The Battle for Sea Dragon Point

[Son of Man]

Please review the chapter "The Kings of Winter" in The World of Ice and Fire.  It starts on page 137.

1. The Starks called themselves the Kings of Winter but they actually did not have complete control of the north until approximately 1,000 years ago when the Boltons finally bent their knees. 
2. The Starks destroyed many ancient families in the thousands of years it took to win the north.
3. The ability to warg was not originally a Stark trait.  The Starks fought the Warg King for control of Sea Dragon Point.  The Starks won and killed the WK and his sons.  They took the daughters as their spoils of war and more than likely had children with them.  Possibly this and not the Blackwoods are the source of the warg ability. 
4. The Warg King was allied with the Children of the Forests.  Perhaps the Warg King was one of the so-called wisest of the races who took part in drafting the peace treaty with the Children.  The Starks killed the CotF who were allied with the WK.

We must ask, are the CotF really interested in helping Bran?  It appears to me that they were ancient enemies, the children and the starks.

 

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

The children of the forest and the first men had compatibility issues.  I would love to know how the Warg king managed to get along with the children.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Because the first men haven't attacked them in thousands of years and they don't want the entire world to be killed by the White Walkers.

Basically just listen to what they said to Bran.

[The Hoare]

I have deep suspicions about the CotF motives, but I don't think they would judge someone for what their ancestors did thousands of years ago

[Kevin Brightflame]

Bran is the successor to the 3 Eyed Raven so I would imagine they would forgive any potential issues they had with the Starks thousands of years ago

[Damsel in Distress]

1/1000 is a skin changer.  1/1000 of the skin changers is a greenseer.  Skin changing is not that rare.  The genes could have come from more than one source family.   One out of every thousand northerners are skin changers.  Untrained to be sure.  The talent goes undeveloped and the person may live a lifetime never knowing what they could do.  There will be at least another greenseer if the population is at least 1 million people. 

 

[elder brother jonothor dar]

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 4:22 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

 There will be at least another greenseer if the population is at least 1 million people. 

 

Well if the population was 2 million there should be 2 but that is just statistics.

1/2 children will be male and 1/2 will be female however, 1/2 children will be same sex as their sibling, 1/8 that 4 children in a row are the same sex.   It is more likley that 0 are greenseers born in a generation than having multiple ones running around.

Also factor in the mortality rate of the time of 1/4 die in infancy?  (Pure guess work) For every 4million population you would only get 3 greenseers it's easy to see why the numbers are so low

[Free Northman Reborn]

On Invalid Date at 2:17 AM, Ascension of the Metatron said:

Please review the chapter "The Kings of Winter" in The World of Ice and Fire.  It starts on page 137.

1. The Starks called themselves the Kings of Winter but they actually did not have complete control of the north until approximately 1,000 years ago when the Boltons finally bent their knees. 
2. The Starks destroyed many ancient families in the thousands of years it took to win the north.
3. The ability to warg was not originally a Stark trait.  The Starks fought the Warg King for control of Sea Dragon Point.  The Starks won and killed the WK and his sons.  They took the daughters as their spoils of war and more than likely had children with them.  Possibly this and not the Blackwoods are the source of the warg ability. 
4. The Warg King was allied with the Children of the Forests.  Perhaps the Warg King was one of the so-called wisest of the races who took part in drafting the peace treaty with the Children.  The Starks killed the CotF who were allied with the WK.

We must ask, are the CotF really interested in helping Bran?  It appears to me that they were ancient enemies, the children and the starks.

 

 

1. Not quite. The Red Kings bent the knee as the first Andals were crossing the Narrow Sea in their long ships. So that was before the Andals conquered the Vale, before the Rape of the Three Sisters 2000 years ago, and long before the Andals invaded the Riverlands, West, Reach, Stormlands, Dorne or the Iron Isles. We are likely talking between 2000-3000 years ago. The later Bolton rebellions were just that. Rebellions. Similar to the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion in the Westerlands during Tywin's youth, or the Duskendale rebellion in the Crownlands, the Skagosi rebellion 100 years ago, etc. That doesn't mean the Starks weren't already ruling all of the North at the time. Just that one of their vassals revolted.

2. Indeed.

3. The ability to Warg was a general First Men trait, taught to them by the Children probably during the Dawn Age, in the years after the Pact. While the one in a thousand and one in a million quotes are likely not meant to be statistically accurate, they are intended to convey the comparative rarity of the respective gifts of skinchanging and greenseeing. The point being that there were likely hundreds of families with skinchanging gifts during the Age of Heroes. Just because the Warg king was a skinchanger does not mean the Starks were not skinchangers too, as was Gaven Greywolf and possibly the Master of Ravens at Winterfell, the kennelmaster at the Dreadfort and the Master of Horse in the Rills, as totally random examples. And the random peasant living in some hovel in the Wolfswood. Skinchanging was fairly common. No need to think it all came from the Warg King's line.

[The Commentator]

There is no information that says a human skin changer can control a dead body.  If we jump the data gap and think a human skin changer can control dead corpses, it could help explain how the people of old were able to fight the White Walkers.  

[Free Northman Reborn]

6 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

There is no information that says a human skin changer can control a dead body.  If we jump the data gap and think a human skin changer can control dead corpses, it could help explain how the people of old were able to fight the White Walkers.  

There are vague hints of for example necromancers operating from the Banefort etc. Of course, we don't know what really transpired there, but the way Morgon Banefort's death and subsequent "vengeance" is described seems awfully similar to how a skinchanger assumes a second life in an animal - in Morgon's case it being in one of the lions that exacted vengeance on his enemies after his death.

So yes, we don't really know how necromancy plays into it. Maybe it is a corrupted version of skinchanging.