Sergey Dukman Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Hell guys, Do you think Stannis will turn on Jon after R+J=S theory confirmed in Winds of Winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth the raven, Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Sergey Dukman said: Hell guys, Do you think Stannis will turn on Jon after R+J=S theory confirmed in Winds of Winter? It could just as easily be Brandon + Lyanna = Jon; or Mance + Lyanna = Jon. But in the end, Stannis still believes he's the true king. Stannis might get the thought in his head that even if R+L=J that he is still the true heir. Jon is still a bastard. A royal bastard but still a bastard. For the record, I think Aerys made Viserys his heir and Rhaegar's children were removed from the line of inheritance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Dukman Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said: It could just as easily be Brandon + Lyanna = Jon; or Mance + Lyanna = Jon. But in the end, Stannis still believes he's the true king. Stannis might get the thought in his head that even if R+L=J that he is still the true heir. Jon is still a bastard. A royal bastard but still a bastard. For the record, I think Aerys made Viserys his heir and Rhaegar's children were removed from the line of inheritance. In my mind as in the books, the Iron Throne belongs to Baratheons. Targeryens has no claim to the Throne. They have lost it. I just hope that Stannis and Jon will have a good chemistry to the very end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheThreeEyedCow Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 R+J=S? I'm not entirely sure who you mean. Assuming that R+ L = J is confirmed, and they bump into each other again, Stannis will expect Jon Targ to bend the knee. He may even have him rise as a Stark if it suited them both. Which it may do. For Stannis, a Jon Stark is a lot more useful than a Jon Targ. Impossible to say anything with an ounce of conviction though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth the raven, Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, Sergey Dukman said: In my mind as in the books, the Iron Throne belongs to Baratheons. Targeryens has no claim to the Throne. They have lost it. I just hope that Stannis and Jon will have a good chemistry to the very end. If you go with that line of thinking the Lannisters outsmarted the Baratheons therefore the throne belongs to them. Nobody says you have to win by fair combat on the battlefield. The Lannisters, with the help of Walder Frey, Mace Tyrell, and Roose Bolton beat the challengers and took the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 29 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said: Brandon + Lyanna = Jon Timewise it couldn't. 29 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said: Mance + Lyanna = Jon Timewise it couldn't. 4 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said: If you go with that line of thinking the Lannisters outsmarted the Baratheons therefore the throne belongs to them. Nobody says you have to win by fair combat on the battlefield. The Lannisters, with the help of Walder Frey, Mace Tyrell, and Roose Bolton beat the challengers and took the throne. Actually since the King is still named Baratheon and not Lannister the Baratheons are still the royal dynasty. For the record, I think Aerys made Viserys his heir and Rhaegar's children were removed from the line of inheritance. He could had done it but no one seems to mention something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I don't think it would matter to stannis that much. He didn't have the hatred for the targs like his brother did. Sure he fought against them but he didn't believe he needed to rid the world of them like robert did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Lovejoy Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 40 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said: R+J=S? I'm not entirely sure who you mean. Assuming that R+ L = J is confirmed, and they bump into each other again, Stannis will expect Jon Targ to bend the knee. He may even have him rise as a Stark if it suited them both. Which it may do. For Stannis, a Jon Stark is a lot more useful than a Jon Targ. Impossible to say anything with an ounce of conviction though. Agreed, though I think Stannis may be gone before R+L=J becomes public knowledge (the readers may find out before Jon or the rest of Westeros does). In the event that King Stannis is still around, I don't see the parentage reveal being a big deal to him as I don't see Jon trying to usurp Stannis' claim - they would both work together to defeat the Others and restore peace to Westeros. Jon doesn't care to rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Stannis: I am also Targ. Could I ride a dragon? (Pause) Mace Tyrell sieged Storm's End but he couldn't take it. I defeated Victorian Greyjoy. Did I tell you before how I took Dragonstone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said: It could just as easily be Brandon + Lyanna = Jon; or Mance + Lyanna = Jon. But in the end, Stannis still believes he's the true king. Stannis might get the thought in his head that even if R+L=J that he is still the true heir. Jon is still a bastard. A royal bastard but still a bastard. For the record, I think Aerys made Viserys his heir and Rhaegar's children were removed from the line of inheritance. No, it can't. Not easily, not any way unless you twist logic into a pretzel and dismiss all the carefully laid hints and all the foreshadowing the author has put in the books. And Stannis most definitely thinks he is the king because in the current timeline, he is Robert's heir, and Robert was king. What Aerys may have done is immaterial at the mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknownfinger Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Jon is not going to tell many people at all so I doubt Stannis will ever find out. Jon finding out he is a Targ is something he will wrestle with mostly alone. Dany will most likely find out and maybe he tells some of his siblings but that's about it. Bran and the Three Eyed Crow most certainly want to have a chat with Stannis but I think that is more about the fight against The Others and using Theon as a chess piece against Euron rather than killing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallowedMarcus Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I believe by the time it is revealed that R+L=J (if it is true) Stannis will be dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredwin Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Actually since the King is still named Baratheon and not Lannister the Baratheons are still the royal dynasty. Only in name, without opposition the Lannister's would inherit it through marriage and mishap, eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giant snake Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Probably retroactively make it into a matrilineal succession. Why not? The Targaryans already had the precedent of incest so it wouldn't be hard to make the legal loopwhile by which he is half-Stark and therefore that he can use that bloodline as a claim to Winterfell, assuming Stannis sticks around much longer and also assuming that he had an inclination to give Also we probably have to assume that by this point, nobody knows where Arya or Rickon still exist. Lots of assumptions. I think Stannis is basically irrelevant to Jon's story at this point. I have wondered for a while when Rickon is going to come back after his time in the wild islands, raised by Osha and God knows who else. It would actually be funny for the next Lannister generation to assume that he would be dull and easily tricked (with self imposed constraints because of his interpretation of honor) and then HOLY SHIT this Rickon guy is an oldschool Stark who headbutts people who disagree with him and sits with a battleaxe while holding court! That would be entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 6 hours ago, Sergey Dukman said: Hell guys, Do you think Stannis will turn on Jon after R+J=S theory confirmed in Winds of Winter? It is immaterial unless Jon do something stupid like crowning himself king . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Stannis is pretty legalistic. He believes himself to be the rightful king because his brother, Robert, the past king left no legitimate heirs Stannis is the next brother in line House Baratheon legitimately holds the Iron Throne by right of conquest via Robert's Rebellion Now, a similar case can be made for Little King Tommen: His brother, Joffrey, the last king had no heirs, never having even consummated his marriage He's the next brother in line House Lannister legitimately holds the Iron Throne by right of conquest in the War of the 5 Kings Now, there's the argument that Daenerys Targaryon is the next rightful occupant of the Iron Throne because Her brother Rhaegal was next in line following their father Aerys, and he died, and then Viserys her older brother died, and Daenerys is the next in line, as well as the last of Aerys's line A woman can become the ruling Queen Right of conquest is illegitimate Stannis's claim to legitimacy rests on the premise that right of conquest is more important than parentage. Thus, if he were to be consistent, he could only accept Queen Daenerys if she defeated him and the Lannisters and anyone else giving her trouble. Jon Snow? Stark? Targaryon? He might be a contender IFF Rhaegar had not been removed from the line of succession before Aerys's death (possible; accounts vary) Jon / Jaehaerys was proven to legitimately be Rhaegar's son and no bastard (possible; zero info on this so far, but Samwell is in the Citadel with its extensive library, which seems to also be a repository of all legal documents) Jon defeats Stannis and all comers (unlikely; he's got his eyes on the North and the threat from the Others, not the big iron chair) Jon is not dead. (This actually ought to be point zero....) I conclude that it's possible, maybe likely, that Dany will convince Stannis to stand down and even bend the knee, but Jon? Probably never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 21 hours ago, Sergey Dukman said: Hell guys, Do you think Stannis will turn on Jon after R+J=S theory confirmed in Winds of Winter? If by R+J=S you actualy mean R+L=J, then I think that no, Stannis will not act against Jon Snow on such grounds alone. 1 - Jon Snow is a member of the Nights Watch and forswore any "temporal" claims. "Thank you uncle for allowing me to make an informed decision about my life" - sarcasm. 2 - Jon Snow is a bastard and with Daenerys and Faegon around no Targ sympathiser would care to spit in his direction. Not to mention that where they are now, the Wall and the north - such Targ sympathisers are not exactly plentiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I am also curious what R+J=S is. What theory is this? You guys are talking about entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Robb + Jeyne = Stannis, naturally, he's the real heir of the Starks, sent to the past by Bran's magic and secretely adopted by the Baratheons. This reveal making him the King of the North, he's likely to rebel against Jon King of the Seven Kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Lord Freypie said: Robb + Jeyne = Stannis, naturally, he's the real heir of the Starks, sent to the past by Bran's magic and secretely adopted by the Baratheons. Well, why not? ;-) Frankly, it's less outlandish than a lot of stuff I've read here (although not under this particular topic) lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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