Spider-Man: Homecoming -- your spoiler-sense should be tingling

[red snow]

37 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Nope, that's about it. For most Staten Islanders it sticks out like a sore thumb and makes no sense. I've heard great things otherwise but that scene had people scratching their heads.

The director does feel guilty about it. I wonder if they could have done the scene without there being a need for cars? I guess they had to conceal the weapons in the car for a bust.

The 8 years later thing still has me scratching my head. Surely 5 years later (or less) would have fit with continuity better?

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

1 minute ago, red snow said:

The director does feel guilty about it. I wonder if they could have done the scene without there being a need for cars? I guess they had to conceal the weapons in the car for a bust.

The 8 years later thing still has me scratching my head. Surely 5 years later (or less) would have fit with continuity better?

Depending on the kind of weapons they probably could. It's easy to get shit on the boat, they don't screen everyone and the bomb sniffing dogs are only used to check people with big bags.

[felice]

8 hours ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Nope, that's about it. For most Staten Islanders it sticks out like a sore thumb and makes no sense. I've heard great things otherwise but that scene had people scratching their heads.

Half the ferries are capable of carrying cars even in this universe; it doesn't seem implausible to me that a parallel universe with superheroes and aliens flying around would allow cars on the ferries. After the damage caused by the Chitauri invasion, the risk of a car bomb on a ferry is going to seem like pretty small potatoes.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

45 minutes ago, felice said:

Half the ferries are capable of carrying cars even in this universe; it doesn't seem implausible to me that a parallel universe with superheroes and aliens flying around would allow cars on the ferries. After the damage caused by the Chitauri invasion, the risk of a car bomb on a ferry is going to seem like pretty small potatoes.

That's the only thing that keeps me from pulling my hair cut. 

I wish they carried cars now. 

[RedEyedGhost]

9 hours ago, red snow said:

I feel like Flash needed to be more of a bully but I sort of liked the idea that while Parker wasn't one of the cool kids he wasn't being bullied throughout. Kids probably have enough of that at school without seeing it in film as well.

Getting everybody at a party to repeatedly shout "Penis Parker" isn't being bullied? 

[The Anti-Targ]

12 hours ago, red snow said:

 

I feel like Flash needed to be more of a bully but I sort of liked the idea that while Parker wasn't one of the cool kids he wasn't being bullied throughout. Kids probably have enough of that at school without seeing it in film as well.

The one thing for me is, how is Flash actually able to get away with being a bully to, well, anyone? He's as much of a geek as PP but not smart enough to be a starter on the academic decathlon team. He's certainly not physically intimidating compared to PP. Is it because he has more sass, and has rich parents? I guess having rich parents can give one an inflated sense of self. Bullies normally being the victim of bullying at home, it would be interesting to explore that, what is Flash's home life like, is he a victim as well, or was he just born an arsehole? I prefer it when stories show that arseholes are made, not born. Same as the villain in this movie. He chose villainy because he perceived himself to be a victim, and to an extent he was, and decided that villainy was the best way to stick it to the man.

[The Anti-Targ]

So, one line that kinda stuck out to me was when Tony Stark tells Peter that Captain America could have kicked his arse if he'd wanted to.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but 9 times out of 10 in the comicverse Spidey will beat up Cap. Does this mean in the MCU Cap is OP, Spidey is UP, or was Tony just saying that to bring PP back down to earth and not get too full of / ahead of himself? Or Does Tony Stark not really realise how OP Spidey actually is? At this point in the MCU, the only human who isn't hulk that could be regarded as more powerful (without mechanical enhancements) than Spidey is Dr. Strange right? Once Captain Marvel comes along I presume the power ranking for humans when non-mechanically will be Hulk~Dr. Strange > Captain Marvel > Spider Man>>> other Avengers. (Dr. Strange~Hulk because magic is totally OP right?)

It does seem that before the building collapse scene PP really didn't know how strong he is. Though just surviving a building falling on you is a pretty big deal and should have been quite a surprise to PP. I doubt Cap would be able to survive that sans shield.

[mormont]

Comics-wise, Spidey is stronger and more agile than Cap - but Cap's fighting skills are vastly superior, and he has a lot of experience fighting and defeating physically stronger opponents.

I can't think of a time off-hand when the two have actually fought in the comics, and of course the answer to who wins? is always whichever option serves the story best. But in the MCU, yeah, Cap should be able to defeat Spidey IMO.

[red snow]

5 hours ago, mormont said:

Comics-wise, Spidey is stronger and more agile than Cap - but Cap's fighting skills are vastly superior, and he has a lot of experience fighting and defeating physically stronger opponents.

I can't think of a time off-hand when the two have actually fought in the comics, and of course the answer to who wins? is always whichever option serves the story best. But in the MCU, yeah, Cap should be able to defeat Spidey IMO.

Cap is a lot stronger in the MCU than he is in the comics. I'd say Spidey should be stronger and more agile but I'm 100% with you in the sense that Cap has the experience and is at the top of his game while Spidey is just starting out. I don't think he's fully aware of how strong he is and isn't conscious of his spider-sense yet. I was hoping we'd get a hint of spider-sense in the final act as it would have been a good argument for the enhanced suit making him unaware of his own power. Guess they can still pursue that angle.

14 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Getting everybody at a party to repeatedly shout "Penis Parker" isn't being bullied? 

It's not in the same league as getting his head flushed down the toilet and being physically assaulted like in the previous movies and comics. Also, it seemed like Parker took it in his stride. His behaviour was not one of a kid being bullied. It was more like Peter couldn't even take Flash seriously. I'm not sure anyone else did.

11 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The one thing for me is, how is Flash actually able to get away with being a bully to, well, anyone? He's as much of a geek as PP but not smart enough to be a starter on the academic decathlon team. He's certainly not physically intimidating compared to PP. Is it because he has more sass, and has rich parents? I guess having rich parents can give one an inflated sense of self. Bullies normally being the victim of bullying at home, it would be interesting to explore that, what is Flash's home life like, is he a victim as well, or was he just born an arsehole?

Given his dad's car it seems they were going mainly for overpriveleged kid with no attributes other than rich parents. Which probably means he'll turn out well financially.

I liked the "Amazing" Flash the most out of the versions we've seen on screen. I really liked the scene where Peter comes into school after his uncle died and Flash appears and hugs him. It showed Flash was more of a bully because he was bullied and maybe didn't fully appreciate how hurtful his actions were.

[RumHam]

I was surprised at Flash too, but I did read this from an interview with Holland:

Quote

It was a joke I made to Marvel that I wanted to go to a high school undercover to experience what New York high school is really like. They took it very seriously. I went to school for three days and went undercover. I put on an American accent. My name was Ben Perkins. The problem is that Bronx School of Science is for geniuses. You can’t just join halfway through. You have to go through an extensive exam process. A lot of the students were very confused about why I was there, and I think a lot of the teachers were too. So the teachers kept testing me and asking me questions, and believe me, I am by no means a scientist. It was fun and I learned a lot about schools. One of the key characters in the movie, Flash Thompson, was largely informed by my trip. Bullies now aren’t just jocks. They’re rich kids in the nice cars with the fancy clothes. We have a snobby bully rather than a jock bully.

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/tom-holland-spiderman-homecoming-2-1202017512/

[RedEyedGhost]

5 hours ago, red snow said:

It's not in the same league as getting his head flushed down the toilet and being physically assaulted like in the previous movies and comics. Also, it seemed like Parker took it in his stride. His behaviour was not one of a kid being bullied. It was more like Peter couldn't even take Flash seriously. I'm not sure anyone else did.

Isn't it though?  I mean, I don't have numbers to back it up, but anecdotally it seems like more kids commit suicide because of bullying through words (facebook) than do because of physical mistreatment.  I can't remember the last time a read a story about a kid killing themself because of physical torment.  

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I like the new approach they took to Flash and how he bullies/torments Peter and Ned. Also, they did a good job of making Flash not just a bully but a douchebag in general. His douchiness led to some of the film's best lines.

And I also agree that MCU Cap would wipe the floor with Spidey. Currently in the comics I think they would be more evenly matched though.

[red snow]

15 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Isn't it though?  I mean, I don't have numbers to back it up, but anecdotally it seems like more kids commit suicide because of bullying through words (facebook) than do because of physical mistreatment.  I can't remember the last time a read a story about a kid killing themself because of physical torment.  

You're still missing the point that Peter clearly isn't suffering from it from what we see in the film. That's not condoming what Flash does but he still seems more the loser desperately trying to make Peter look bad and besides the dj thing failing badly at it. The kids joining in the chant were as much the bullies in that case. But given Parker's reaction it was more embarassing than some life-defining moment that makes hin a social outcast and scars him for life. There's never any sign of fear from Peter regarding Flash and he seems to get by absolutely fine at school.

 emotional bullying is still terrible but it's largely because schools do take physical bullying seriously as it's easy to spot and deal with. A kid with bruises has clearly got it from somewhere so it's easier to prove the bullying is happening. It isn't that physical bullying was mutually exclusive from emotional bullying - you got both. Both are independently terrible but given physical bullying hardly ever occurs without the verbal bullying I'd say it's worse. So head flushed down toilet is worse than being called "penis parker" because they'd have probably called him that while flushing his head.

I think the social media aspect of bullying is the worst as the victim has no escape from it. It can happen 24/7. But again the film avoided that side because bullying wasn't really an aspect of this film

compared to the other films Flash and Parker being bullied is really clear as is the affect it has on Peter.

[Relic]

21 hours ago, RumHam said:

I was surprised at Flash too, but I did read this from an interview with Holland:

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/tom-holland-spiderman-homecoming-2-1202017512/

Lol, he went to my high school for three days? That hilarious. I can tell you from first hand experience that the Bronx High School of Science is NOT like most public schools in NYC, mainly due to the fact that it rejects 99% of applicants, it's rammed with nerds,  it's in bumble fuck Bronx, and everyone who goes there commutes, some for as much as two hours each way via public transport. 

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

Lol, he went to my high school for three days? That hilarious. I can tell you from first hand experience that the Bronx High School of Science is NOT like most public schools in NYC, mainly due to the fact that it rejects 99% of applicants, it's rammed with nerds,  it's in bumble fuck Bronx, and everyone who goes there commutes, some for as much as two hours each way via public transport. 

Small world. Did you get a flavour of your old school in the film?

[Relic]

2 hours ago, red snow said:

Small world. Did you get a flavour of your old school in the film?

I actually haven't seen the movie. But i doubt they filmed in Bronx Science anyway. If they did I think i might actually go see it. 

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

I actually haven't seen the movie. But i doubt they filmed in Bronx Science anyway. If they did I think i might actually go see it. 

They filmed most of the movie in Atlanta to save money, including the school scenes. 

[Werthead]

Just came back from seeing it. Quite comfortably, the best Spider-Man movie ever made and one of the very best MCU movies. Made with a light touch, Keaton is the best villain the MCU has ever had (possibly excepting Loki) and the car conversation scene may be my favourite scene in the whole MCU to date. It's really a great piece of film-making. I also liked the fact that Keaton's turn to the dark side came about by complete accident.

He was just trying to scare the guy with the anti-gravity beam and instead vapourised him, realised he didn't give a shit and went, "Oh, I don't have that boundary. Okay, carry on."

Also, the bit on top of the Washington Monument was genuinely vertigo-inducing, and I didn't even watch it in 3D. What I really enjoyed was that Holland's Spider-Man had to work really hard to do things that Maguire seemed to do by instinct 5 seconds after being bit by the spider, and that sold the film's underlying sense of realism.

The biggest weakness is that the fight on the airplane at the end is a bit too "cartoon CGI" (which they otherwise did a fine job of avoiding) and that dented the air of grounded realism they were going for elsewhere.

Quote

I like the new approach they took to Flash and how he bullies/torments Peter and Ned. Also, they did a good job of making Flash not just a bully but a douchebag in general. His douchiness led to some of the film's best lines.

I liked the fact that he was trying to be the villain but ended up just being mildly irritating, to the point where Parker never really engaged with him. He knew he was smarter and funnier than Flash and at no point felt it necessary to get into some kind of debate with him.

[The BlackBear]

Saw it earlier today, thought it was pretty solidly good.

 

Inconsequential niggle: how did Shocker know to go to the school? Vulture only works it out on the drive there, so could only have told him after the talk. But somehow he's there quickly enough to attack Peter, in the time he entered the hall, apologised to Liz and got into his suit.

[The Anti-Targ]

3 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Saw it earlier today, thought it was pretty solidly good.

 

Inconsequential niggle: how did Shocker know to go to the school? Vulture only works it out on the drive there, so could only have told him after the talk. But somehow he's there quickly enough to attack Peter, in the time he entered the hall, apologised to Liz and got into his suit.

They were using their alien tech tracking device, a reasonable explanation, and not one that suggests shocker knew the identity of spider man or even suspected that Spidey is a student there. Putting my criminal hat on I'd be first thinking it would be one of the staff.