Very small Bolton family

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

I know that this topic discussed a lot but I didn't see anywhere else appropriate to weigh in on this. 

We know only Roose, Ramsay and Domeric from House Bolton. It is quite suspicious that Roose doesn't have cousins and brothers. You could say that he killed them as Ramsay did to his brother. But what about female members of House Bolton? Roose could use them to create marriage alliances with other Northern lords against Stannis. I also think that Roose deserved better match than Frey girl.

I know that there are few Starks in North as well . But Boltons with flayed man as their sigil gives every right to think about it.

 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Yup, it is intriguing. The Starks at least have the excuse of having gone through a meat grinder twice in recent years (Bob's rebellion first, WO5K second). For the Boltons - who knows what happened?

Worse still, if I'm not much mistaken, "Why are there only two Boltons" is not one of the countless questions the readers ever asked GRRM. Or at least asked and answered.

[Bluetiger]

I guess they're just irrelevant to the main story... too minor and distant cadet branch too really matter. Like those Barrowton and White Harbor Starks:

 

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JUNE 10, 2003

THE STARK FAMILY

Did Ned Stark have any uncle or aunt?

No.

I asume that important families like the Starks would keep in touch with their greatuncle and greatuncle's grandkids; cousin and 2nd cousin and 3rd cousin and so forth. So there would be a lot more Starks around than just the 7 we saw (like the Freys or Lannisters).

There are probably some descendants of offshoot branches from the family tree floating around the north, most likely in White Harbor and Barrowton.

(So Spake Martin, entry 1239)

 

Now, the question is, why the lordly Bolton branch is so tiny... I wonder who Roose's first wife was, since we know that Bethany Ryswell was the second.

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

I came up with this idea when I thought about Domeric's death. Roose knows that Ramsay killed Domeric but he does nothing about it. Maybe kinslaying is required for being lord of Dreadfort just as you have to be great knight to have title Sword of Morning.

[The Fattest Leech]

 

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We know only Roose, Ramsay and Domeric from House Bolton. It is quite suspicious that Roose doesn't have cousins and brothers.

Actually, it is not really suspicious because the Boltons are nothing but a literary plot device to get a few plot points moving. That's it. They are the "bad guys" in the north. They mean nothing to the actual end result of the story and therefore are completely disposable. For us readers, the fewer Boltons there are to dispose of in literary terms, the better for us readers because waiting on plot lines to wrap up is already taking a good amount of time.

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You could say that he killed them as Ramsay did to his brother.

Good point! We already know that Roose is treasonous for breaking the law of First Night, and Ramsay is a known kinslayer, and the major houses in the north (and probably most minor houses at this point) all know that the Boltons are lying about fArya as they try to usurp Winterfell.... so you could just easily tack this on to the Bolton's laundry list of treason and no one would blink.

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But what about female members of House Bolton? Roose could use them to create marriage alliances with other Northern lords against Stannis.

As I mentioned above, George did not do this with the Bolton's because they are a plot device to die out very soon.

And the Northern lords may be against Stannis after the battle, but they are not going to stop anyone from (assisting them) crushing the Boltons.

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I also think that Roose deserved better match than Frey girl.

Ok. I do disagree with you here. Maybe in your opinion Fat Walda is not good enough for Roose, but why is that? You did not give any reason to this.

Also, more importantly, Roose likes, maybe even almost loves as much as Roose can love, Fat Walda. He explains this to Theon how she pleases him so, even in the bedroom. Back at Harrenhal Fat Walda was constantly writing Roose letters (to which he burned everyone) and they could easily have been plans to turn on Robb and the Red Wedding, so she has been loyal to him in addition to physically pleasing him.

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I know that there are few Starks in North as well . But Boltons with flayed man as their sigil gives every right to think about it.

As to the bold, I am not sure what you mean here.

[Free Northman Reborn]

3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

 

Actually, it is not really suspicious because the Boltons are nothing but a literary plot device to get a few plot points moving. That's it. They are the "bad guys" in the north. They mean nothing to the actual end result of the story and therefore are completely disposable. For us readers, the fewer Boltons there are to dispose of in literary terms, the better for us readers because waiting on plot lines to wrap up is already taking a good amount of time.

 

Exactly. The truth is, every noble family in Westeros should have a family tree of hundreds, considering they mostly go back thousands of years. Martin just did not feel the need to flesh out the Boltons any further, because they need to be disposed of eventually.

[Stormking902]

The only familys that make sense are Lannister, Tyrell, Frey, hightower these houses have numerous cousins and cadet branches but rest of the familys of Westeros seem to only be the main branch and thats it. 

 

I always wondered why Harry the heir didnt marry an Arryn of Gulltown obviously this is a cadet branch removed from the main branch hundreds of years but they still are decendents of an Arryn prince somewhere down the line. 

[cpg2016]

51 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Exactly. The truth is, every noble family in Westeros should have a family tree of hundreds, considering they mostly go back thousands of years. Martin just did not feel the need to flesh out the Boltons any further, because they need to be disposed of eventually.

And moreover, we don't get this information for almost ANY non-POV (or Frey) houses.

It's highly likely that there are lots of Bolton cousins and distant relations all over.  But lets say Roose is an only child, which isn't a crazy thought.  It doesn't really matter to the story who his direct cousins are.  We know who is first wife is; they had one son, who his bastard murdered.  This is not an absurd family tree.  Rickard Karstark has one cousin and no sibling.  So we have plenty of examples of small families.

[The Commentator]

4 hours ago, Grazdan zo Azer said:

I know that this topic discussed a lot but I didn't see anywhere else appropriate to weigh in on this. 

We know only Roose, Ramsay and Domeric from House Bolton. It is quite suspicious that Roose doesn't have cousins and brothers. You could say that he killed them as Ramsay did to his brother. But what about female members of House Bolton? Roose could use them to create marriage alliances with other Northern lords against Stannis. I also think that Roose deserved better match than Frey girl.

I know that there are few Starks in North as well . But Boltons with flayed man as their sigil gives every right to think about it.

 

Some families are just not as fertile as some others.  Walda could give the Bolton DNA a much-needed fertility boost.  

Okay, on her own, Walda may not be the best match for Warden of the North Roose Bolton, but she came with a generous dowry.  No one else would come up with a generous offer like that.  Roose is a lot older than Walda.  He lives in a drafty northern castle.  Walda comes from a very rich family with an awesome castle on the banks of a river.  It looks a fair match to me.

[Lion of the West]

I would imagine that the Boltons lack in number so that Roose will have to bring in Ramsay. If there were nephews, nieces, cousins and the like for Roose to count on, there would be no need to bring in a man like Ramsay into command and make him Roose's heir. And given how important Ramsay's actions have been to drive the plot in the North to bring down the Starks I think that its clear that there are so few Boltons so that the character Ramsay can reasonably get involved in the way he does without to much extra fuzz.

[Colonel Green]

5 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

I always wondered why Harry the heir didnt marry an Arryn of Gulltown obviously this is a cadet branch removed from the main branch hundreds of years but they still are decendents of an Arryn prince somewhere down the line. 

Because they're uncouth, as Littlefinger says.  Harry is anticipating becoming Lord of the Eyrie.

[zandru]

Roose didn't seem particularly broken up, or even surprised, that his bastard Ramsey killed his only son and heir. He also speculated, without apparent rancor, that Ramsey would kill all of Fat Walda's offspring. So maybe this is a Bolton family tradition - the child with the strongest desire to be the heir eliminates all the rest. Ramsey did it, as did Roose before him, and so on.

It would fit the documented character of this most brutal of Northron families, and you wouldn't need to shoehorn in the excuse of "it's just a plot device."

[Adam Yozza]

I'm sure Roose makes a comment about Domeric being buried with his trueborn brothers that died in the cradle. Anyway, the reason we don't see or hear about any other Bolton's in the ASOIAF time frame is because they're not important to the plot. There are doubtless a couple of cadet branches ruling minor holdfasts around the Dreadfort and it's lands, and probably a few elsewhere in the North. Maybe Roose had a brother who joined the NW, an uncle who was killed in RR, a cousin who died childless in the false spring. Hell, maybe Roose was actually the youngest of five brothers who suffered a list of accidents and tragedies. Who knows? The point is Roose and Ramsay are the only Bolton's who matter to the story, hence, we only see them.

[Dorian Martell's son]

38 minutes ago, zandru said:

Roose didn't seem particularly broken up, or even surprised, that his bastard Ramsey killed his only son and heir. He also speculated, without apparent rancor, that Ramsey would kill all of Fat Walda's offspring. So maybe this is a Bolton family tradition - the child with the strongest desire to be the heir eliminates all the rest. Ramsey did it, as did Roose before him, and so on.

It would fit the documented character of this most brutal of Northron families, and you wouldn't need to shoehorn in the excuse of "it's just a plot device."

Roose is a cold practical man bordering on being a sociopath. His only real enjoyment is manipulating people.  His marriages are out of duty. Rather than taking the prettiest of Lord Walder's brood, he takes the fattest because she will fetch him a sizable dowry. For him, people, even relatives are no more than pawns to him and his future desires 

[zandru]

2 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Roose is a cold practical man bordering on being a sociopath.

Oh, I think Roose crossed that border awhile back. Of course, being an intelligent man (and apparently a lot smarter than Ramsey), he doesn't flaunt it. I continue to think it would fit well into the story that the Bolton line was kept spare and minimal by sibling assassinations as a family tradition. Less possibility of infighting among other family branches, if there aren't any. If so, just imagine the contempt that Roose must feel for Walder Frey and his non-stop cock - and the problems it's creating for House Frey.

[The Fattest Leech]

 

1 hour ago, zandru said:

It would fit the documented character of this most brutal of Northron families, and you wouldn't need to shoehorn in the excuse of "it's just a plot device."

The thing is, the Boltons are a plot device. George has used "Ramsay" in particular in at least three of his past stories... all the way down to most of looks, motivation, and the torture and flaying of their victims. Even down to Ramsay and how he likes to wear that garnet earring in his ear that is shaped like a blood drop. This from another story with a "Ramsay" in it:

• The gem was just as Dirk recalled it: a deep red, laced with thin black lines, shaped like a tear.

The character is a plot device in the most basic way, meaning, a straight up antagonist bad guy that is there just to cause trouble to the protagonist, which in turn moves the character development and plot along. Which is why George did not have to develop them any further than he did. He created what was necessary and that was it. I will say the the addition of Roose is actually new to his own theme that he reuses.

So, sad to say for Bolton fans, but they are not going to survive, not going to regain any lands, and not going to be able to reek any revenge. (get it) For me, I would like to see Lady Walda survive and even if the Bolton baby was fostered in some other home. It would be senseless to kill them just because.

1 minute ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Roose is a cold practical man bordering on being a sociopath. His only real enjoyment is manipulating people.  His marriages are out of duty. Rather than taking the prettiest of Lord Walder's brood, he takes the fattest because she will fetch him a sizable dowry. For him, people, even relatives are no more than pawns to him and his future desires 

Gods damn right!

[Dorian Martell's son]

10 minutes ago, zandru said:

Oh, I think Roose crossed that border awhile back. Of course, being an intelligent man (and apparently a lot smarter than Ramsey), he doesn't flaunt it. I continue to think it would fit well into the story that the Bolton line was kept spare and minimal by sibling assassinations as a family tradition. Less possibility of infighting among other family branches, if there aren't any. If so, just imagine the contempt that Roose must feel for Walder Frey and his non-stop cock - and the problems it's creating for House Frey.

The problem with this is that Roose understands the need for an heir, and all he has is Ramsey. For a house as old and the Boltons, slowly removing family members via assassination is not very conducive for the security of the house  

[The Hammer of Justice]

The Arryns are even smaller

[John Suburbs]

12 hours ago, Grazdan zo Azer said:

I know that this topic discussed a lot but I didn't see anywhere else appropriate to weigh in on this. 

We know only Roose, Ramsay and Domeric from House Bolton. It is quite suspicious that Roose doesn't have cousins and brothers. You could say that he killed them as Ramsay did to his brother. But what about female members of House Bolton? Roose could use them to create marriage alliances with other Northern lords against Stannis. I also think that Roose deserved better match than Frey girl.

I know that there are few Starks in North as well . But Boltons with flayed man as their sigil gives every right to think about it.

 

My quick explanation of Roose:

He is the last surviving son of the Night's King, which makes him half-Other, or maybe half-wight. He survives through the ages by fathering sons on human brides, waiting until they come of age, then killing them, flaying them (thus the sigil) and donning their skins in a perfect likeness -- except for the eyes, which remain pale as milkglass. In this way, he maintains his role as the new Lord of the Dreadfort, or whatever house he happens to have married into.

This is why he is extremely pale, has very little body hair, never sweats, has to leech himself constantly to prevent the blood from pooling in his hands and feet, and why he can silence even big boisterous louts like the Greatjon with barely a whisper.

It also explains the weird turn of events with Dom. Dom was not his trueborn son, he was Brandon's, so he was not a candidate for flaying. Roose knew right away that Ramsey was his because of his eyes, so it was no skin off Roose's nose when Ramsey killed Dom, and it was why he rewarded this treachery with lands, titles and a sweet marriage to the Lady of Winterfell. Now that Ramsey is legitimized, expect Roose to die soon and when Ramsey suddenly calms down and starts speaking in whispers and leeching himself, you'll know the switch has been made.

[Stormking902]

10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The problem with this is that Roose understands the need for an heir, and all he has is Ramsey. For a house as old and the Boltons, slowly removing family members via assassination is not very conducive for the security of the house  

Very true lol