Livesundersink Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 In Brans pov where he is pushed from the tower we here the Cersei wanted Jaime to be appointed HoTK instead of Ned, this struck me as rather odd why would she want Jaime to be appointed and not Tywin? who we know is a master politician and would do far better than Jaime. I am currently not in possession of my copies of the books so is anyone able to offer insight to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Because if jaime were HotK they would be in a better position to remove robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckram Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Livesundersink said: Tywin? who we know is a master politician and would do far better than Jaime. She's delusional. In AFFC, Kevan was notoriously the best candidate for Hand but, still, Cersei offered to the crippled Jaime first. However, one can assume that the reason she skipped her own father (and not just the best candidate) was that maybe she tought Jaime needed to accomplish something big in order to clean (or lighten) the kingslayer stain out of his bio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elder brother jonothor dar Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Cersei is not as dumb as people give her credit for, Jaime is wrapped round her little finger Tywin on the other hand well just look at how things were going to pan out once Tywin took charge. Cersei married off and kept well clear of her kids due to get negative influence, and how Cersei ruled when she was regent and not accountable, plotting and scheming turning into Nero killing off anybody that was a threat, surrounding herself with sycophants and bed warmers. She looks up to her father and wants to be him but from her point of view Jaime is a far better option one where she can weild the power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 She controls Jaime while she doesn't control Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said: She controls Jaime while she doesn't control Tywin. This but also because if Tywin was the Hand they couldn't keep having intimate relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said: This but also because if Tywin was the Hand they couldn't keep having intimate relationship. I'm curious, @The Doctor's Consort. Why ever not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Prof. Cecily said: I'm curious, @The Doctor's Consort. Why ever not? What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Just now, The Doctor's Consort said: What do you mean? Sorry to be unclear! I refer to what you wrote earlier: 16 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said: This but also because if Tywin was the Hand they couldn't keep having intimate relationship. I don't quite understand why these two couldn't continue carrying on, even with Lord Tywin as Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, Prof. Cecily said: Sorry to be unclear! I refer to what you wrote earlier: I don't quite understand why these two couldn't continue carrying on, even with Lord Tywin as Hand. Now I understand what you mean. I said that they couldn’t be together because Tywin would had understood what was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I think this is one of the examples of how the books evolved in GRRM's mind as he was writing them. We know from the original outline that Jaime was originally envisioned as being power-hungry, but this is something that evidently changed, since it became clear by ASOS that Jaime loathes politics and doesn't aspire to wear a crown. Robert threatens Ned to resume being Hand later on in the book by saying he'll "pin the damned thing on Jaime Lannister" if he doesn't, but in retrospect this is rather odd, since we as the readers learn later on that this is not something that Jaime would ever want. Of course, it also has to do with trust. At this point, Cersei and Jaime are joined at the hip. He's the first person she turns to whenever she's afraid or unsure, and in this instance the thought of having Ned as Hand unsettles her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said: Now I understand what you mean. I said that they couldn’t be together because Tywin would had understood what was going on. That's interesting. What makes you think Lord Tywin wasn't already perfectly aware of the twincest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Just now, Prof. Cecily said: That's interesting. What makes you think Lord Tywin wasn't already perfectly aware of the twincest? Because we have no clue that he knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 21 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said: Because we have no clue that he knew. He knew about the letters being circulated by Stannis, don't you think? Quote "I want these letters burned, every one," Cersei declared. "No hint of this must reach my son's ears, or my father's." "I imagine Father's heard rather more than a hint by now," Tyrion said dryly. "Doubtless Stannis sent a bird to Casterly Rock, and another to Harrenhal. As for burning the letters, to what point? The song is sung, the wine is spilled, the wench is pregnant. And this is not as dire as it seems, in truth." A Clash of Kings - Tyrion III Quote "So long as you remain unwed, you allow Stannis to spread his disgusting slander," Lord Tywin told his daughter. "You must have a new husband in your bed, to father children on you." A Storm of Swords - Tyrion III In any case, Lord Tywin was pragmatically putting damage control in place. He never openly accuses either his son or daughter of incest, obviously. Lord Tywin is much too canny to be provoked in to saying aloud what would strip his grandson Tommen of the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 15 minutes ago, Prof. Cecily said: He knew about the letters being circulated by Stannis, don't you think? A Clash of Kings - Tyrion III A Storm of Swords - Tyrion III In any case, Lord Tywin was pragmatically putting damage control in place. He never openly accuses either his son or daughter of incest, obviously. Lord Tywin is much too canny to be provoked in to saying aloud what would strip his grandson Tommen of the IT. Why he should believe Stannis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 23 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said: Why he should believe Stannis? Tywin knew why Stannis was writing these letters. To discredit Joffrey. But seeing the two with his own eyes could change his mind. No, in fact Cersei didn't want her father in the RK. Because she knew she would not be in charge anymore. Only the little girl of Big Daddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Ckram said: She's delusional. In AFFC, Kevan was notoriously the best candidate for Hand but, still, Cersei offered to the crippled Jaime first. However, one can assume that the reason she skipped her own father (and not just the best candidate) was that maybe she tought Jaime needed to accomplish something big in order to clean (or lighten) the kingslayer stain out of his bio. Nah, Cersei doesn't care about that. In fact, she doesn't even care about Jaime... Cersei cares about Cersei. She wanted Jaime as Hand because it would not only make it easier for her to get rid of Robert, but also b/c at that point she had Jaime wrapped around her finger. Jaime as Hand means she is in full control once Robert is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 35 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said: Why he should believe Stannis? I think you've asked the wrong question. It's not a question of believing Stannis and I'll explain why. A large part of AGoT is dedicated to a murder mystery: who killed Jon Arryn? One possible motive for the murder in the investigation of this crime is that of Jon Arryn's discovery/ deduction of the real parentage of the royal children. Quote In his chambers he stripped off his council silks and sat for a moment with the book while he waited for Jory to arrive. The Lineages and Histories of the Great Houses of the Seven Kingdoms, With Descriptions of Many High Lords and Noble Ladies and Their Children, by Grand Maester Malleon. Pycelle had spoken truly; it made for ponderous reading. Yet Jon Arryn had asked for it, and Ned felt certain he had reasons. There was something here, some truth buried in these brittle yellow pages, if only he could see it. But what? The tome was over a century old. Scarcely a man now alive had yet been born when Malleon had compiled his dusty lists of weddings, births, and deaths. A Game of Thrones - Eddard VI Quote He gave Ned a sideways glance. "I've also heard whispers that Robert got a pair of twins on a serving wench at Casterly Rock, three years ago when he went west for Lord Tywin's tourney. Cersei had the babes killed, and sold the mother to a passing slaver. Too much an affront to Lannister pride, that close to home." Ned Stark grimaced. Ugly tales like that were told of every great lord in the realm. He could believe it of Cersei Lannister readily enough … but would the king stand by and let it happen? The Robert he had known would not have, but the Robert he had known had never been so practiced at shutting his eyes to things he did not wish to see. "Why would Jon Arryn take a sudden interest in the king's baseborn children?" A Game of Thrones - Eddard IX Quote The seed is strong, Jon Arryn had cried on his deathbed, and so it was. All those bastards, all with hair as black as night. Grand Maester Malleon recorded the last mating between stag and lion, some ninety years ago, when Tya Lannister wed Gowen Baratheon, third son of the reigning lord. Their only issue, an unnamed boy described in Malleon's tome as a large and lusty lad born with a full head of black hair, died in infancy. Thirty years before that a male Lannister had taken a Baratheon maid to wife. She had given him three daughters and a son, each black-haired. No matter how far back Ned searched in the brittle yellowed pages, always he found the gold yielding before the coal. "A dozen years," Ned said. "How is it that you have had no children by the king?" She lifted her head, defiant. "Your Robert got me with child once," she said, her voice thick with contempt. "My brother found a woman to cleanse me. He never knew. A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII Anyway. The parentage of Cersei's children is there to be seen. Lord Tywin doesn't have to "believe Stannis". He simply has to see the evidence before his eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 For what it's worth, I think Tywin knew about the twincest on some level even if he didn't admit it to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I think this is one of the examples of how the books evolved in GRRM's mind as he was writing them. We know from the original outline that Jaime was originally envisioned as being power-hungry, but this is something that evidently changed, since it became clear by ASOS that Jaime loathes politics and doesn't aspire to wear a crown. Jaime already showed his disinterest in politics in that dialogue with Cersei that Bran overheard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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