NBA 2017: Fleecing the East

[briantw]

3 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Let's not go nuts.  The Celtics were undeniably a good team.  Even if they were weaker than most conference finalists, they were the second best team in the East, and at worst the 5th best team in the league (after GSW, CLE, SA and HOU). 

I think he meant that Thomas can't be anything more than the 6th man on a title contender.  And while the Celtics may have been the first seed in the East, no one but Boston fans legitimately thought that team was a contender.  The Cavs had the worse record and were favored, and for good reason.

I don't have anything particular against Thomas, either.  He's a fine player, and he's done really well for himself despite his physical limitations.  I just don't consider him to be the kind of guy who can win you titles.  Even when comparing him to other point guards who are also shit defenders, it's just so much easier to game plan for Thomas because of his size.

[sperry]

30 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Let's not go nuts.  The Celtics were undeniably a good team.  Even if they were weaker than most conference finalists, they were the second best team in the East, and at worst the 5th best team in the league (after GSW, CLE, SA and HOU). 

 

 

I think they would have been a 6 or 7 seed in the West, or a 4 or 5 seed in a normal season with balanced conferences. They were fine. But I think IT is not an exciting player, and a lot of the hype is distorted due to a two month stretch where he put up like 35 points a game on 50% shooting, which is almost assuredly anomalous. Long story short, I'm letting him walk if I'm Boston at hte end of the season.

[Jaime L]

I was really impressed with Avery Bradley in that Celtics-Wizards series. Beyond the two games he unexpectedly blew up, it was more how his utterly tenacious D exhausted John Wall and made him less effective late in games. There's so many elite PGs now, none of whom at all able to check his opposite number, that having a guy like Bradley is a big asset. He also shot nearly 40% from 3 last season which was about as good as Jae Crowder and much better than Marcus Smart. Overall ability-wise he was the most useful of the 3, so it's surprising he was the one moved. But he's also the smallest and will command the largest contract so I get it.

Marcus Morris is a decent player. I thought he was great the one game he played in that Celtics-Wizards series. My main issue with him is he's 6'9" but only gets 4.6 rebounds a game. And the Celtics already can't rebound. Maybe the size upgrade from Avery Bradley (6'2") to Gordon Hayward (6'8") in the starting lineup will make up the difference...except Bradley averaged more RPG last year than Hayward. Probably because his team needed that from him much more than Hayward, but still.  

The other issue is the Celtics are overloaded with SFs now. Hayward, Tatum, Crowder, Brown, Morris. Can play two at one time using small ball 4s a lot, but again, rebounding. Can any of these guys play the 2 and defend opposing teams guards? Otherwise it's all Marcus Smart and the kind of good defense/no shooting trade off that comes with him. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I'd let him walk too, but IDK if they can because they passed up on Fultz. Still doesn't make a ton of sense to me. 

Also, I thought Giannis only had three years left on his deal. Having that fourth year does make him untouchable. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Marcus Morris is a decent player. I thought he was great the one game he played in that Celtics-Wizards series.

Well played sir. 

[briantw]

2 hours ago, sperry said:

I think they would have been a 6 or 7 seed in the West, or a 4 or 5 seed in a normal season with balanced conferences. They were fine. But I think IT is not an exciting player, and a lot of the hype is distorted due to a two month stretch where he put up like 35 points a game on 50% shooting, which is almost assuredly anomalous. Long story short, I'm letting him walk if I'm Boston at hte end of the season.

The East was about on par with the West record-wise last year.  The main difference was the top two teams in the West had significantly better records than any other team in the NBA.  That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the Cavs could have won 55+ games if they had tried every night.  They just didn't care enough to.

The Celtics got their record last year because they were a team that tried as hard as they could to win every game, and teams like that tend to do well during the regular season because a lot of teams take nights off or rest their top players.  I think the Celtics would have been more or less as good in the West as they were in the East because they'd still be going balls to the wall every night while other teams do not.

[Rhom]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Well played sir. 

Indeed.  I'd been thinking all day on some way to seamlessly integrate that theory into a comment and was never happy enough to post anything.  

I give this a 9/10.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Lonzo...a star was born tonight...or not. I guarantee I will be telling you, "I told you so!", a year from now. Feel bad for all these hopeful Laker fans.

[Rhom]

7 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Lonzo...a star was born tonight...or not. I guarantee I will be telling you, "I told you so!", a year from now. Feel bad for all these hopeful Laker fans.

You and every Kentucky fan out there.  Lonzo never impressed in the biggest of games.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Its nauseating the way the media keeps shoving Lonzo's motor lipped dad down our throats at every chance. I just dont care what this guy has to say about the NBA, and I especially dont care to see him being quoted and interviewed every other day, he's just not that interesting.

Very pleased with the Avery Bradley trade from Detroits end.

[KingintheNorth4]

Fultz leaves the game after injuring his ankle. The 76ers are cursed.

[Tinker]

22 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Lonzo...a star was born tonight...or not. I guarantee I will be telling you, "I told you so!", a year from now. Feel bad for all these hopeful Laker fans.

Triple double in his second game.

[Calibandar]

On 7-7-2017 at 6:03 PM, Relic said:

Meanwhile the Knicks inked an offer sheet for Tim Hardaway Jr to the une of 71 million dollars for 4 years. WHAT THE FUUUUUUUCK?? Will our suffering never end??

And yet, and yet, I was thinking today.

What if they re-sign Rose, which they are thinking of doing. And they keep Carmelo.

Then you have Rose, Hardaway at the 2, Carmelo at the 3, Porzingis at the 4 and then Noah at the 5, when he eventually comes back. If not, play Hernangomez. Is this not a team that can and will challenge for a playoffs spot in the East?

On paper you'd say yes. Counter argument will be that the Knicks has all of these guys last season except for Hardaway and they were shit. Of course they also missed Noah for most of the season. Assume he comes back fit ( big if) and Carmelo stays, it's potentially a team that goes somewhere. 

I'm not sure getting rid of Carmelo makes real sense from a Knicks POV. It would make real sense from Carmelo's POV though, or it should.

17 hours ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

Fultz leaves the game after injuring his ankle. The 76ers are cursed.

Fortunately he's fine, out for only two weeks.

[Relic]

11 hours ago, Calibandar said:

And yet, and yet, I was thinking today.

What if they re-sign Rose, which they are thinking of doing. And they keep Carmelo.

Then you have Rose, Hardaway at the 2, Carmelo at the 3, Porzingis at the 4 and then Noah at the 5, when he eventually comes back. If not, play Hernangomez. Is this not a team that can and will challenge for a playoffs spot in the East?

Pretty atrocious team, on paper or otherwise. Noah is done, Rose is a ball dominant point guard who can't really shoot, and the other three players need shots to be effective. Just ill conceived, all around.  Noah and Hardaway make almost 40 million dollars a year combined. Just makes me want to vomit.  

[Rhom]

5 hours ago, Relic said:

Pretty atrocious team, on paper or otherwise. Noah is done, Rose is a ball dominant point guard who can't really shoot, and the other three players need shots to be effective. Just ill conceived, all around.  Noah and Hardaway make almost 40 million dollars a year combined. Just makes me want to vomit.  

So here's my question... clearly the Knicks need to clear salary and be terrible for a couple years.  Are Knicks fans self-aware enough to recognize that it would need to happen?

 

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

So here's my question... clearly the Knicks need to clear salary and be terrible for a couple years.  Are Knicks fans self-aware enough to recognize that it would need to happen?

 

would be fine...if we hadn't already been terrible since 2001. Also, when rebuilding, it's nice to have a GM in place before drafting. And it's probably a good idea not to hand out huge contracts to dudes no one wants at the price you are willing to pay. 

[Rhom]

19 minutes ago, Relic said:

would be fine...if we hadn't already been terrible since 2001. Also, when rebuilding, it's nice to have a GM in place before drafting. And it's probably a good idea not to hand out huge contracts to dudes no one wants at the price you are willing to pay. 

That's the sad part, they are terrible without meaning to be terrible.  And that's the crux of my question...  They've got to commit to clearing it all out and starting entirely fresh.  Probably a moot point because Dolan clearly isn't okay with purposely being bad; but if the organization did, would the fans crucify them?  Or would they accept that you sometimes have to burn the entire house down to build a new one?  

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

 would the fans crucify them?  

Well, somehow they have managed to sell out basically every home game while getting out of the first round once in 16 years. So... i don't think they care what the average fan (who can't afford to actually go to a game) thinks at this point. 

[Relic]

A quick recap (to make myself feel a tiny bit better about the Knicks) of what the Nets have done with their draft picks since 2010, courtesy of this article: https://theringer.com/2017-nba-free-agency-brooklyn-nets-sean-marks-rebuild-3fce04d43053

 

Let’s recap what has happened with the picks the team has traded since 2010 (sorry, Nets fans):

2011: Utah selects Enes Kanter no. 3 overall (Deron Williams trade)
2012: Portland selects Damian Lillard no. 6 overall (Gerald Wallace trade)
2014: Boston selects James Young no. 17 overall (Garnett/Pierce trade)
2015: Atlanta selects Kelly Oubre Jr. no. 15 overall due to a pick swap with Brooklyn, trades his rights to Washington (Joe Johnson trade)
2016: Boston selects Jaylen Brown no. 3 overall (Garnett/Pierce trade)
2017: Philadelphia selects Markelle Fultz no. 1 overall, via pick swap with Boston (Garnett/Pierce trade)

[Rhom]

"Sore groin?  How convenient..."

Lonzo to sit tonight versus Fox and the Kings.