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NBA 2017: Fleecing the East


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Quoting the all time list also isn't exactly representative, since it's an average not a cumulative total. Blake Griffin is higher than Kevin Garnett because Blake Griffin is in his prime and KG has like 5 washed up seasons at the end of his career averaged in. Same with Brooke Lopez at 49. Yao is way up there because it's an average. He was a force when he was on the court.

 

There are stat stuffers like Jokic who the metric probably overrates, but overall it does a damn good job.

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I really don't get the Curry hate. Sure, the media provides a double standard for him that most other athletes don't enjoy, but that's not his fault. He's exactly my kind of athlete. Maximum cockiness on the court and humble off of it. 

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10 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Also, editing on my phone doesn't seem to work, but lol @ Yao being a force. He only averaged 10 or more rebounds twice and more than 20 points 3 times. I'll give him props for the high fg% though.

Dude was all NBA 5 times in his 7 year career.

 

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I really don't get the Curry hate. Sure, the media provides a double standard for him that most other athletes don't enjoy, but that's not his fault. He's exactly my kind of athlete. Maximum cockiness on the court and humble off of it. 

 

He's a fucking douche on the court. It's one thing to talk shit, it's another thing to just laughably attempt to swagger around at basically all times on the court. His showboating on the court has even seeped into his game and started to disrupt his effectiveness. Draymond gets all the blame for getting himself suspended, but lets not forget the Curry behind the back pass turnover in game 7 of the finals last year. That was a killer. He had a ton more plays like that in the playoffs this year, although they were so good it didn't matter.

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1 hour ago, Red Tiger said:

So what? It was all-nba second team twice and all-nba third team thrice, which you conveniently left out.

 

I didn't conveniently leave anything out. There is one spot for a C on the all NBA team, which means he was a top 3 center for his 5 year prime. His PER is very high because all of his seasons were prime. He never declined because he got hurt and was out of the league. Guys who were better than him are lower on the list because they had bad years at the end of their career that dragged the average down.

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1 hour ago, sperry said:

He's a fucking douche on the court. It's one thing to talk shit, it's another thing to just laughably attempt to swagger around at basically all times on the court. 

And I love it. The best part of professional wrestling isn't the actual wrestling. It's the theater. The NBA, NFL and MLB would all benefit if they had more of that. 

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3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And I love it. The best part of professional wrestling isn't the actual wrestling. It's the theater. The NBA, NFL and MLB would all benefit if they had more of that. 

You are in a small minority that feels that way.

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5 hours ago, sperry said:

 

I didn't conveniently leave anything out. There is one spot for a C on the all NBA team, which means he was a top 3 center for his 5 year prime. His PER is very high because all of his seasons were prime. He never declined because he got hurt and was out of the league. Guys who were better than him are lower on the list because they had bad years at the end of their career that dragged the average down.

Fully aware of this. I am also aware of the fact that

1. Yao played in a time where the Center position was lacking.

2. Shaq was often injured and aging.

3. More and more of the best big men played under the PF label

4. Many good centers didn't score a lot of points, which means quite a bit for all-nba nods and were more used for rebounding and blocking, which is less valued

So yeah, impressive

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6 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Fully aware of this. I am also aware of the fact that

1. Yao played in a time where the Center position was lacking.

2. Shaq was often injured and aging.

3. More and more of the best big men played under the PF label

4. Many good centers didn't score a lot of points, which means quite a bit for all-nba nods and were more used for rebounding and blocking, which is less value

So yeah, impressive

 

Yao is pretty universally regarded as a great player during his prime. But whatever, you don't really seem to be interested in that fact.

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1 hour ago, sperry said:

Yao is pretty universally regarded as a great player during his prime. But whatever, you don't really seem to be interested in that fact.

Ah, this lazy approach. Nowhere did I say "Yao was not great" (plenty of HOFers were guys that weren't exactly gamechangers, just very good for a long time), the original point was the value of PER, it's kingsized flaws and every time you present an argument you leave out the background, kinda like what that stat does.

"He was a force" true from a certain point of view, but we were talking about PER and how it measures some things and undervalues others. Hence me pointing to his rebounding averages (which PER barely values, though it kinda matters for a team's main big-man) and his points (which it does, maybe a little too much).

"Yao was one of the best centers around and that's why he got All-nba" true, but leaving out there weren't a lot of great centers at that time.

"He was all-nba" again true, mostly in lesser 3rd and some 2nd teams

But yes I will leave this discussion. I will not make it worse for other people in this thread.

 

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2 hours ago, sperry said:

You are in a small minority that feels that way.

I agree, but I think that's largely because sports fans have been conditioned to a certain type of behavior from their athletes. If more fans were open to viewing sports in a different way, I think they'd enjoy it a lot more. 

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17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I agree, but I think that's largely because sports fans have been conditioned to a certain type of behavior from their athletes. If more fans were open to viewing sports in a different way, I think they'd enjoy it a lot more. 

 

We're conditioned not to like douche bags, because we've all met aggressively cocky pricks in real life. And people don't like them there either.

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1 hour ago, sperry said:

 

We're conditioned not to like douche bags, because we've all met aggressively cocky pricks in real life. And people don't like them there either.

Again, I'm talking about this through the lens of a professional wrestler. I'm assuming everyone's in on it and there are no hard feelings. That would make sports a lot more fun. 

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He's a fucking douche on the court. It's one thing to talk shit, it's another thing to just laughably attempt to swagger around at basically all times on the court

So, f'n what? Feom what i recall @sperry you was an athlete yourself, correct? Especially in basketball (which i was decent, turned down a partial scholarship to a DII school), you HAVE to think your that baddest mofo onnthe court. All the great ones have that swag, they just show it in different ways. My niece is very good, being looked at by DI schools at the moment. She is a soph this year, started as a frosh. Can play all 5 positions. But, what she lacks, and ive told her and her personal trainer and AAU coach, is that she needs that swag. That she is the best player on the court at all times. She plays too nice. So, when i see a guy like Steph showing swag, its part of the reason he got where he got. In BBall you need it.

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52 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

 

So, f'n what? Feom what i recall @sperry you was an athlete yourself, correct? Especially in basketball (which i was decent, turned down a partial scholarship to a DII school), you HAVE to think your that baddest mofo onnthe court. All the great ones have that swag, they just show it in different ways. My niece is very good, being looked at by DI schools at the moment. She is a soph this year, started as a frosh. Can play all 5 positions. But, what she lacks, and ive told her and her personal trainer and AAU coach, is that she needs that swag. That she is the best player on the court at all times. She plays too nice. So, when i see a guy like Steph showing swag, its part of the reason he got where he got. In BBall you need it.

 

That attitude can manifest itself in many ways. Being a douche is not the only way to have "swag."  Not a fan of Durant for other reasons, but he's not a douche.

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Excellent article on Darko's rise, fall and rebirth as a new man. I can't wait for his 30 for 30 this weekend:

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/20211833/nba-bust-darko-milicic-finds-success-back-home-serbia

ETA:

I've always maintained that Darko is the biggest legitimate bust in modern NBA history. Bowie had the bad luck of being taken before the best player ever, but he still had a respectable career. Oden was an injury bust. Bennett was truly dreadful, but he should have never been a top 5 pick, let alone the number one overall pick. Brown was also pretty bad, but he had a long career and that draft wasn't that strong. Olowokandi was probably the second worst bust. But Darko stands above them all in my book. He was terrible, has no excuses for his failures (injuries, team, etc.), was deserving of being the third pick in the draft (Melo should have obviously gone second), the other four top five picks in his class are all Hall of Famers, and he self-destructed in a truly tragic way. All that said, it's nice to see that he's at peace with his life.

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3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

And talk about douchitude...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/watch-lebron-posts-cryptic-workout-video-with-screaming-lyrics-and-crazy-laughter/

 

/Not sure how you're supposed to react to this stuff outside of head scratching and ridicule. It's just so 11th grade, ya know?

Still remember this Cersei-level pettiness.

 

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