Spider-Man: Homecoming -- your spoiler-sense should be tingling

[RumHam]

4 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Liked it. My main complaint is the sloppy timeline. Eight years between Avengers and Civil War (and thus Spiderman) my arse!

Avengers is set md 2012, Civil War/Spiderman is 2016. That's four years.

They did retcon the timeline at some point, but it wasn't with this movie. Note that in Civil War Vision mentions it's been eight years since Stark came out as Iron Man. 

[Martini Sigil]

.....If Michelle is THE MJ... as in Mary Jane... they've completely changed the personality of the character... Fundamentally, --to me anyway-- what makes hers and peter's relationship is that she's way too hot for him... and in that regard, Zendaya is perfect... but the emo/loner/rebel thing is a complete departure from the source comics... I loved Michelle though... the character really made me laugh 

....then again... they've also completely changed aunt May... for the better, IMO, insofar as age-wise its much more plausible.... why would a high school kid have an aunt who's old enough to be his grandma? ....although in relation to MJ, she less important of a character

...Tom Holland's love for the role pours through the Screen

... Michael Keaton was great... the "dad talk" was cringe worthy

.... Damage Control!!!!

 

 

[Bastard of Boston]

2 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

.....If Michelle is THE MJ... as in Mary Jane... they've completely changed the personality of the character... Fundamentally, --to me anyway-- what makes hers and peter's relationship is that she's way too hot for him... and in that regard, Zendaya is perfect... but the emo/loner/rebel thing is a complete departure from the source comics... I loved Michelle though... the character really made me laugh 

....then again... they've also completely changed aunt May... for the better, IMO, insofar as age-wise its much more plausible.... why would a high school kid have an aunt who's old enough to be his grandma? ....although in relation to MJ, she less important of a character

...Tom Holland's love for the role pours through the Screen

... Michael Keaton was great... the "dad talk" was cringe worthy

.... Damage Control!!!!

 

 

Watts makes no secret of the fact that he modeled this movie after the John Hughes catalog. The MCU MJ will no doubt "flower" eventually. If you've seen pictures of Zendaya outside this movie, you gotta believe it's something they have in their pocket. The girl is pretty gorgeous, and it's a perfect opening for the "jackpot" scene at some point. I still want them to include Gwen, as I want the gang to be together.

[Knight of Ashes]

12 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

 I still think it is a knee jerk reaction to call Tom Holland the best Spiderman so far. While Andrew Garfield starred in movies that were sub par, and he was a little too old, he achieved the web slinger's snark perfectly. Peter Parker has never been a wide eyed kid. He has always been mature beyond his years and his wit has a bite to it. 

 

I agree; I was surprised to find Peter genuinely irritating (to me, as an audience member, I know he annoys his antagonists regularly); nonetheless, I enjoyed the movie immensely - and the one at the end with Cap was awesome.

[Maltaran]

Keaton's face in the car scene was great - you can see him putting all the pieces together as Liz mentions the Stark internship.

[Corvinus85]

I enjoyed this movie far more than I expected I would. It had a good villain, different from most of the other Marvel films.

But I think for the first time, watching this film, I felt old. 

[mormont]

This was the best Spider-Man movie I've seen, no question. I wasn't a particular fan of the Raimi movies: I like Raimi but for me his style just wasn't a great fit. I liked the first Andrew Garfield movie better, but it still didn't quite click. This, though, was terrific. I'd echo what everyone else has said about the lower stakes being important. Tom Holland is terrific, as are his supporting cast. Michael Keaton's Vulture is nothing at all like the comics version, of course, but the changes really work. (The row of teenage girls behind me in the cinema gave an audible gasp when he opened the door at Liz's house. Such a great twist.) 

It's a bit formulaic in places, but Marvel seem to have this down, now: stick to the basic story formula with a couple of unique selling points.

Side note to Martini Sigil: I hate to be 'that guy', but at this point I'm skipping your posts entirely because of the ellipses. They genuinely make your posts hard to read. They just don't flow. Ellipses have a particular function and should be used rarely, not in place of every full stop.

[Myrddin]

Saw it last night and my thoughts are echoes of what's already been said here. Fun, fun film.

The Washington Monument scene was great. Of course it'll take him a long time to climb up. It's freaking tall. And his comment of being much higher than he'd ever been was striking, but it made perfect sense: He's from Queens, not Manhattan. He's probably never crossed the river with his Underroos on.

Vulture's last scene felt real too. Spiderman put him away, but he also save him and his daughter on two separate occasions. He's not a Tony Stark white collar hero. He's a kid from Queens. So it made perfect sense that he wouldn't give up the identity to "Scorpion".

Best laugh out loud moment (and there were a bunch of them): What!?! the f----

I texted my brother this morning that patience is rewarded by waiting through the credits. Sets the stage for the future of the MCU.

[Corvinus85]

15 hours ago, Myrddin said:

I texted my brother this morning that patience is rewarded by waiting through the credits. Sets the stage for the future of the MCU.

That was evil of you. 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I'd say all 3 versions of Spidey have elements that they excelled at. 

- Raimi's Spiderman movies seem to exist in this heightened comic book world that really reminds me of the cartoons. Everything is dialled up, including the emotions which are melodramatic and huge. But this works with Raimi's directing style which doesn't even attempt to create a sense of realism. Thats my favourite element of these movies. They weren't perfect, most of the action is subpar and I'm not a fan of the actual spiderman parts, but I do really like Maguire as Peter.

- I struggle to find much good in the Amazing set of movies. All I can say is that I managed to enjoy the firsts version of the origin tale, even though it was not new info to me at all. The wisecracking Spidey was far better than Maguires, but the problem was that it didn't gel with Garfields version of Peter, and mostly just came off as mean spirited and snarky. Most of these rest of these movies are horrible, even the much lauded romantic elements.

- Saw Homecoming last night and I really enjoyed it. It got a hell of a lot right. First and foremost I liked that by making Peter mostly pretty bad at what he did, but super excited by his new powers it felt far fresher than the whole 'great power, great responsibility' thing. Red Letter Media described it as almost as if they had come up with a checklist of all the things the audience have already seen and are tired of and made sure they didn't include it in this movie. Seems pretty correct. 

This and Logan are clearly best Superhero movies of the year for me. 

[red snow]

I watched it yesterday and I think they really "got" Spider-man. I liked how being grounded was a theme of the film and a character arc for Parker.

The Vulture was probably the best realised villain Marvel has had - I loved how his whole deal was trying to be under the radar and I was essentially with him when he pointed out the hypocrisy of stark who made his billions off selling weapons only to become holier than thou. Maybe Keaton and the Tinkerer would have been fine working for SHIELD (although i guess he maybe only took the salvage job on to get tech for criminal enterprises)

I was a bit frustrated at how Happy and Stark ignored Parker's legit concerns about the vulture and they did very little. This again set up Spidey's conclusion that he's a necessary street level hero. Shame there's no mention of 4 super powered people fighting street level crime in NY. It's the tricky thing with Spidey, to get him right feels more like the tone for a tv show but his powers require film budgets (for the moment)

I also really liked the diversity of the cast. Yes, it stood out but it was still nice to see it.

I thought that putting him in positions where his powers are limited, running through a park and the really clever having to crawl/climb up the washington monument was fun to watch ( i don't recall the second being done in comics?)

Holland has decent range as well. I liked his reaction upon meeting Liz's dad and the car scene in general was really well executed by Holland and Keaton.

It was nice to be spared an origin although I felt we could have done with more mention of Uncle Ben and power and responsibility. I can't recall if they covered it directly in Civil War but I'm not clear in this version if Ben died because Parker didn't stop the criminal when he had a chance. In this version it could just as easily be that Parker is obsessed with being an Avenger.

It could have been more clear him and May were struggling financially although I may have again forgotten that Stark solved this problem in Civil War for them?

But it was a good film and adds an aspect missing in the mcu. I hope it means they'll go for similar villains more often. Might be a while with Thor and then THanos coming up. But maybe for Black Panther and Captain Marvel we'll get a grounded villain.

[The Anti-Targ]

56 minutes ago, red snow said:

I watched it yesterday and I think they really "got" Spider-man. I liked how being grounded was a theme of the film and a character arc for Parker.

The Vulture was probably the best realised villain Marvel has had - I loved how his whole deal was trying to be under the radar and I was essentially with him when he pointed out the hypocrisy of stark who made his billions off selling weapons only to become holier than thou. Maybe Keaton and the Tinkerer would have been fine working for SHIELD (although i guess he maybe only took the salvage job on to get tech for criminal enterprises)

I was a bit frustrated at how Happy and Stark ignored Parker's legit concerns about the vulture and they did very little. This again set up Spidey's conclusion that he's a necessary street level hero. Shame there's no mention of 4 super powered people fighting street level crime in NY. It's the tricky thing with Spidey, to get him right feels more like the tone for a tv show but his powers require film budgets (for the moment)

I also really liked the diversity of the cast. Yes, it stood out but it was still nice to see it.

I thought that putting him in positions where his powers are limited, running through a park and the really clever having to crawl/climb up the washington monument was fun to watch ( i don't recall the second being done in comics?)

Holland has decent range as well. I liked his reaction upon meeting Liz's dad and the car scene in general was really well executed by Holland and Keaton.

It was nice to be spared an origin although I felt we could have done with more mention of Uncle Ben and power and responsibility. I can't recall if they covered it directly in Civil War but I'm not clear in this version if Ben died because Parker didn't stop the criminal when he had a chance. In this version it could just as easily be that Parker is obsessed with being an Avenger.

It could have been more clear him and May were struggling financially although I may have again forgotten that Stark solved this problem in Civil War for them?

But it was a good film and adds an aspect missing in the mcu. I hope it means they'll go for similar villains more often. Might be a while with Thor and then THanos coming up. But maybe for Black Panther and Captain Marvel we'll get a grounded villain.

Dunno about that. Captain Marvel, assuming we get her origin story because she's a totally unknown character among movie audiences, is kind of a global / cosmic operator rather than street level. Though if for a decent chunk of her movie she's just a normal army type then they can certainly be grounded for the first Act and perhaps part of the 2nd act.

[mormont]

8 hours ago, red snow said:

I also really liked the diversity of the cast. Yes, it stood out but it was still nice to see it.

From everything I've heard, it's the opposite of standing out: that's just what a high school in Queens would look like now. 

[Raja]

I saw this almost a week ago now and I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I certainly had fun during the movie, but I think that was because the script is funny and the cast is pretty likeable. The diversity was refreshing to see, though Flash seemed like a bit of a cartoon character.

For me, it doesn't even come close to Spider Man 2, but I think those movies were trying to be more 'adult' than this one.

Definitely liked the fact that the movie had lower stakes compared to some of the other marvel/ dc movies. Also, Zendaya seems like an excellent choice for MJ.

It's easier for me to pin down the things I didn't like in the film.

1. The action is pretty incomprehensible in the movie -  Besides the ferry scene ( which I thought was done decently), I couldn't understand *anything* on screen, especially the climactic fight. There are too many cuts and there's no sense of space. I was basically tuning out every time there was an action scene on screen.
2. There's no point of Tony Stark in the movie - Less Tony Stark, more Aunty May, please. I get that Tony's supposed to be the father figure etc in the movie, but I don't think it added anything to the film. I would have preferred seeing more of Aunt May and Peter's relationship.

 

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I finally saw this, and I have to say it was definitely the most fun I've ever had watching a Spidey movie. I'd really have to rewatch Raimi's Spider-Man 2  before I could call Homecoming the "best" Spider-Man film though. But those two Spidey films certainly are damn close in overall quality. I'll also say that this film is probably the only superhero film ever to really capture the tone of what it must be like for a young superhero. The exuberance and ignorance. When I got into Spidey comics Peter was already a married man, so I never read any high school Spidey comics until Miles Morales. (I never read the Bendis & Bagley Ultimate Spidey comics, but I played the hell outta that game on the XBox back in the day.) 

There were so many great Easter eggs:

• I obviously caught the subtle (?) Scorpion reference, but I did not know that Mac Gargan had also become Venom at some point in the comics. Shocker, Tinkerer, and Vulture are all alive for the sequel.
• MJ reveal was great. Nice little twist having Betty Brand look like Gwen Stacey. Ned and his hat should've been on the fuckng poster.
• Donald Glover as the Prowler! I knew he was going to be in the film from the trailer, but I didn't realize who he was playing and that they were going to set up Miles Morales in the MCU as well. Such a great meta moment having him  technically make the first mention of Miles  after all the stuff that went down around the time of Amazing Spider-Man casting with him.
• Peter walking away from Tony's offer at the end and then that whole awkward moment with Pepper and the ring and Happy was just perfect. Also, that was basically blueprints for Miles' Spidey suit on the walls surrounding the costume Peter rejected from Tony.
• Cap's post-credit stinger was so meta. Hilarious, but meta.

I did have a few gripes about the film.  Well, technically these aren't gripes so much as things I didn't even realize the film was missing until well after the show was over.

• There was zero mention of Spidey Sense! I'm hoping the next Spidey film will focus on Peter's honing of his abilities and weaning himself from reliance on the Stark technology in his suit.  Or maybe that will come in the next avengers film. Either way I think that would be a good story point to focus on.
• No J. Jonah Jameson or Daily Planet.  I never missed either one of those in this film, it's just one of those things I only realized wasn't in the film after having seen it.  Again, I think these are things that could be introduced in a sequel. Maybe update it and make the daily planet more of a Cable News Network and J Jonah more of a Rupert Murdoch or less perverted Roger Ailes type. 
• Needed a little bit more Aunt May. Just like one more scene. Also,  while it made for an absolutely fantastic segue into the closing credits. I'm not a big fan of her already knowing Peter is Spidey.
• No mention of Uncle Ben.  This is probably my only real legitimate "gripe" about the film. Ben's death is the motivation, the bedrock for Peter becoming a superhero.  To not even mention him or his influence on Peter in the film felt like a big error. 

[red snow]

4 hours ago, mormont said:

From everything I've heard, it's the opposite of standing out: that's just what a high school in Queens would look like now. 

I'm sure it is. I meant, it stood out for a mainstream film. None of it felt forced at all which was great.

2 hours ago, Raja said:

I saw this almost a week ago now and I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I certainly had fun during the movie, but I think that was because the script is funny and the cast is pretty likeable. The diversity was refreshing to see, though Flash seemed like a bit of a cartoon character.

For me, it doesn't even come close to Spider Man 2, but I think those movies were trying to be more 'adult' than this one.



 

I feel the same way. It's a great cinema movie. I also can't quite put my finger on why it doesn't come close to Spider Man 2 - it could be that there's been a lot more superhero movies since then. One element was I didn't really get that sense of heroism I got from SM2 but that's something that's fairly rare (Wonder Woman going over the trench was a recent example). Maybe it's because the heroic moments came off as homages rather than genuine moments? eg holding the boat was very similar to the train scene in SM2 (and Maguire seemed to be struggling more) and getting out of the rubble was a great call back to the iconic comic moment. I imagine people who haven't seen those two scenes before would get a great buzz seeing them in this film though.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

7 minutes ago, red snow said:

I'm sure it is. I meant, it stood out for a mainstream film. None of it felt forced at all which was great.

 

Yeah it was just there, nobody really mentions it so it goes unnoticed which was good I think. However i read someone mention it before I watched the movie and so it was in the back of my mind the whole time. The casting seems to have been incredibly careful, maybe a bit too careful , but thats the world we live in, I'm sure there would be complaints from someone if they changed the balance one way or another.

I'm not sure I like the MJ change to be honest, I'm not attached to the character but I would have preferred she wasn't some grungy loner. Guess we need to see where that story goes. 

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

The only issue my friends have for the most part with the film is the scene on the Staten Island Ferry, it's pure fantasy. And not for the reason you think. I need to evaluate it for myself.

[red snow]

19 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

The only issue my friends have for the most part with the film is the scene on the Staten Island Ferry, it's pure fantasy. And not for the reason you think. I need to evaluate it for myself.

The director owned up to the fact cars shouldn't be on the ferry but maybe there's some other factor?

30 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Yeah it was just there, nobody really mentions it so it goes unnoticed which was good I think. However i read someone mention it before I watched the movie and so it was in the back of my mind the whole time. The casting seems to have been incredibly careful, maybe a bit too careful , but thats the world we live in, I'm sure there would be complaints from someone if they changed the balance one way or another.

I'm not sure I like the MJ change to be honest, I'm not attached to the character but I would have preferred she wasn't some grungy loner. Guess we need to see where that story goes. 

I spent most of the film thinking Liz was going to be MJ (probably because I have no idea who Zendaya is). She looks like a model (turns out she is) and fit the bill more. I liked the new MJs character though. Shame she didn't get to do that much eg it would be nice to know why she's a loner.

I heard something early in production about the director wanting to reflect the diversity present in NYC but I think it was good that it wasn't turned into a marketing thing because then all the trolls come out and before you know it the only thing being discussed about the film is whether characters should look like the comic counterparts.

I feel like Flash needed to be more of a bully but I sort of liked the idea that while Parker wasn't one of the cool kids he wasn't being bullied throughout. Kids probably have enough of that at school without seeing it in film as well.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

25 minutes ago, red snow said:

The director owned up to the fact cars shouldn't be on the ferry but maybe there's some other factor?

 

Nope, that's about it. For most Staten Islanders it sticks out like a sore thumb and makes no sense. I've heard great things otherwise but that scene had people scratching their heads.