up in the same way for any other outcome. Might the giant be Tyrion. Well, the only evidence to suggest so is him being referenced as a Giant by Shae in her pet name for him, and Moqorro saying he casts a big shadow. Neither of which are related to Sansa; in fact, Tyrion means nothing to her.  He's just a paper shield for her virginity. Gregor Clegane is even less likely, to be honest, it is so improbable that I shan't even bother to explain why. I think we all know that already.   

Tyrion & Sansa have never been pitted against one another as enemies. I fail to see where you have got that idea from, outside of their Houses having been at war they have no enmity personally. He means nothing to her even as a husband. And she isn't important to him either. Tyrion has not personally caused her or her family great pain and loss, he hasn't manipulated her, or tortured and abused her best friend, his actions didn't lead to her sister being lost in the River Lands alone and vulnerable. Nor did he whisper in joffreys ear to execute her father.  He is not important to her. 

As I pointed out earlier, LF's giant imagery goes back to AGOT. He is the stone clad giant in Bran's dream.  The House sigil is a stone Giants severed head, he hides his Machiavellian nature behind his lowly stone associated origins, just as he hides Sansa behind the name Stone. He has loomed large over the girls' lives and caused them both great danger and hardship. He's been the first acts major villain in this story. And he has a very prominent role, particularly in Sansa's story arc. The clues are there in the text, in precisely the manner GRRM's editor has stated he likes to place them. Three progressively more explicit references. And the text itself strongly supports this. From utilising the same descriptor of striding over the walls of Winterfell in the Sansa & Arya chapters which tie yet again LF to the Titan of Braavos (a literal stone giant)  to Sansa's wish fulfilment relating to Janos Slynt laying the path for her head on a spike wish fulfilment, which is echoed through the Snowcastle scene, in Which LF himself likens the Dolls head to a Giants. And onto the cold snow sliding down LF's neck evoking cold steel on his neck. 

As to the grasp that the GoHH's dream does not reference sigils. Well, lets look at green dreams, shall we?

First up: ASOS ARYA IV

Quote

"The old gods stir and will not let me sleep," she heard the woman say. "I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more. Do you have gifts for me, to pay me for my dreams?"

 

 Here we have the GoHH telling her dream to the BWB. In which she references Stannis through the imagery of a shadow = the shadow baby mel produced looked like Stannis, Renly is referenced via the Golden Stag. His sigil. But the dream seems to have been of an actual shadow butchering an actual golden stag. literally. The man without a face references the faceless men but from the first literal image, we can assume the Ghost dreamt of a man with no face, standing on a bridge. And the Crow perched upon his shoulder references Euron "Crows" eye. here we are not seeing his sigil but rather his personal moniker. It is drowned and hanging with seaweed though and this refrences the fact he is Iron Born. The Woman that was a Fish is Cat and she's dreamt of her as an embodiment of her House Sigil. But foresaw the ripped cheeks as well and see's these as red tears and her resurrection is referenced here too.

Then ASOS ARYA VIII

Quote

"I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief," the dwarf woman was saying. "I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow." She turned her head sharply and smiled through the gloom, right at Arya. "You cannot hide from me, child. Come closer, now."

 

 So again let's examine the imagery used. A Wolf Howling in the rain, at first seems to reference Greywind. But this could also be a reference to Robb himself. Who is both known as the young wolf and whose House sigil is a wolf. His grief can be both Grey Winds and Robbs, who it is likely slipped into his wolf after being murdered and thus was also the one howling in the rain before they killed him again. The saddest sound was the little bells, references the needless and sad death of Jingle Bells who not only had no part in the Red Wedding but was so simple that the whole episode was probably deeply distressing for him to witness, and then Catelyn killed him for no reason other than vengeance and desperation.  We know the maid is Sansa due to the revelation that the hairnet she wore to the Purple Wedding contained beads of the Strangler, a poison.

So when she says the same maid again slays a savage giant in a castle made of snow we know to look for a person who can be referenced through giant imagery. There are several. The Umbers would be the most obvious. But the narrative presents us with no reason for Sansa to kill any of that house. So we need to look elsewhere. Could it be Gregor Clegane the Mountain that rides, he's often seen as a giant? But again no. Sansa has no personal ties to him and going by the imagery usage already discussed in the GoHH's dreams if it were him he ought to be represented by a literal mountain. next up, Tyrion, he gets called a Giant by his lover and later on in the books Moqorro says he casts a big shadow in his own vision. But whilst these references a giant Sansa has no reason to kill him, their relationship is not important. Their marriage is nothing but a shield for her virginity.

Then Little Finger whose Giant symbolism has not been obvious to the unobservant reader. But whose sigil none the less is discreetly the Titan of Braavos who is a Giant. Not only is his true sigil a Giant but this Giant is made of stone, which ties us back to the dream Bran had in AGOT relating to his sisters, and the sigil is a severed head. Which ties us into the reference to Sansa wanting her father's killers head on a spike, an image she goes back to again when she tells Joffrey ( A proxy for LF who was the real cause of Ned's execution.) "Maybe my brother will bring me your head." And which is then reinforced again in the Snow Castle scene both through the doll and through that line about the snow sliding down under LF's collar and again when he says that the doll is not the first Giants head to sit atop WF's battlements.  We are then; I am repeating myself I know, but we are again reminded of LF's "giant" status by Sansa telling us strides over the snow castles walls and squats down in the courtyard and then by Arya who tells us the Titan of Braavos could stride right over the walls of WF.  So going by the GoHH's dreams this giant is savage. Little Finger is savage. He's got no heart, no conscience, no soul. He's utterly savage. And his story is inexorably tied to hers, he's manipulated people and events to get his hands on her and he's trying to manipulate her for his own ends, he's destroyed her family, her security and has tortured and abused her beloved best friend. And if he tries to rape her, as is also hinted at she has every reason to fullfill her head on a spike fantasy with him.  

[Lifestream]

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

@Lifestream I think that the chances of the scenario playing out differently to Sansa either killing personally or having killed LF are very very slim. The evidence just does not stack up in the same way for any other outcome. Might the giant be Tyrion. Well, the only evidence to suggest so is him being referenced as a Giant by Shae in her pet name for him, and Moqorro saying he casts a big shadow. Neither of which are related to Sansa; in fact, Tyrion means nothing to her.  He's just a paper shield for her virginity. Gregor Clegane is even less likely, to be honest, it is so improbable that I shan't even bother to explain why. I think we all know that already.   

Tyrion & Sansa have never been pitted against one another as enemies. I fail to see where you have got that idea from, outside of their Houses having been at war they have no enmity personally. He means nothing to her even as a husband. And she isn't important to him either. Tyrion has not personally caused her or her family great pain and loss, he hasn't manipulated her, or tortured and abused her best friend, his actions didn't lead to her sister being lost in the River Lands alone and vulnerable. Nor did he whisper in joffreys ear to execute her father.  He is not important to her. 

As I pointed out earlier, LF's giant imagery goes back to AGOT. He is the stone clad giant in Bran's dream.  The House sigil is a stone Giants severed head, he hides his Machiavellian nature behind his lowly stone associated origins, just as he hides Sansa behind the name Stone. He has loomed large over the girls' lives and caused them both great danger and hardship. He's been the first acts major villain in this story. And he has a very prominent role, particularly in Sansa's story arc. The clues are there in the text, in precisely the manner GRRM's editor has stated he likes to place them. Three progressively more explicit references. And the text itself strongly supports this. From utilising the same descriptor of striding over the walls of Winterfell in the Sansa & Arya chapters which tie yet again LF to the Titan of Braavos (a literal stone giant)  to Sansa's wish fulfilment relating to Janos Slynt laying the path for her head on a spike wish fulfilment, which is echoed through the Snowcastle scene, in Which LF himself likens the Dolls head to a Giants. And onto the cold snow sliding down LF's neck evoking cold steel on his neck. 

As to the grasp that the GoHH's dream does not reference sigils. Well, lets look at green dreams, shall we?

First up: ASOS ARYA IV

 Here we have the GoHH telling her dream to the BWB. In which she references Stannis through the imagery of a shadow = the shadow baby mel produced looked like Stannis, Renly is referenced via the Golden Stag. His sigil. But the dream seems to have been of an actual shadow butchering an actual golden stag. literally. The man without a face references the faceless men but from the first literal image, we can assume the Ghost dreamt of a man with no face, standing on a bridge. And the Crow perched upon his shoulder references Euron "Crows" eye. here we are not seeing his sigil but rather his personal moniker. It is drowned and hanging with seaweed though and this refrences the fact he is Iron Born. The Woman that was a Fish is Cat and she's dreamt of her as an embodiment of her House Sigil. But foresaw the ripped cheeks as well and see's these as red tears and her resurrection is referenced here too.

Then ASOS ARYA VIII

 So again let's examine the imagery used. A Wolf Howling in the rain, at first seems to reference Greywind. But this could also be a reference to Robb himself. Who is both known as the young wolf and whose House sigil is a wolf. His grief can be both Grey Winds and Robbs, who it is likely slipped into his wolf after being murdered and thus was also the one howling in the rain before they killed him again. The saddest sound was the little bells, references the needless and sad death of Jingle Bells who not only had no part in the Red Wedding but was so simple that the whole episode was probably deeply distressing for him to witness, and then Catelyn killed him for no reason other than vengeance and desperation.  We know the maid is Sansa due to the revelation that the hairnet she wore to the Purple Wedding contained beads of the Strangler, a poison.

So when she says the same maid again slays a savage giant in a castle made of snow we know to look for a person who can be referenced through giant imagery. There are several. The Umbers would be the most obvious. But the narrative presents us with no reason for Sansa to kill any of that house. So we need to look elsewhere. Could it be Gregor Clegane the Mountain that rides, he's often seen as a giant? But again no. Sansa has no personal ties to him and going by the imagery usage already discussed in the GoHH's dreams if it were him he ought to be represented by a literal mountain. next up, Tyrion, he gets called a Giant by his lover and later on in the books Moqorro says he casts a big shadow in his own vision. But whilst these references a giant Sansa has no reason to kill him, their relationship is not important. Their marriage is nothing but a shield for her virginity.

Then Little Finger whose Giant symbolism has not been obvious to the unobservant reader. But whose sigil none the less is discreetly the Titan of Braavos who is a Giant. Not only is his true sigil a Giant but this Giant is made of stone, which ties us back to the dream Bran had in AGOT relating to his sisters, and the sigil is a severed head. Which ties us into the reference to Sansa wanting her father's killers head on a spike, an image she goes back to again when she tells Joffrey ( A proxy for LF who was the real cause of Ned's execution.) "Maybe my brother will bring me your head." And which is then reinforced again in the Snow Castle scene both through the doll and through that line about the snow sliding down under LF's collar and again when he says that the doll is not the first Giants head to sit atop WF's battlements.  We are then; I am repeating myself I know, but we are again reminded of LF's "giant" status by Sansa telling us strides over the snow castles walls and squats down in the courtyard and then by Arya who tells us the Titan of Braavos could stride right over the walls of WF.  So going by the GoHH's dreams this giant is savage. Little Finger is savage. He's got no heart, no conscience, no soul. He's utterly savage. And his story is inexorably tied to hers, he's manipulated people and events to get his hands on her and he's trying to manipulate her for his own ends, he's destroyed her family, her security and has tortured and abused her beloved best friend. And if he tries to rape her, as is also hinted at she has every reason to fullfill her head on a spike fantasy with him.  

For me the fact that Tyrion was framed for Joffrey's murder and believes that Sansa did it, as well as LF telling Sansa a revolting tale about Tyrion's first wife to showcase his monstrous nature, is good enough reason to consider that they might turn out to be enemies. And if Tyrion joins Dany, he's the enemy of all Westeros.

It's true, it might not be important to Sansa's arc as her slaying LF would be, but given that they've been put at odds with each other I'd find it disappointing for it to not pan out one way or another. True, Tyrion has not personally harmed Sansa, but if she didn't consider him a Lannister man, she wouldn't be keeping her guard up throughout the whole marriage. She's decided on where she stands regarding Tyrion. he's a Lannister, working for the Lannisters and fighting the Starks.

 

As far as the vision goes again, I'm not a 100% sure. Regardless, for me the biggest hurdle seems to be the inconsistency. So far no vision/prophecy has come out true twice. I don't think you can find a vision that is fulfilled twice.(as in by two different events) And the savage giant one would require just that. It's inconsistent to the rest of the visions if there's one more event that will fulfill it in the future. The incident with Sweetrobin's doll fits 100% percent, but people brush it off because it's mundane. Either way I hope you can see where I'm coming from and why it's harder for me to accept that it will be fulfilled a second time.

 

As far as Bran's dream is concerned that confuses me a bit as well.

Quote

He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armoured like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armour made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

You do have a point when you mention LF's importance in both of the girls' life. But when you look at it, it could be interpreted that the giant was looming over both of the "shadows" and not Sansa and Arya. It's there. The first shadow can easily be identified as Sandor, the second is more ambiguous. It could be Jaime but Oberyn also fits.

If we accept that it's Sandor and Jaime, it's a bit harder to pinpoint the giant's identity. For Sandor it's easy enough to tell that it's Gregor Clegane for obvious reasons. But Jaime has hardly anything to do with him.

If we go with a different choice, Sandor and Oberyn, then Gregor makes perfect sense. Sandor for obvious reasons again and Oberyn who was affected by Gregor's cruelty, first through his sister, and then through his own death.

Gregor/Robert Strong seems to fit the description. He's referred to as a giant, he is called the Mountain which could show relation between him and stone and if that doesn't convince you there's also the fact that he does wear stone.

Quote

Cersei seemed half a child herself beside Ser Gregor. In his armor, the Mountain looked bigger than any man had any right to be. Beneath a long yellow surcoat bearing the three black dogs of Clegane, he wore heavy plate over chainmail, dull grey steel dinted and scarred in battle. Beneath that would be boiled leather and a layer of quilting. A flat-topped greathelm was bolted to his gorget, with breaths around the mouth and nose and a narrow slit for vision. The crest atop it was a stone fist.

Gregor's head also seems to have a significance for Dorne. Cersei sends the skull, after Gregor is poisoned she has Qyburn perform experiments on him to keep him alive, but it's not easy to identify if the skull really belongs to Gregor. though it a big skull.

And the blood reference makes complete sense as well as Gregor is hinted to be kept alive through blood magic.

 

At this point, Gregor is a very likely candidate for the giant in bran's vision and I do believe it's very hard to debate against it. If you want to believe that the giant is Littlefinger then that's up to you, you have a few points on why he could be, but I think the evidence for Gregor are hardly debatable. In the end t's a matter of choice. For me Gregor fits Bran's dream better.

 

4 hours ago, Ygrain said:

And why should the use of sigils be restricted in any way? 

Besides, it has already been pointed out that the reference to Baelish as a giant is not based solely on his sigil; it ties in with Bran's vision of a looming giant and on the Tyrion parallel of a small man casting a giant shadow.

I was only trying to find some logic and consistency in the visions, that's all. If it doesn't convince you then i can't do more.

You can see where I stand on the looming giant inside this very post.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Your idea that Tyrion and Sansa have been placed at odds is very thin. yes he's a Lannister and sh is a Stark, but beyond that, they have no enmity. Tyrion thinks she left him to take the flack for killing Joffrey. but this is a minor thing. I'm not saying they're friends. Just that there is not enough of anything significant between them to imagine that they will have a showdown. 

I don't understand why you think the dream would have to come true twice? The doll is another foreshadowing, as said by GRRM's editor, he likes to foreshadow major events three times each becoming more explicit. The Snowcastle scene is simply the last of these three foreshadowings and therefore the most explicit. Unless you honestly believe the GoHH had a prophetic dream about a spat over a doll? in which case I'm gonna have to admit I'd be questioning your ability to analyse literature.  

your interpretation of Bran's dream is one I have heard before but it is weak. Bran is dreaming about his family. And the dream sets out a basic outline of what is to come for them. he's not dreaming about The Hound. Or Oberyn Martell or Jaime Lannister. The significance of the dream is of these men's roles in the lives of his sisters. Sansa has a definite relationship with the Hound in which he plays the role of protector in KL. he then goes on to play a significant role in Arya's arc, in which he also plays a protector. Then Jaime Lannister vows to Catelyn Stark to return her daughters to her, but upon her death he feels he is honour bound to rescue them, he focusses in on Sansa as he has some vague idea as to her survival. Sending Brienne to seek her out. but Arya is just as much a part of his Oath and I believe if Brienne were to come across Arya she'd feel Jaime's task to her applies to Arya also. The figure who looms over all four in Bran's dream, therefore, has to relate to his sisters and the reason they require these two men's protection.  The notion that it would be Gregor clegane and his presence in the dream is irrelevant to Sansa & Arya but is about Sandor and Oberyn is absurd. The idea that it was Gregor has always been deeply unsatisfactory from a literary standpoint. Whereas LF makes perfect sense! He's been the shady figure looming over them in KL, the cause of their father's downfall, the thing which sent them both reeling into their current situations. His character is deeply entwined with Sansa's in particular so it makes perfect sense from a storyteller's perspective to have her kill him. 

 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 6/29/2017 at 1:51 PM, Chris Mormont said:

I am rereading Storm of Swords and in Arya's chapter in which she returns to High Heart with the Brothers without Banners, the Ghost of High Heart says the following:

" I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief. I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."

Obviously the maid at a feast is Sansa, as she is referring to the poison in her hair net, so that would mean she will slay a savage giant in a castle built of snow.  

Anyone have any theories on what that will be?

Arya, not Sansa, is the the maid that will slay Littlefinger, the savage giant.

[Le Cygne]

On 6/30/2017 at 4:59 AM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

But looming over the four of them in Bran's dream is a giant clad in stone armour, with nothing inside him but thick black blood. This giant is LF.

The giant in Bran's dream sounds like the Mountain:

Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

I agree the giant in the GOHH's dream is LF.

[Ygrain]

7 hours ago, Lifestream said:

You can see where I stand on the looming giant inside this very post.

But the giant looming over the other two figures doesn't necessarily signify his impact on them, it can mean that his impact over the Starks in the vision is much bigger than that of the other two figures, and that fits LF, not Gregor. LF is the one who drove the Starks into the conflict with the Lannisters, who delayed Ned's departure from KL and who betrayed him (and if it turns out that he coaxed Joff into havin gNed beheaded, I won't be surprised), and thus directly caused all of Arya and Sansa's misery.

[Le Cygne]

I think it's Sandor and Jaime in Bran's dream.

The armor (with the stone fist, a Mountain is made of stone), the helm with nothing inside but black blood, the one looming sounds like the Mountain. Those are pretty strong visual clues.

That he's looming over them could be because he's Tywin's/Cersei's henchman. The one who does their dirty deeds. He's their stone fist.

Nothing really fits perfectly for that one, I agree.

[Lost Melnibonean]

9 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

The giant in Bran's dream sounds like the Mountain:

Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

I agree the giant in the GOHH's dream is LF.

Me too. 

The first two were clearly Sandor and Jaime. The third proved to be more enigmatic. . .

Most readers assumed that the third was Gregor. His transformation in the Black Cells supported that conclusion.

But other readers settled on Petyr after learning about the sigil of House Baelish. Although Petyr was a small man who adopted the mockingbird as his personal sigil, the sigil of his house was the stone head of the Titan of Braavos.

Quote

The device painted on the shield was one Sansa did not know; a grey stone head with fiery eyes, upon a light green field. “My grandfather’s shield,” Petyr explained when he saw her gazing at it. “His own father was born in Braavos and came to the Vale as a sellsword in the hire of Lord Corbray, so my grandfather took the head of the Titan as his sigil when he was knighted.”

This interpretation of Petyr as a giant tied in to the presumption that the Ghost of High Heart foresaw Sansa slaying Petyr, the savage giant.

Moreover, Petyr proved to be a much graver threat to Bran’s father and sisters than either Sandor or Jaime, both of whom eventually attempted to aid the Stark girls.

But I think this is the clincher... When the Hound and the Kingslayer faced each other during the Hand’s tourney Littlefinger sat above them in the viewing stands wagering on the outcome... looming over them.

[Le Cygne]

Well, I don't think it has to be the same giant in both dreams. So that's why I think it's the Mountain in Bran's dream, because he fits the description better.

Bran's dreams seem to be about the events surrounding the death of Lady, and the aftermath.

Ned pleads to Robert to spare Lady. Sansa crying, Arya watching in silence. Sandor and Jaime at first doing Cersei's bidding, then protecting them from her. ("Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it.")

And... the Mountain made of stone. He wasn't there, but his shadow was soon to be looming over the Riverlands, with what he had been ordered to do by Tywin. He's not a great fit, but...

Bran specifically refers to armor, and a mountain is made of stone, and his helm has a stone fist, and the helm is the clincher, there's nothing inside, and black blood often refers to a festering wound.

Also many other examples of the way he uses looming refer to physical height in reference to the others. And Littlefinger is a short man (Catelyn and Sansa both refer to him as short, for example).

That last one doesn't fit well in any case, but it's the specificity of the visual description that makes me think it's the Mountain. Could be someone else, though.

He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But I think this is the clincher... When the Hound and the Kingslayer faced each other during the Hand’s tourney Littlefinger sat above them in the viewing stands wagering on the outcome... looming over them.

Nice catch!

One thing against Gregor as the giant: it's damn obvious, which makes me think it is a sort of a red herring. We have this dream, then we have this giant of a man, savage and bloodthirsty - but he fails to fit into the pattern of the other two figures whose connection with Ned and the girls is way more personal. And then we have this thing with little men casting great shadows. LF fits narratively, which makes him the likeliest candidate for me.

[LynnS]

7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Me too. 

The first two were clearly Sandor and Jaime. The third proved to be more enigmatic. . .

Most readers assumed that the third was Gregor. His transformation in the Black Cells supported that conclusion.

But other readers settled on Petyr after learning about the sigil of House Baelish. Although Petyr was a small man who adopted the mockingbird as his personal sigil, the sigil of his house was the stone head of the Titan of Braavos.

This interpretation of Petyr as a giant tied in to the presumption that the Ghost of High Heart foresaw Sansa slaying Petyr, the savage giant.

Moreover, Petyr proved to be a much graver threat to Bran’s father and sisters than either Sandor or Jaime, both of whom eventually attempted to aid the Stark girls.

But I think this is the clincher... When the Hound and the Kingslayer faced each other during the Hand’s tourney Littlefinger sat above them in the viewing stands wagering on the outcome... looming over them.

This is a really good catch!  I like the notion that Arya is the maiden with serpents in her hair, dripping venom from her teeth.  I'm expecting a twist here as well.  It invokes the image of Medusa:
 

Quote

 

- a monster, a Gorgon, generally described as a winged human female with living venomous snakes in place of hair. Gazers upon her hideous face would turn to stone

- Jane Ellen Harrison argues that "her potency only begins when her head is severed, and that potency resides in the head; she is in a word a mask with a body later appended... the basis of the Gorgoneion is a cultus object, a ritual mask

 

Venom pours from Arya's mouth on a daily basis when she invokes her death list.  I'm still out on the identity of the stone giant and whether or not this is LF or Robert Strong.  The giant of Bran's vision and the giant of GoHH dream might be two different characters.  

A mask with a body later appended, fits my notion of Robert Strong, since his head was sent to Dorne and replaced with another.  A subversion of the faceless men and an abomination.
 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Cersei I

"And who would you have him name?"

She did not have a ready answer. My champion will need a new name as well as a new face. "Qyburn will know. Trust him in this. You and I have had our differences, Uncle, but for the blood we share and the love you bore my father, for Tommen's sake and the sake of his poor maimed sister, do as I ask you. Go to Lord Qyburn on my behalf, bring him a white cloak, and tell him that the time has come."

 

We're also give to understand that Robert Strong is invincible... that no man can kill him.   That sets Arya up nicely in her guise as nobody.  The tall tower covered in snow can easily be Kingslanding when winter arrives in full force. 

If this is true, then the vision of the purple wedding, might actually be something else as well, something that hasn't occurred yet if Arya is involved.

I don't recall if Arya was sitting with Sansa and LF at the tournament.  She does know Sandor's story as told by LF.  Perhaps Arya is the stone giant, the Titanesse of Braavos herself.

http://www.theoi.com/Titan/Titanides.html

[Lost Melnibonean]

7 hours ago, LynnS said:

This is a really good catch!  I like the notion that Arya is the maiden with serpents in her hair, dripping venom from her teeth.  I'm expecting a twist here as well.  It invokes the image of Medusa:
 

Venom pours from Arya's mouth on a daily basis when she invokes her death list.  I'm still out on the identity of the stone giant and whether or not this is LF or Robert Strong.  The giant of Bran's vision and the giant of GoHH dream might be two different characters.  

A mask with a body later appended, fits my notion of Robert Strong, since his head was sent to Dorne and replaced with another.  A subversion of the faceless men and an abomination.
 

We're also give to understand that Robert Strong is invincible... that no man can kill him.   That sets Arya up nicely in her guise as nobody.  The tall tower covered in snow can easily be Kingslanding when winter arrives in full force. 

If this is true, then the vision of the purple wedding, might actually be something else as well, something that hasn't occurred yet if Arya is involved.

I don't recall if Arya was sitting with Sansa and LF at the tournament.  She does know Sandor's story as told by LF.  Perhaps Arya is the stone giant, the Titanesse of Braavos herself.

http://www.theoi.com/Titan/Titanides.html

Now we are two.

[LynnS]

1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Now we are two.

LOL! 

[Le Cygne]

Bran's dream goes like this:

He saw his mother sitting alone in a cabin, looking at a bloodstained knife on a table in front of her, as rowers pulled at their oars and Ser Rodrik leaned on a rail, shaking and heaving. A storm was gathering ahead of them, a vast dark roaring lashed by lightning, but somehow they did not see it.

This sounds like Catelyn and Rodrick heading to KL, and the storm is the consequences.

He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them.

This sounds like the events surrounding Lady's death. Ned pleading to Robert for Lady's life. Sansa crying. Arya was quiet because she fought with Joffrey, and worried she was to blame (Ned reassured her she was not).

And the shadows could be said to be around Ned, Sansa, and Arya, all of them. He could be setting the scene, then talking about the shadows. He says the shadows are all around them, then goes on to describe the shadows.

One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

So around them are three shadows. Over two (who many think are Sandor and Jaime) is another armored figure. Here he specifically says "over them both" (he didn't say around them both before, this time he does).

The most common guess for the third shadow with armor is the Mountain. And GRRM is actually a pretty direct author, even when he's using figurative language. Such language is meant to enhance understanding, not confuse readers.

And because he's talking about armor for Sandor and Jaime, and he describes their armor in terms used in the book, there's a good chance he means armor for the third as well. And he describes the armor in terms used in the book for the Mountain's armor.

And the Mountain in the Riverlands is what's ahead. And both Sandor and Jaime (as well as Arya and ultimately them all) will deal with the consequences of his actions there. He acts as an agent for the Lannisters, and is a destructive force for many there.

So Bran refers to a specific event, then looks a bit beyond to see the consequences in both cases, and the Mountain fits well as the third armored figure in his dream. So that's one dream, and there's nothing to suggest it has anything to do with the GOHH's dream.

As for the GOHH's dream, the language in the snow castle scene suggests Littlefinger is the giant:

When he had enough, he stepped over both walls with a single long stride and squatted on his heels in the middle of the yard... "May I come into your castle, my lady?"

Sansa was wary. "Don't break it. Be . . ."

". . . gentle?" He smiled. "Winterfell has withstood fiercer enemies than me. It is Winterfell, is it not?"...

It was more than Sansa could stand. "Robert, stop that." Instead he swung the doll again, and a foot of wall exploded. She grabbed for his hand but she caught the doll instead. There was a loud ripping sound as the thin cloth tore. Suddenly she had the doll's head, Robert had the legs and body, and the rag-and-sawdust stuffing was spilling in the snow.

Lord Robert's mouth trembled. "You killlllllllled him," he wailed....

"It was my fault." Sansa showed them the doll's head. "I ripped his doll in two. I never meant to, but . . ."

"His lordship was destroying the castle," said Petyr.

"A giant," the boy whispered, weeping. "It wasn't me, it was a giant hurt the castle.

LF strides over the castle walls, saying may I come into your castle, and Sansa says don't break the castle (her), the subtext is sexual. Sweetrobin makes it clear the giant (LF) is the one who hurt the castle (Sansa). At some point, perhaps Sansa just can't take it anymore, and slays him.

Also I always thought Sweetrobin might help Sansa kill Littlefinger in some way.

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

We're also give to understand that Robert Strong is invincible... that no man can kill him.   That sets Arya up nicely in her guise as nobody.  The tall tower covered in snow can easily be Kingslanding when winter arrives in full force. 

If this is true, then the vision of the purple wedding, might actually be something else as well, something that hasn't occurred yet if Arya is involved.

I don't recall if Arya was sitting with Sansa and LF at the tournament.  She does know Sandor's story as told by LF.  Perhaps Arya is the stone giant, the Titanesse of Braavos herself.

Arya does already have an established history with encountering the Mountain (and/or his men) at Harrenhal and in the fight where Yoren is killed.  She also faced some of his men at the tavern with the Hound.  I do see her returning to the Riverlands when she comes back to Westeros as people from her arc are already there:  the BwB, Gendry, unCat, Nymeria.  There's also the addition of Brienne and Jaime to the mix there, who had the mission of finding the Stark daughters.  I'm more inclined to lean toward the Arya having another encounter with the Mountain because of this history.  The BwB formed around hunting the Mountain to begin with.  It makes good narrative sense.  

I still see LF as Sansa's giant.  She has the history of encounters with him, she's the one that looks like Cat reborn, she's his blindspot, she is trapped in a position with him while also exploiting some of his trust in her.  I still feel it makes the most narrative sense that Sansa is set up to deal with LF in the end. 

Therefore, why can't the GoHH's prophecy and Bran's vision be about 2 respective giants and the symbolism just happens to overlap with both?  I'm thinking it doesn't have to be either / or.  The unexpected way of the prophecy working itself out is that it works more than one way.   

Oh and Arya was not present at the tourney.  Arya doesn't know about the Hound's story.  She never had an encounter with LF and Sandor only told Sansa himself.  No one else knows the whole story.