NBA 2017: Fleecing the East

[sperry]

Giannis is significantly better than John Wall. It's not close.

 

Also, ESPN has fired like everyone that works for them. They aren't a legitimate news outlet anymore. It's kind of crazy how these outfits completely change what they're doing, yet retain their brand equity from the time that they were actually journalists. Seeing the same thing at CNN now.

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, sperry said:

Also, ESPN has fired like everyone that works for them. They aren't a legitimate news outlet anymore. 

ESPN hasn't been a legitimate news outlet for several years now.

[sperry]

Just now, briantw said:

ESPN hasn't been a legitimate news outlet for several years now.

 

But they don't even have the capabilities to do any of it anymore.

[Jaime L]

1 minute ago, sperry said:

Giannis is significantly better than John Wall. It's not close.

Indeed. Giannis was 2nd team All-NBA and Wall was 3rd. THEY'RE SEPARATED BY LIGHT YEARS. 

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Jaime L said:

Indeed. Giannis was 2nd team All-NBA and Wall was 3rd. THEY'RE SEPARATED BY LIGHT YEARS. 

 

What metric would you like to compare them by?  Win shares, Offensive rating, Defensive Rating, bPM, PER?  Just setting their traditional stat lines side by side?

[Jaime L]

9 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

What metric would you like to compare them by?  Win shares, Offensive rating, Defensive Rating, bPM, PER?  Just setting their traditional stat lines side by side?

Let's start with max contracts earned for mediocre teammates. 

Giannis is better statistically. Of course with his teammates he had to do everything. Like a 6'11" Russell Westbrook. I don't think any of those stats capture the extent John Wall makes every one of his teammates better. Not in an oblique Steph Curry gravity sense, but in a direct "I'm making life as easy possible for you".

Do you really think John Stockton was only as good as his raw stats? 

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Jaime L said:

Let's start with max contracts earned for mediocre teammates. 

Giannis is better statistically. Of course with his teammates he had to do everything. Like a 6'11" Russell Westbrook. I don't think any of those stats capture the extent John Wall makes every one of his teammates better. Not in an oblique Steph Curry gravity sense, but in a direct "I'm making life as easy possible for you".

Do you really think John Stockton was only as good as his raw stats? 

 

 

I can buy the argument that John Wall and Giannis have similar impacts on the offensive end. The difference being, Wall is a mediocre defender and Giannis is a fantastic defender.

[Jaime L]

3 minutes ago, sperry said:

I can buy the argument that John Wall and Giannis have similar impacts on the offensive end. The difference being, Wall is a mediocre defender and Giannis is a fantastic defender.

I think based on current skillsets, it's easier to build a great offense around Wall vs. Giannis. If Giannis continues to refine his inner Lebron, that will flip. 

I can't disagree on the second point. Wall could be a much better defender than he is. He has all the tools and he shows flashes of it but is lazy too often. 

[Calibandar]

11 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

It seems like EVERYONE is overrating Giannis at this point. I haven't seen that much of him, so maybe I should shut up, but this is one year we're talking about. I don't see how you put him in the top 25 at this point. There's just not enough there, there. 

He was the revelation of last season and most definitely in my top 25. Seen as the biggest talent in the league alongside Towns, excluding rookies. John Wall equally should be in the top 25. De Andre Jordan certainly shouldn't be because of his extreme deficiencies. He literally cannot shoot a basketball.

[Rhom]

Heat sign Kelly Olynyk.

I didn't know he was up for grabs.    Somehow I've always just associated him with the Celtics and figured he would be part of their future.

I've never liked the guy though and my opinion certainly didn't changed after the Kevin Love fiasco a couple years ago.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, Rhom said:

"One crazy thing? The talent divide is so wide that Towns is the worst player on the West team (14th overall by composite rank), but he's ranked higher than the third-best player in the East."

 

And Towns is still just a baby. Imagine what he'll be like once he matures. Could be a modern day Shaq with a three pointer. 
 

13 hours ago, Jaime L said:

The larger point he's making is fair but some of those rankings in there are ridiculous. DeMarcus Cousins is the 10th best player in the NBA? Let me know when that translates to wins. Giannis is #17? Wall is #24? Isaiah Thomas is #39? Meanwhile good ol' Ricky Rubio is #32.

Whatever this ESPN composite ranking they're using looks like the new QBR. 

 

Yeah that Rubio ranking jumped out at me too. Still, the point stands that the West is getting stronger. Maybe @briantw is right in that LeBron won't go West too.

 

[Relic]

This is a rather amusing article...

https://theringer.com/nba-first-name-game-e1a2249dcab0

 

"Late Wednesday night, I was asked a question that I have not been able to stop thinking about since. It came from a person named Alex Cooke. It appeared plain and direct at first, but was actually layered and nuanced, which is to say it was my favorite kind of question. The bones of it were as such: What is the best basketball team you can put together if you’re only allowed to include players who all have the same first name? That’s it. That was the whole thing."

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

He was the revelation of last season and most definitely in my top 25. Seen as the biggest talent in the league alongside Towns, excluding rookies. 

This is what makes Simmons so interesting. He's not the athletic freak that Giannis is, but he's better at almost everything else. 

[Fez]

11 hours ago, sperry said:

 

But they don't even have the capabilities to do any of it anymore.

They've still got Zach Lowe, so they aren't totally lost. Although I guess you could argue that he's just the Shepard Smith of ESPN.

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Fez said:

They've still got Zach Lowe, so they aren't totally lost. Although I guess you could argue that he's just the Shepard Smith of ESPN.

 

He's wasted at ESPN, who is all in on the lowest common denominator (which in fairness, you have to be if you're trying be a huge national player, since 75+% of the population is the lowest common denominator.)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Celtics are trading Avery Bradley to Detroit. Terrible move IMO. 

[sperry]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Celtics are trading Avery Bradley to Detroit. Terrible move IMO. 

They had to shed salary to make the Hayward trade work, and they can't resign Bradely next year anyway. Great trade.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, sperry said:

They had to shed salary to make the Hayward trade work, and they can't resign Bradely next year anyway. Great trade.

Bradley was arguably their second best player at the end of the season. Also, it appears they had to kick in a second round pick, and they're getting a Morris brother back too. 

[sperry]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Bradley was arguably their second best player at the end of the season. Also, it appears they had to kick in a second round pick, and they're getting a Morris brother back too. 

 

Morris is a good player. 2nd round picks have very little value when you can just buy them. They can't resign Bradley at the end of the year anyway.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

40 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

Morris is a good player. 2nd round picks have very little value when you can just buy them. They can't resign Bradley at the end of the year anyway.

I get that, but this is just another example of Ainge making a bad move over the last year or so.