U.S. Politics: One NothingBurger with 100% Mos-Cow, Side of Orange Slices and a Banana Daiquiri, Please

[mcbigski]

Lolz to all the Russians under the bed.  They are doing what they can to make lemonade after Trump's election, and the Dem/media establishment are of course useful idiots as per usual.

As Sec of State Clinton was a joke wrt to Russia and the reset button.  Bill got fat donations for the Clinton Foundation and Podesta got millions in Russian bank stocks.  And after co-opting successfully a known quantity, who rationally can think that Putin would prefer Trump, who is in favor of more energy production, which strikes at the heart of Russia's economy?  It's all just more Dem/media posturing, disinformation, fake news, and sour grapes. 

I took a dump this morning and the fucking Russians took the last of my toilet paper from me.

[Inigima]

Holy shit holy shit holy shit

Russian Government Sought to Aid Trump’s Candidacy, According to Email https://nyti.ms/2u25MrS

Boy does that headline bury the lede. Don Jr was explicitly told via email that the Russian government was the source of the info and they were trying to influence the election.

At what point do we start talking treason?

[Fez]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

I don't think this is correct either, I'm not aware that campaign staff have to disclose all meetings with foreigners, or even that elected officials do, that would be kind of a xenophobic policy that I doubt exists.   There was nothing to ask the Feds about.  I assume these meetings had to be disclosed on the security clearance forms....but failure to do that is a long, long way from proving any collusion.  I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'material value'...material value to what and whom?  The Feds are also not interested in opposition research unless it provides evidence of a federal crime.

You don't have to disclose meetings with foreign agents (it depends on the kind of meeting); however, you do have to disclose (and it many cases it is illegal to) receiving items of material value from foreign. Receiving compromising information on an opponent is absolutely of material value to a campaign and is a type of in-kind donation.

Which is why when the Gore campaign received Bush's debate-prep work in 2000 they immediately turned it over to the FBI.

[Week]

10 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Lolz to all the Russians under the bed.  They are doing what they can to make lemonade after Trump's election, and the Dem/media establishment are of course useful idiots as per usual.

As Sec of State Clinton was a joke wrt to Russia and the reset button.  Bill got fat donations for the Clinton Foundation and Podesta got millions in Russian bank stocks.  And after co-opting successfully a known quantity, who rationally can think that Putin would prefer Trump, who is in favor of more energy production, which strikes at the heart of Russia's economy?  It's all just more Dem/media posturing, disinformation, fake news, and sour grapes. 

I took a dump this morning and the fucking Russians took the last of my toilet paper from me.

https://www.vox.com/vox-sentences/2017/7/10/15949828/vox-sentences-trump-jr-russians

Playing your partisan role with aplomb. What would it take for you to ever believe there was inappropriate behavior between Trump (& ancillaries) and Russia?

2 minutes ago, Fez said:

Which is why when the Gore campaign received Bush's debate-prep work in 2000 they immediately turned it over to the FBI.

In the current climate, we seem to confuse ethics and integrity with playing nice. Trump and his retinue are reject the value of ethics and integrity with glee -- and their supporters agree (mcb).

[Dr. Pepper]

18 minutes ago, Inigima said:

Holy shit holy shit holy shit

Russian Government Sought to Aid Trump’s Candidacy, According to Email https://nyti.ms/2u25MrS

Boy does that headline bury the lede. Don Jr was explicitly told via email that the Russian government was the source of the info and they were trying to influence the election.

At what point do we start talking treason?

Holy fucking shit.

It probably doesn't even matter.  Conservatives stand for nothing and they have now convinced themselves that Russia influencing our elections and hacking our systems is somehow a good thing.  Just read @Free Northman Reborn 's posts for examples.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

38 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

I took a dump this morning and the fucking Russians took the last of my toilet paper from me.

In Soviet Russia, Charmin squeezes you! What a country!

[Mexal]

1 hour ago, Inigima said:

Holy shit holy shit holy shit

Russian Government Sought to Aid Trump’s Candidacy, According to Email https://nyti.ms/2u25MrS

Boy does that headline bury the lede. Don Jr was explicitly told via email that the Russian government was the source of the info and they were trying to influence the election.

At what point do we start talking treason?

I'd get an immense amount of pleasure to watch Trump Jr and Kushner go down due to an email. The irony of that is delicious.

Schaudenfreude aside, this shit is serious. I don't know how you don't start talking treason soon. And I don't see how any conservative can spin this other than "it's the NYT, they're fake news". How can anyone say colluding with a foreign adversary to win the election is fine?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I love how the Fox News talking point goal posts keep shifting. From "there's no proof of collusion" to "well collusion isn't even a crime, is it?" Lulz. Break out the damage control.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 hours ago, mcbigski said:

And after co-opting successfully a known quantity, who rationally can think that Putin would prefer Trump, who is in favor of more energy production, which strikes at the heart of Russia's economy? 

Really? Trump has had connections with Russian mobsters for years, long before he ever ran for office. He's in favor of defunct energy, which plays right into Russia's wheelhouse. He's anti-green energy. If you're going to pull nuggets out of your ass, do us a favor and polish them before you post them up.

Putin has a long running feud with Clinton dating back to 2012. Trump is a businessman who has on numerous occasions expressed his admiration of the Russian oligarchy. It's a no brainer. 

[Fragile Bird]

I am watching Don Lemon on CNN and they are showing an interview they did with DT Jr after the Democrats claimed the attack on them was done by the Russians to help the Trump campaign. Lies, he says. 'This shows where their moral compass is. They'll say anything to win...Lies and more lies.'

And this is after receiving the email about the Russians doing stuff to help their campaign.

Eta: and right after the meeting with the Russian lawyer.

But will a Republican Congress and a Republican Senate give a flying fuck? I am torn between the idea revelations will become so bad that Trump's support will disappear and the idea the GOP won't do a damn thing.

[Altherion]

1 hour ago, Week said:

What would it take for you to ever believe there was inappropriate behavior between Trump (& ancillaries) and Russia?

At this point, I suspect many people who were at least ambivalent about Trump simply don't care anymore. It's the same deal as the boy who cried wolf: so much has been said on this topic that even if something genuinely incriminating was found (some meeting left off of some form or other doesn't qualify), it would simply be ignored.

[The Anti-Targ]

12 hours ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Have you ever read Dugin's The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia? It really looks like this is Putin's playbook and well worth a read. 

Never heard of the book. Probably would be an interesting read. Alas I will probably never get a chance to prioritise it for reading.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

At this point, I suspect many people who were at least ambivalent about Trump simply don't care anymore. It's the same deal as the boy who cried wolf: so much has been said on this topic that even if something genuinely incriminating was found (some meeting left off of some form or other doesn't qualify), it would simply be ignored.

When you look at the way this story has developed, I don't see how you could possibly define it as "the boy who cried wolf". It's been a laundry list that just continues to pile up. From Manafort to Flynn to Sessions to Kushner and now Donny Jr. Yeah, if you don't care about it one way or the other, nothing less than a scandalous smoking gun (like say leaked tax returns showing extensive Russian loans) is going to move the needle, but I don't see a lot of ambivalence regarding Trump. You're either a fan or an apologist, or you hate him. 

 We're not going to know what Mueller uncovers for a long time, but I'm willing to wait. I'm also pretty convinced that even if Mueller digs up some juicy turnips, it's not really going to matter. The GOP will not act on it in any meaningful way. We'll probably get a couple of sacrificial lambs tossed on the fire, but Donny Two Scoops will likely walk away unscathed. Hopefully it will get as high as Sessions. That would be just fine with me.  

[DMC]

So...a lot has happened in the past 30 or so hours since I last was here.  Still, I have a notification that I haven't gotten to and I feel obliged, try to keep it it brief.

23 hours ago, Altherion said:

As to Trump's amusing appeal to Russia last summer, he was not encouraging a foreign entity to acquire information on his opponent -- by that time the information did not exist in the US. He was urging them to return the information to us if they had already acquired it in the past.

No, the bolded is just wrong.  It's right there in his statement - had nothing to do with whether it was "acquired in the past."  He explicitly encouraged Russia to continue hacking Clinton's emails.  Any claim otherwise has zero credibility.

23 hours ago, Altherion said:

Thus, "very good reason" can be simply that he does not give them the deference that they're used to and even vague mention of their powers being reduced (as far as I can tell, he has not done anything yet) is enough to provoke them.

So, your position is all intelligence agencies have coordinated opposition to Trump because they are worried about being "slimmed down," or their powers being reduced, even though - as far as you tell - Trump has not done anything of the sort?  You belong at the Alex Jones logic table.

23 hours ago, Altherion said:

I am aware of the "fake news" on social networks, but I do not believe that its impact on the election was of the same magnitude as the release of emails from the DNC and from Podesta.

So what?  You previously said the Russians did not release any false information, now you admit they did.  None of us will ever know what had the greatest impact.

23 hours ago, Altherion said:

The foreign ones range from leaders of foreign countries preemptively commenting on the plans of presidential candidates when the latter touch their countries to random Macedonians who spread stories of dubious veracity not because they care about the outcome, but because this gets them paid. Why do you care so much about just one of these foreign entities?

This question is either very disingenuous or very stupid - if you don't know what the difference is between what Russia did and "random Macedonians" or regular comments by foreign leaders, then it's not worth having a conversation.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

14 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I'm pretty sure Altherion just said that no evidence could ever be uncovered that would cause him to believe the Trump campaign acted illegally and/or unethically wrt to Russian interference in the election.

Right. He's clearly a Trump apologist. I guess we should give him some credit for both the Heculean nature of this task and for his consistency. In this particular instance I think it requires channeling the noble ostrich to such a degree that we should be concerned about his ability to breath. 

[DMC]

9 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Vox had a good article on this take - why the leakers matter more than the leak.

Read that article, had pretty good logic for the three motivations for the leak.  Considering Patrick Bateman had to change his story within 24 hours - almost certainly because of the information provided by the sources - it seems most likely that Kushner threw his brother-in-law under the bus, and/or Bateman fell on his sword.  Either way, that's quite interesting.

17 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Right. He's clearly a Trump apologist. I guess we should give him some credit for both the Heculean nature of this task and for his consistency. In this particular instance I think it requires channeling the noble ostrich to such a degree that we should be concerned about his ability to breath. 

I don't envy the mental gymnastics and, as you mentioned above, changing of the goal posts Trump defenders have to continue to engage in.  However, anyone one that says this is "standard practice" for campaigns has no idea WTF they're talking about.

[DireWolfSpirit]

13 hours ago, Mexal said:

Yup. Doesn't look good for Donald Jr or Kushner. These people are idiots. The one thing I'm wondering about is that the leaks came from the WH. Is there something worse that's coming and they wanted to put this out first? I don't know. It's just weird this isn't from the investigation.

This is what, the 3rd or 4th time Kushner failed to report a contact with Russians on his SF-86? I can't see how he gets out of going to jail other than pardon. 

Yep this is key. The idea being floated that sources "close to the campaign" leaked this to the NYT in a way that puts the focus on Don Jr (who has less legal exposure) , and notice its working so far. Kushner and Manafort are mentioned in most reports as "also attended (meeting)", but nearly all the emphasis gets put on Don Jr. 

By the way, it was just mentioned on MSNBC that Manafort (the Campaign Chair at that time) had lunch with Donald (Sr.) the same day as this mtg with the Putin puppet (Natasha or whatever her name is). 

And the White House wants us to believe Donald Sr. "Knew Nothing!" about this meeting, which was in the Trump Tower in NY?

I hope Mueller is as good as everyone says he is, because someone needs to take this crook (Trump) down, down, down!

[Mexal]

4 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Yep this is key. The idea being floated that sources "close to the campaign" leaked this to the NYT in a way that puts the focus on Don Jr (who has less legal exposure) , and notice its working so far. Kushner and Manafort are mentioned in most reports as "also attended (meeting)", but nearly all the emphasis gets put on Don Jr. 

By the way, it was just mentioned on MSNBC that Manafort (the Campaign Chair at that time) had lunch with Donald (Sr.) the same day as this mtg with the Putin puppet (Natasha or whatever her name is). 

And the White House wants us to believe Donald Sr. "Knew Nothing!" about this meeting, which was in the Trump Tower in NY?

I hope Mueller is as good as everyone says he is, because someone needs to take this crook (Trump) down, down, down!

What's even more interesting is that Trump first asks Clinton for her missing 33,000 emails 10-15 minutes after the meeting with the Russian lawyer took place (assuming the meeting was 20-30 minutes as described and started at 4pm).

[Toth]

15 minutes ago, Mexal said:

What's even more interesting is that Trump first asks Clinton for her missing 33,000 emails 10-15 minutes after the meeting with the Russian lawyer took place (assuming the meeting was 20-30 minutes as described and started at 4pm).

I think this implication just broke Keith Olbermann. I happened to stumble upon his Twitter account yesterday and he posted the timestamps a dozen times. Either that or he doesn't know how to use Twitter...

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I'm sure he will.  But, it's not illegal to meet with people to get dirt on your opponent, opposition research is a well known niche;  I don't see it as much different as the ex British spook who was digging up Russian dirt on Trump for the Clintons/Democrats, by....meeting with Russians.   Or, any different actually, except that this lawyer didn't provide any dirt on Clinton unlike the dirt that was provided by the British spook's Russian connections.

Except those two things are completely different. Look, other posters have already addressed everything I would have responded with, so I'll simply ask, "What will it take for you to realize these people are lying crooks?" Because from perspective it's pretty clear at this point that they are.

 

Also, unrelated but funny, it looks like Don Jr.'s lawyer is a mob lawyer. I wonder how they met? It couldn't at all be related to Don Sr.'s numerous mob times, could it?