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Parallel characters (general topic)


Lady bonehead

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My scattered brain is constantly coming up with parallels between often quite disparate characters in ASoIaF, and then promptly forgetting them before I can develop them further. This is therefore an attempt to set up a thread for posting such ideas.

My latest one had to do with Brienne and Penny: not the characters themselves necessarily but there respective relationships with Jaime and Tyrion. In both cases we have uncharacteristically chivalrous behavior on the male side without physical attraction, while the sexual interest seems to be coming more from the female side.  This is one reason I like Penny and hope she continues to have a positive influence on Tyrion.

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In ACOK, there's some clear parallels between Theon/Asha and Stannis/Renly. Theon and Stannis are both the "rightful" heirs to their respective thrones, but they don't know how to win over their people. Rather than showing the Ironborn compassion, Theon arrives barking out orders, which as Asha points out, isn't going to earn him much respect when he hasn't been around for the last ten years. Stannis refuses to compromise, and thus pushes his constituents away. Asha and Renly, on the other hand, both know they aren't legally the rightful rulers of their kingdoms, but have huge support among their people because of their charisma and embracing of their culture (axe-throwing and bawdy jokes for the Iron Islands, tourneys and feasts for the Reach).

I think there are also some parallels between how Cersei and Arianne go about securing their goals (mainly by using their sexuality) in AFFC, although much like with Theon/Stannis and Asha/Renly, they're still two very different people. 

There are also some parallels between characters in the main series and historical characters that came to my mind as I was reading TWOIAF and Dunk and Egg:

  • Stannis and Maekar
  • Tyrion (and Jaime) and Bloodraven
  • Brienne and Dunk
  • Arianne and Daena the Defiant
  • Cersei and Rhaenyra
  • Dany and Nymeria
  • Asha and Quellon
  • Margaery and Alicent Hightower
  • Taena and Tyanna of the Tower

None of these characters match perfectly, but I do think there are similarities. 

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Rhaenyra and Cersei share so many things in common. Even the number and destiny of bastard children are quite similar. Totally agree on this one. 

Also: 

1. Elia Sand and Lyanna. 

Elia is just like the standin of Lyanna. Make you feel like GRRM tries to use Elia Sand and Aegon to show us the story of Lyanna and Rhaegar (which he does not want to reveal for the same reason as why we do not know if Helen of Troy was kidnaped or eloped willingly) 

2. Daena and Lyanna. 

Both are horseriders and jousters. Both are defiant and wild. Both managed to sleep with a Targ prince secretly and have stayed in a tower and give birth to a famous bastard. 

 

 

 

 

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Rhaegar and Jaime.  Enemies because of the machinations of their fathers, and both better men, but denied what should be theirs by the actions of the same.

 

Lord Beric and Sansa.  Most starry eyed and romantic youths, altered by the cruelty of war and conflict.  Later to become masters at a part of the game they never expected to be when young.

 

Bowen Marsh and Wyman Manderly.  Both sre survivor cockroaches, but their living long enough is their strength because they wind up in positions of influence at critical times.

 

The Mountain that Rapes and Tyrion.  It's not my fault I'm on the wrong side: it's my inherent trait!  Oh my headaches/memories that pain me and make me kill and side with a mad queen.

and on that note: Cersei and Dany.  This one more of convergent paths - one is bad from the beginning, one is latent in her madness, but both are evil and stupid tyrants who are baaaaad news.

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Robert Baratheon is like Aegon IV with all his gluttony and greed, while Stannis Baratheon is like Aegon III (a brooding man with depression who saw his mother die in front of him and who never seemed comfortable around women).

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Robert Baratheon and Daemon I Blackfyre

Both raised in rebellion agains't their kings, had a rather weak claim and convinced people to support them for being charismatic and being great fighters. Both of them decided to help a wounded KG(Gwayne Corbray and Barristan Selmy).

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12 hours ago, giant snake said:

and on that note: Cersei and Dany.  This one more of convergent paths - one is bad from the beginning, one is latent in her madness, but both are evil and stupid tyrants who are baaaaad news.

You are correct with this one. George mentioned in an interview that Dany and Cersei are supposed to be parallel to each other.

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Dany fans always think I'm trolling but I think she is the example of a character turning into a tyrant.  I always maintain that it's the story of a heroine's fall from grace, and that her followers want to believe in her so bad that they don't see what is right before them.  They loved Rhaegar and they desperately want to believe that she is Rhaegar come again.  They even say that exactly!  What they don't realize is that she is Aerys come again.  Don't forget that Aerys was popular and perceived as good when he was still young.

She's actually an interesting character even though her chapters in the last book were so dreadful.

The average TV fan doesn't get it though because she is a pure heroic type of character.  I also think that she is played wrong by the actress - I get more of a smug and righteous vibe and not the more subtle character of the books, who is very much the grandiose and typical Targaryan queen.  I only bring that up because I think that most of the love for Dany comes from the show's popularity.

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2 hours ago, giant snake said:

Dany fans always think I'm trolling but I think she is the example of a character turning into a tyrant.  I always maintain that it's the story of a heroine's fall from grace, and that her followers want to believe in her so bad that they don't see what is right before them.  They loved Rhaegar and they desperately want to believe that she is Rhaegar come again.  They even say that exactly!  What they don't realize is that she is Aerys come again.  Don't forget that Aerys was popular and perceived as good when he was still young.

She's actually an interesting character even though her chapters in the last book were so dreadful.

The average TV fan doesn't get it though because she is a pure heroic type of character.  I also think that she is played wrong by the actress - I get more of a smug and righteous vibe and not the more subtle character of the books, who is very much the grandiose and typical Targaryan queen.  I only bring that up because I think that most of the love for Dany comes from the show's popularity.

I don't think we are supposed to acknoweledge the shows existence in this forum, but I mostly agree with what you're saying.  I thought for a very long time that Dany was going to be the big bad in the series until just recently (I saw her decision in ADWD to stay in Meereen and help govern the city rather than abandon it for Westeros as a turning point where she firmly ended up in the "good guy" camp) but who knows?  Not my favorite character but she definitely has a very compelling story and it will be fun to watch her grow up.

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OP here: it's OK to comment on posts but don't make this a Dany thread please.

That said, my unsullied daughter thinks Dany is batshit crazy.

Parallel characters: Dany and Jon.  Jon thinks he has to save ALL the wildlings in the same way that Dany thinks she has to save ALL the slaves of Slavers Bay.

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I think their youthful optimism and maybe naïveté are alike in that regard.  One of the marks against Jon was that he was probably not taught to rule like Robb was.  This is an important part in a noble's education IRL or at least it was.  Jon is a parallel character to poor Franz Ferdinand.  Trained to lead armies, not to lead people.

That's a common trait amongst many of the younger characters.  A lot of the characters who are supposed to rule and politic have no aptitude for it.  I was thinking that Margery Tyrell is more shrewd than her cousins of less pedigree, so she is probably more likely to be a major player even though everyone thinks she is just a ditz who cares about nothing but riding horsies and being entertained.  Maybe Sansa and Margery will be rivals?

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6 hours ago, giant snake said:

Dany fans always think I'm trolling but I think she is the example of a character turning into a tyrant.  I always maintain that it's the story of a heroine's fall from grace, and that her followers want to believe in her so bad that they don't see what is right before them.  They loved Rhaegar and they desperately want to believe that she is Rhaegar come again.  They even say that exactly!  What they don't realize is that she is Aerys come again.  Don't forget that Aerys was popular and perceived as good when he was still young.

She's actually an interesting character even though her chapters in the last book were so dreadful.

The average TV fan doesn't get it though because she is a pure heroic type of character.  I also think that she is played wrong by the actress - I get more of a smug and righteous vibe and not the more subtle character of the books, who is very much the grandiose and typical Targaryan queen.  I only bring that up because I think that most of the love for Dany comes from the show's popularity.

I agree. I'm also not a fan of the show portrayal, but that seems to be where most of her fans come from.

6 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

 

You are correct with this one. George mentioned in an interview that Dany and Cersei are supposed to be parallel to each other.

Did George also say he regrets not putting Dany and Cersei's ruling arcs into the same book? I read that somewhere, but I don't know if it's true or not. 

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4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Did George also say he regrets not putting Dany and Cersei's ruling arcs into the same book? I read that somewhere, but I don't know if it's true or not. 

Hmm. I am not sure. That is news to me, but something that I might look for in a minute. Thanks for the info.

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On 6/7/2017 at 1:02 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:
  • Cersei and Rhaenyra

Rhaenyra is nothing like Cersei. Rhaenyra was mad with grief, Cersei was mad from the beginning and she killed Melara and tortured baby Tyrion.

Hellicent is more like Cersei, both wanted to usurp the Throne when they had no claim and both had sons who were monsters.

On 6/7/2017 at 1:02 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:
  • Taena and Tyanna of the Tower

Was Taena using magic?

On 6/7/2017 at 1:02 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:
  • Dany and Nymeria

Dany is opposite from Nymeria. She uses dragons when Nymeria lost her home and tried to escape the dragons. Val is more like Nymeria.

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Jaime and Rhaegar: Doing what has to be done. Whatever the consequence for their honor.
Tywin and Tyrion: Their attitude with whores, their political cunning. But still manipulated by smarter than them.
Jon and Daenerys: Wishing good. But opposed in serving or being served.
Euron and Bloodraven: Gifted with knowledge and magic
Varys and LF: Master schemers.
Lyanna and Arya: Wild she-wolves.

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On July 6, 2017 at 0:04 PM, The Hoare said:

Robert Baratheon and Daemon I Blackfyre

Both raised in rebellion agains't their kings, had a rather weak claim and convinced people to support them for being charismatic and being great fighters. Both of them decided to help a wounded KG(Gwayne Corbray and Barristan Selmy).

Interesting never connected the helping of a downed KG before. Very nice 

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On 6/7/2017 at 7:04 PM, The Hoare said:

Robert Baratheon and Daemon I Blackfyre

Both raised in rebellion agains't their kings, had a rather weak claim and convinced people to support them for being charismatic and being great fighters. Both of them decided to help a wounded KG(Gwayne Corbray and Barristan Selmy).

Never happened. Jon Arryn was the one who started the war. Aerys had sentenced Robert to death for no reason, Daeron hadn’t done that. Also it were Robert’s supporters who made him King he never claimed the Throne.

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1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Rhaenyra is nothing like Cersei. Rhaenyra was mad with grief, Cersei was mad from the beginning and she killed Melara and tortured baby Tyrion.

Hellicent is more like Cersei, both wanted to usurp the Throne when they had no claim and both had sons who were monsters.

Was Taena using magic?

Dany is opposite from Nymeria. She uses dragons when Nymeria lost her home and tried to escape the dragons. Val is more like Nymeria.

None of the characters match perfectly (I don't think any characters in this series match perfectly, simply because they're all different characters) but there are some similarities:

Rhaenyra and Cersei: both mothers to three bastards who look nothing like their legal fathers, paranoid and vengeful 

Taena and Tyanna: foreign, seductive beauties that operate as a kind of "mistress of whisperers," appearing to aid the royal family while actually undermining them (Tyanna poisoned Maegor's children and had one of his wives killed, there's a good chance that Taena's a spy for Varys)

Dany and Nymeria: led a group of stragglers on a perilous voyage (Nymeria by sea, Dany through the Red Waste), invaded a distant kingdom and married one of many rival rulers. 

Like I said earlier, none of these parallels are perfect, but they do have some similarities that stick out to me. 

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