TyrionTLannister

Sansa's Ultimate Fate

63 posts in this topic

In this thread, I will attempt to put forward a theory about Sansa’s ultimate fate. The theory is made up of several related predictions, so I will split it up into a few posts and begin each post by specifying which part of the theory I will be dealing with in bold, followed by the evidence for each prediction.

At Winterfell, Littlefinger will fatally stab Sansa after she exposes him. Arya will later find Sansa in a bed of blood, and kill her sister with Needle to end her suffering.

Arya will kill Sansa

Quote

“Didn’t you ever have a brother you wanted to kill?” He laughed again. “Or maybe a sister?” He must have seen something in her face then, for he leaned closer. “Sansa. That’s it, isn’t it? The wolf bitch wants to kill the pretty bird.” (ASOS Arya IX)

This could foreshadow that Arya will kill Sansa.

Quote

“For true.” He smiled. “If I took it away, no doubt I’d find a morningstar hidden under your pillow within the fortnight. Try not to stab your sister, whatever the provocation.” (AGOT Arya II)

This statement would be made ironic if Arya ends up stabbing her sister with Needle.

Quote

Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa … Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you … and I need both of you, gods help me." (AGOT Arya II)

Ned compares Arya and Sansa to the sun and the moon. In the next chapter, we get this:

Quote

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi," the Lysene girl said. "Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return." (AGOT Daenerys III)

We are told that the sun “killed” the moon. So this could foreshadow that Arya will kill Sansa.

Quote

They were all staring at him, but it was Sansa's look that cut. "She is of the north. She deserves better than a butcher.”

He left the room with his eyes burning and his daughter's wails echoing in his ears, and found the direwolf pup where they chained her. Ned sat beside her for a while. "Lady," he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur.

Shortly, Jory brought him Ice.

When it was over, he said, "Choose four men and have them take the body north. Bury her at Winterfell.” (AGOT Eddard III)

Lady’s fate could foreshadow Sansa’s. Lady was killed by a Stark to spare her a worse death at the hands of an enemy, and though Lady wasn’t killed at Winterfell, she was buried there. 

Sansa and Lyanna

Quote

"Lyanna was beautiful," Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.

"She was," Eddard Stark agreed,  beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time. He lifted the sword, held it out between them. "Arya, what did you think to do with this … Needle? Who did you hope to skewer? Your sister? Septa Mordane? Do you know the first thing about sword fighting?" (AGOT Arya II)

Quote

It was as if she had become a ghost, dead before her time. (AGOT Sansa V)

“Dead before her time” is a phrase used to describe both Lyanna and Sansa in AGOT. This could be a clue that they will meet similar deaths (being found in a bed of blood by a sibling and dying shortly afterwards). Also, Ned asks Arya if she hoped to skewer Sansa with Needle, which could foreshadow Arya actually doing so someday. 

The many similarities between Arya and Lyanna lead many to think that Arya, like her aunt, will tragically die young. However, while Arya and Lyanna are very similar in their personalities and appearances, it is Sansa's life which has echoed Lyanna's in some remarkable ways. Both were betrothed to a Baratheon, both were (supposedly) held captive in the South by the ruling family, both had their love for a prince lead to the deaths of their fathers and brothers, both were involved in tourneys during which they are offered roses, and so on.

Even Ned directly compares the two:

Quote

Yet even as he said the words, he remembered that chill morning on the barrowlands, and Robert's talk of sending hired knives after the Targaryen princess. He remembered Rhaegar's infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away, as he had turned away in Darry's audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once. (AGOT Eddard IV)

He is thinking about Lyanna in the context of her being in a bed of blood, which suggests Sansa will also end up in a bed of blood.

Quote

She dreamt of footsteps on the tower stair, an ominous scraping of leather on stone as a man climbed slowly toward her bedchamber, step by step. All she could do was huddle behind her door and listen, trembling, as he came closer and closer. It was Ser Ilyn Payne, she knew, coming for her with Ice in his hand, coming to take her head. There was no place to run, no place to hide, no way to bar the door. (AGOT Sansa VI)

The idea of a man climbing up a tower stair echoes the image of Ned climbing the Tower of Joy to Lyanna, suggesting that Sansa, like Lyanna, will be found in a bed of blood. Sansa thinks that death, symbolized by Ilyn Payne, is coming for her, suggesting that the person who finds her (Arya) will kill her.

Littlefinger will fatally stab Sansa

Quote

when she reached the door of her bedchamber she could not bear to enter. The very walls of the room made her feel trapped; even with the window opened wide it felt as though there were no air to breathe. (...) Yet none of it made her feel less fearful. A stab went through her, so sharp that Sansa sobbed and clutched at her belly. (ACOK Sansa IV)

Sansa cannot bear to enter her bedchamber, which could be a hint that she will die in her bedchamber. Shortly afterwards, Sansa imagines that she is stabbed in the belly, which could foreshadow Littlefinger stabbing her in the belly. Later in the chapter, Sansa has an interesting dream before her first flowering:

Quote

That night Sansa dreamed of the riot again. The mob surged around her, shrieking, a maddened beast with a thousand faces. Everywhere she turned she saw faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks. She wept and told them she had never done them hurt, yet they dragged her from her horse all the same. "No," she cried, "no, please, don't, don't," but no one paid her any heed. She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. Women swarmed over her like weasels, pinching her legs and kicking her in the belly, and someone hit her in the face and she felt her teeth shatter. Then she saw the bright glimmer of steel. The knife plunged into her belly and tore and tore and tore, until there was nothing left of her down there but shiny wet ribbons.

When she woke, the pale light of morning was slanting through her window, yet she felt as sick and achy as if she had not slept at all. There was something sticky on her thighs. When she threw back the blanket and saw the blood, all she could think was that her dream had somehow come true. She remembered the knives inside her, twisting and ripping. She squirmed away in horror, kicking at the sheets and falling to the floor, breathing raggedly, naked, bloodied, and afraid.

The dream consists of Sansa being repeatedly stabbed in the belly by a mob. The descriptions of the people in the mob are highly evocative of Arya: they are described as having "a thousand faces" and "faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks", which describes Arya perfectly due to her association with the Faceless Men; they are also compared to weasels, and Arya goes by the name "Weasel" for much of ACOK. This suggests that Arya will kill Sansa. Then Sansa wakes up in a bed of blood in her bedchamber, which could foreshadow her dying in a bed of blood in her bedchamber. 

The chapter ends on an ominous note:

Quote

“I see flowering hasn’t made you any brighter,” said Cersei. “Sansa, permit me to share a bit of womanly wisdom with you on this very special day. Love is poison. A sweet poison, yes, but it will kill you all the same.” (ACOK Sansa IV)

Cersei tells Sansa love will kill her. And if Littlefinger, who loves Sansa, ends up bringing about her death, then there is even more truth to Cersei's advice than we knew.

There are many more references to Sansa's belly that suggest Littlefinger will fatally stab her in the belly. Alone, they don't mean much, but the sheer quantity of these references is staggering.

Quote

She knocked aside his arm and punched the steel into his bowels. “Laugh,” she snarled at him. He moaned instead. “Laugh,” she repeated, grabbing his throat with one hand and stabbing at his belly with the other.

...

“What will you do now, my lady?”

“Cover him.”

“About the girl, I meant. The Lady Sansa.” (AFFC Brienne IV)

Brienne repeatedly stabs Shagwell in the belly, killing him. When she is asked what she will do now, she replies that she'll cover his corpse, not realizing that she was actually being asked about Sansa. This could be a way of creating an association between Shagwell in this scene and Sansa. So Shagwell being fatally stabbed in the belly could point to Sansa being fatally stabbed in the belly. 

Here a few more examples along these lines:

Quote

Lord Petyr came up beside her, cheerful as ever. "Good morrow. The salt air is bracing, don't you think? It always sharpens my appetite." He put a sympathetic arm about her shoulders. "Are you quite well? You look so pale.”

”It’s only my tummy. The seasickness.” (ASOS Sansa VI)

In ASOS, Sansa complains to Littlefinger about her queasy tummy, which can be explained from the writer's perspective by her proximity to Littlefinger, who might one day stab her through it. 

Quote

He was studying her over his own goblet, his bright grey-green eyes full of . . . was it amusement? Or something else? Sansa was not certain. "Grisel," he called to the old woman, "bring some food up. Nothing too heavy, my lady has a tender tummy. Some fruit might serve, perhaps. Oswell's brought some oranges and pomegranates from the King.” (ASOS Sansa VI)

Later in ASOS, Littlefinger makes a reference to Sansa's "tender tummy", which is interesting in light of this theory.

Quote

"I do not! Let my porridge fly!" This time Robert flung the bowl, porridge and honey and all. Petyr Baelish ducked aside nimbly, but Maester Colemon was not so quick. The wooden bowl caught him square in the chest, and its contents exploded upward over his face and shoulders. He yelped in a most unmaesterlike fashion, while Alayne turned to soothe the little lordling, but too late. The fit was on him. A pitcher of milk went flying as his hand caught it, flailing. When he tried to rise he knocked his chair backwards and fell on top of it. One foot caught Alayne in the belly, so hard it knocked the wind from her. "Oh, gods be good," she heard Petyr say, disgusted. (AFFC Alayne I)

In AFFC, Sansa is hit in the belly shortly before a reference to Littlefinger, which could foreshadow Littlefinger striking her in the belly with a knife.

Quote

Sansa dug her nails into her hand. She could feel the fear in her tummy, twisting and pinching, worse every day. (ACOK Sansa IV)

The sight of the food made Sansa feel ill. Her tummy was tied in a knot. (ACOK Sansa IV)

The invitation seemed innocent enough, but every time Sansa read it her tummy tightened into a knot. (ASOS Sansa I)

There are a lot of references to the pain in Sansa's tummy in her chapters, which strengthen this theory.

Quote

The Titan of Braavos. Old Nan had told them stories of the Titan back in Winterfell. He was a giant as tall as a mountain, and whenever Braavos stood in danger he would wake with fire in his eyes, his rocky limbs grinding and groaning as he waded out into the sea to smash the enemies. "The Braavosi feed him on the juicy pink flesh of little highborn girls," Nan would end, and Sansa would give a stupid squeak. (AFFC Arya I)

Old Nan used to say that the Titan feeds on the juicy pink flesh of little highborn girls, and GRRM makes a point of mentioning that this really frightened Sansa. The Titan of Braavos is the sigil of Littlefinger’s House, so this could foreshadow that Littlefinger will bring about Sansa’s death.

Quote

He took her safe all the way to the corridor outside her bedchamber.

"Thank you, my lord," Sansa said meekly.

The Hound caught her by the arm and leaned close. "The things I told you tonight," he said, his voice sounding even rougher than usual. "If you ever tell Joffrey … your sister, your father … any of them …"

"I won't," Sansa whispered. "I promise."

It was not enough. "If you ever tell anyone," he finished, "I'll kill you." (AGOT Sansa II)

Outside a bedchamber, the Hound warns Sansa that he’ll kill her if she tells anyone else about his secret. This could point to Littlefinger deciding to kill Sansa in a bedchamber after she exposes him. I might just be reading too much into this, but keep in mind that chapter ends tend to contain the most foreshadowing, especially the ones early in AGOT. 

Quote

She remembered a summer's snow in Winterfell when Arya and Bran had ambushed her as she emerged from the keep one morning. They'd each had a dozen snowballs to hand, and she'd had none. Bran had been perched on the roof of the covered bridge, out of reach, but Sansa had chased Arya through the stables and around the kitchen until both of them were breathless. She might even have caught her, but she'd slipped on some ice. Her sister came back to see if she was hurt. When she said she wasn't, Arya hit her in the face with another snowball, but Sansa grabbed her leg and pulled her down and was rubbing snow in her hair when Jory came along and pulled them apart, laughing. (ASOS Sansa VII)

Sansa remembers a summer's snow in Winterfell when she played with Arya and Bran, which could foreshadow all three of them being present at Winterfell at the time of her death. Bran is out of reach, implying that he'll manage to keep himself safe at this crucial juncture. Sansa and Arya run on ice, which could be a metaphor them being in a very precarious situation with Littlefinger. Sansa slips on some ice, which could foreshadow her failing to manage the situation properly and falling prey to Littlefinger. Arya then throws a snowball at Sansa, which could foreshadow Arya killing Sansa after Littlefinger mortally wounds her. 

Mercy-killing Sansa

There are a few instances of Arya mercy-killing people who have been fatally stabbed in the belly:

Quote

He had his sword in his right hand and her arm in his left, but her own hands were free, so she jerked his knife from its sheath and sheathed it again in his belly, twisting.

...

“You killed this one too,” he told Arya. “Pricked him in his bowels, that’s the end of him. He’ll be a long time dying, though.”

...

“You remember where the heart is?” the Hound asked.

She nodded. The squire rolled his eyes. “Mercy.”

Needle slipped between his ribs and gave it to him. (ASOS Arya XIII)

The manner of the squire's death seems to foreshadow the manner of Sansa's death right down to the smallest detail. Arya stabs the squire in the belly and twists the knife, which could foreshadow that Littlefinger will stab Sansa in the belly and twist the knife. Arya then pierces his heart with Needle to end his suffering, which could foreshadow Arya doing likewise with Sansa.

Quote

In the center of the temple she found the water she had heard; a pool ten feet across, black as ink and lit by dim red candles. Beside it sat a young man in a silvery cloak, weeping softly. She watched him dip a hand in the water, sending scarlet ripples racing across the pool. When he drew his fingers back he sucked them, one by one. He must be thirsty. There were stone cups along the rim of the pool. Arya filled one and brought it to him, so he could drink. The young man stared at her for a long moment when she offered it to him. "Valar morghulis," he said.

"Valar dohaeris," she replied.

He drank deep, and dropped the cup into the pool with a soft plop. Then he pushed himself to his feet, swaying, holding his belly. For a moment Arya thought he was going to fall. It was only then that she saw the dark stain below his belt, spreading as she watched. ”You’re stabbed," she blurted, but the man paid her no mind. He lurched unsteadily toward the wall and crawled into an alcove onto a hard stone bed. When Arya peered around, she saw other alcoves too. On some there were old people sleeping. (AFFC Arya I)

Arya's first kill in the House of Black and White even consists of her giving a cloaked man who has been stabbed in the belly the gift of mercy with the water in the pool when he indicates that he wants to die, after which the man moves to a bed where he can die. This could foreshadow Sansa moving to a bed to die in peace after she has been stabbed in the belly, and Arya giving her the gift of mercy when Sansa asks her to. 

Quote

Dobber wrestled a man off the walk, and Lommy smashed his head with a rock before he could rise, and hooted until he saw the knife in Dobber's belly and realized he wouldn't be getting up either. (ACOK Arya IV)

In an Arya chapter, Lommy manages to kill an enemy and rejoices until he sees that the enemy fatally stabbed his friend in the belly. This could point to Arya rejoicing after she kills Littlefinger (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/112008-arya-not-sansa-is-the-the-maid-that-will-slay-littlefinger-the-savage-giant/) until she learns that he fatally stabbed Sansa in the belly.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Sansa will consider throwing herself from her window after she is stabbed to put an end to her suffering.

In case you think it would out of character for her to do so, remember that Sansa has already considered suicide a few times:

Quote

Perhaps I will die too, she told herself, and the thought did not seem so terrible to her. If she flung herself from the window, she could put an end to her suffering, and in the years to come the singers would write songs of her grief. Her body would lie on the stones below, broken and innocent, shaming all those who had betrayed her. **Sansa went so far as to cross the bedchamber and throw open the shutters . . . but then her courage left her, and she ran back to her bed, sobbing.** (AGOT Sansa VI)

Quote

The outer parapet came up to her chin, but along the inner edge of the walk was nothing, nothing but a long plunge to the bailey seventy or eighty feet below. All it would take was a shove, she told herself. He was standing right there, right there, smirking at her with those fat wormlips. You could do it, she told herself. You could. **Do it right now. It wouldn’t even matter if she went over with him. It wouldn’t matter at all.** (AGOT Sansa VI)

And these aren’t the only instances in which Sansa faces the possibility of falling to her death from a great height:

Quote

Yet none of it made her feel less fearful. A stab went through her, so sharp that Sansa sobbed and clutched at her belly. She might have fallen, but a shadow moved suddenly, and strong fingers grabbed her arm and steadied her.

She grabbed a merlon for support, her fingers scrabbling at the rough stone. "Let go of me," she cried. "Let go.”

”The little bird thinks she has wings, does she? Or do you mean to end up crippled like that brother of yours?” (ACOK Sansa IV)

In ACOK, after Sansa imagines that she is stabbed, she nearly falls to the ground, which could point to her considering throwing herself to her death after she is fatally stabbed. This would create an interesting parallel, which the Hound draws attention to, between Sansa and her brother Bran, who was himself thrown out of a tower window. This might be intentional on George’s part.

Quote

One more stair took them to an oaken door banded with iron. "Be strong now, my Jonquil, you are almost there." When Dontos lifted the bar and pulled open the door, Sansa felt a cold breeze on her face. She passed through twelve feet of wall, and then she was outside the castle, standing at the top of the cliff. Below was the river, above the sky, and one was as black as the other.

”We must climb down,” Ser Dontos said. "At the bottom, a man is waiting to row us out to the ship.”

”I’ll fall." Bran had fallen, and he had loved to climb. (ASOS Sansa V)

In ASOS, while Sansa is escaping from King’s Landing, she is forced to climb down a cliff, and she worries that she will fall. She is once again reminded of her brother Bran, who was thrown from a tower window while climbing. 

Quote

Lysa threw herself into Littlefinger's arms, sobbing. As they hugged, Sansa crawled from the Moon Door on hands and knees and wrapped her arms around the nearest pillar. She could feel her heart pounding. There was snow in her hair and her right shoe was missing. It must have fallen. She shuddered, and hugged the pillar tighter. (ASOS Sansa VII)

Later in ASOS, her aunt Lysa tries to throw her from the Moon Door, and Sansa comes quite close to falling to her death. 

Similar to all the references to her belly in her chapters, these are too numerous to ignore. Surely they must be leading up to something

Quote

"The northern girl. Winterfell's daughter. We heard she killed the king with a spell, and afterward changed into a wolf with big leathery wings like a bat, and flew out a tower window.” (ASOS Arya XIII)

This furthers foreshadow that Sansa will consider throwing herself out a tower window.

Littlefinger will stab Sansa with a knife that he pulls from her cloak.

Quote

Sansa threw a plain grey cloak over her shoulders and picked up the knife she used to cut her meat. If it is some trap, better that I die than let them hurt me more, she told herself. She hid the blade under her cloak.

...

And what will they do to me? Sansa found herself thinking of Lady again. She could smell out falsehood, she could, but she was dead, Father had killed her, on account of Arya. She drew the knife and held it before her with both hands.

“Are you going to stab me?” Dontos asked.

“I will,” she said. “Tell me who sent you.” (ACOK Sansa II)

Sansa hides a knife under her cloak before meeting with someone who is working for Littlefinger, which could foreshadow her hiding a knife under her cloak before meeting with Littlefinger prior to her stabbing. She is also reminded of the manner of Lady's death, which could foreshadow her meeting a similar fate.

Quote

As his men died around him, Littlefinger slid Ned's dagger from its sheath and shoved it up under his chin. His smile was apologetic. "I did warn you not to trust me, you know." (AGOT Eddard XIV)

Littlefinger pulls Ned's blade from its sheath and puts it to his throat, which could foreshadow Littlefinger pulling the blade he uses to stab Sansa from her cloak after she lets her guard down.

There is a recurring theme of characters getting stabbed in the belly with blades that taken from them:

Quote

“Are you the puppy’s puppy?” He had his sword in his right hand and her arm in his left, but her own hands were free, so she jerked his knife from its sheath and sheathed it again in his belly, twisting. He wasn’t wearing mail or even boiled leather, so it went right in, the same way Needle had when she killed the stableboy at King’s Landing. The squire’s eyes got big and he let go of her arm. (ASOS Arya XIII)

Jaime drove his shoulder into her legs, bringing her down on top of him. They rolled, kicking and punching until finally she was sitting astride him. He managed to jerk her dagger from its sheath, but before he could plunge it into her belly she caught his wrist and slammed his hands back on a rock so hard he thought she'd wrenched an arm from its socket. Her other hand spread across his face. (ASOS Jaime III)

See Jaremy had finished the job of hacking its head off, yet had died all the same when the headless corpse pulled his own dagger from its sheath and buried it in his bowels. (AGOT Jon VIII)

Even the fearsome Ser Luthor Largent could not escape the carnage. His sword torn from his grasp, Largent was pulled from his saddle, stabbed in the belly, and bludgeoned to death with a cobblestone, his helm and head so crushed that it was only by its size that his body was recognized when the corpse wagons came the next day. (The Princess and the Queen)

All these references could be setting up Sansa being stabbed in the belly with a knife that is taken from her.

Quote

She heard a faint rustle of leaves, and stuffed the silver hair net down deep in the pocket of her cloak. "Who's there?" she cried. "Who is it?" The godswood was dim and dark, and the bells were ringing Joff into his grave. (ASOS Sansa V)

I feel I should point out that she stuffs the hair net that was used to kill Joffrey into her cloak, and we never hear from it again. The significance of this escapes me at the moment, but I thought it was worth highlighting.

Sansa will throw her bloodstained cloak into the fire in her hearth.

Quote

Snatching up her knife, Sansa hacked at the sheet, cutting out the stain. If they ask me about the hole, what will I say? Tears ran down her face. She pulled the torn sheet from the bed, and the stained blanket as well. I’ll have to burn them. She balled up the evidence, stuffed it in the fireplace, drenched it in oil from her bedside lamp, and lit it afire. Then she realized that the blood had soaked through the sheet into the featherbed, so she bundled that up as well, but it was big and cumbersome, hard to move. Sansa could get only half of it into the fire. She was on her knees, struggling to shove the mattress into the flames as thick grey smoke eddied around her and filled the room, when the door burst open and she heard her maid gasp. (ACOK Sansa IV)

Sansa burning the bloodstained sheets after the dream in which she is repeatedly stabbed could foreshadow her burning her bloodstained cloak after she is stabbed. 

Quote

Cersei Lannister ignored the question. "The cloak," she commanded, and the women brought it out: a long cloak of white velvet heavy with pearls. A fierce direwolf was embroidered upon it in silver thread. Sansa looked at it with sudden dread. "Your father's colors," said Cersei, as they fastened it about her neck with a slender silver chain.

A maiden's cloak. Sansa's hand went to her throat. She would have torn the thing away if she had dared. (ASOS Sansa III)

This could foreshadow her tearing away her cloak (and subsequently throwing it into the hearth).

Quote

The most terrifying moment of the day came during Ser Gregor's second joust, when his lance rode up and struck a young knight from the Vale under the gorget with such force that it drove through his throat, killing him instantly. The youth fell not ten feet from where Sansa was seated. The point of Ser Gregor's lance had snapped off in his neck, and his life's blood flowed out in slow pulses, each weaker than the one before. His armor was shiny new; a bright streak of fire ran down his outstretched arm, as the steel caught the light. Then the sun went behind a cloud, and it was gone. His cloak was blue, the color of the sky on a clear summer's day, trimmed with a border of crescent moons, but as his blood seeped into it, the cloth darkened and the moons turned red, one by one. (AGOT Sansa II)

This could point to Sansa's cloak becoming stained with blood, which would compel her to throw it into the hearth in anger, regret, whatever. Note that the cloak belongs to a knight from the Vale, where Sansa spends much of the story. (Also note that the cloak is blue. Sansa is dressed in blue at the time of Lady’s death, and this, among other things, indicates that she’d be wearing a blue cloak when she is stabbed. This isn't really important but I thought it was a fun little detail to add.)

After Arya mercy kills Sansa, she will climb up into bed with her sister in her grief and place her arms around her. 

The following quote suggests this’ll happen:

Quote

They went to sleep in the same bed, cradled in each other’s arms like sisters. (AGOT Sansa IV)

As does this:

Quote

"Why, then they must confess all the wicked things they want to do. Not you, of course. I can see how virtuous you are just by looking at those rosy cheeks and big blue eyes of yours." She yawned again. ”I hope your feet are warm. I do hate bedmaids with cold feet.” (AFFC Alayne II)

The ironic thing is that when Arya kills Sansa and climbs up into bed with her sister’s corpse, Sansa would indeed be a bedmaid with cold feet.

Quote

Gretchel had laid a fire in her hearth and plumped her featherbed. Sansa undressed and slipped beneath the blankets. He will not sing tonight, she prayed, not with Lord Nestor and the others in the castle. He would not dare. She closed her eyes.

Sometime during the night she woke, as little Robert climbed up into her bed. I forgot to tell Lothor to lock him in again, she realized. There was nothing to be done for it, so she put her arm around him. "Sweetrobin? You can stay, but try not to squirm around. Just close your eyes and sleep, little one." (AFFC Sansa I)

Sansa undresses, goes to bed, and falls asleep. An allusion is also made to the fire in the hearth. This could foreshadow that Sansa will remove her cloak, throw it into the fire in her hearth, move to her bed, and die. Then Robert climbs up into her bed, which could foreshadow that Arya will climb up into Sansa's bed after she mercy kills her.

 

Edited by TyrionTLannister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I used to think that Sansa would die by falling or throwing herself from a great height, but I've come to believe that if Sansa dies, she will be decapitated. As pointed out by @Springwatch, Sansa's arc's leitmotif is decapitation. Her ongoing terror of Ser Ilyn ties into it. Lady was likely decapitated, since Ned used Ice to kill her and only used Ice for decapitation. 

Aside from the quibbling over the manner of Sansa's death, from a meta perspective, I do think Sansa has to die.

Edited by Newstar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

After Littlefinger stabs Sansa, he will consider slitting her throat, but think better of it and leave her to die a slow death.

Quote

Boros slammed a fist into Sansa’s belly, driving the air out of her. When she doubled over, the knight grabbed her hair and drew his sword, and for one hideous instant she was certain he meant to open her throat. As he laid the flat of the blade across her thighs, she thought her legs might break from the force of the blow. Sansa screamed. Tears welled in her eyes. It will be over soon. She soon lost count of the blows.

...

“Careful with those,” warned the dwarf’s sellsword. “You don’t want to get blood all over those pretty white cloaks.”

“Someone give the girl something to cover herself with,” the Imp said.

Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her skin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine. (ACOK Sansa III)

Boros slams a fist into Sansa's belly, and Sansa worries that he means to slit her throat. This could foreshadow that Littlefinger will consider slitting Sansa's throat after he stabs her in the belly, but will decide not to.

Shortly afterwards, Tyrion makes a reference to cloaks becoming stained with blood, and Sandor unfastens and throws his cloak. This could point to Sansa throwing her cloak away after it becomes stained with blood.

There are a few more instances in which Sansa is threatened with the prospect of having her throat slit:

Quote

He gave her arm a hard wrench, pulling her around and shoving her down onto the bed. “I’ll have that song. Florian and Jonquil, you said.” His dagger was out, poised at her throat. “Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life.”

...

She had forgotten the other verses. When her voice trailed off, she feared he might kill her, but after a moment the Hound took the blade from her throat, never speaking. (ACOK Sansa VII)

Quote

He laid the edge of his longsword against her neck, just under her ear. Sansa could feel the sharpness of the steel.

...

"So long as I have this," he said, lifting the sword from her throat, "there's no man on earth I need fear." (ACOK Sansa IV)

That last quote comes shortly before Sansa has the dream about being stabbed by a mob, interestingly enough.

I’m less sure about the rest of this theory, but I might as well go on.

Littlefinger will fatally stab Sansa behind a barred door.

Quote

“Aye.” The men let them pass, then crossed their spears. Marillion swung the doors shut and barred them with a third spear, longer and thicker than those the guards had borne.

Sansa felt a prickle of unease. “Why did you do that?”

...

“Only Cat.” He gave her a short, sharp shove.

Lysa stumbled backward, her feet slipping on the wet marble. And then she was gone. She never screamed. For the longest time there was no sound but the wind. (ASOS Sansa VII) 

Littlefinger kills Lysa behind a barred door, which could foreshadow that Littlefinger will kill Sansa behind a barred door. Note that she feels uneasy when Marillion bars the door, which could be another hint that she will be killed behind a barred door.

Quote

The whole city was afraid. Sansa could see it from the castle walls. The smallfolk were hiding themselves behind closed shutters and barred doors as if that would keep them safe. (ACOK Sansa IV)

Sansa thinks that barred doors and closed shutters wouldn't keep the small folk safe, which could be a hint that they will fail to keep her safe as well.

If you go over Sansa’s chapters, you’d find that barred doors show up a lot for some reason, although the connection to her death isn’t always obvious, which is why I haven’t provided more quotes.

A scene from Sansa's third AGOT chapter strongly supports this theory. I'll break it up into a few quotes due to its length.

Quote

She shrieked as Arya flung the orange across the table. It caught her in the middle of the forehead with a wet squish and plopped down into her lap.

“You have juice on your face, Your Grace,” Arya said.

It was running down her nose and stinging her eyes. Sansa wiped it away with a napkin. When she saw what the fruit in her lap had done to her beautiful ivory silk dress, she shrieked again. “You’re horrible,” she screamed at her sister. “They should have killed you instead of Lady!”

Septa Mordane came lurching to her feet. “Your lord father will hear of this! Go to your chambers, at once. At once!”

Arya throws an orange at Sansa, and in fiction oranges are used to foreshadow death. This could foreshadow that Arya will kill Sansa. We are also reminded of how Lady died, which could be a hint that Sansa will meet a similar fate. 

Quote

Sansa stalked away with her head up. She was to be a queen, and queens did not cry. At least not where people could see. When she reached her bedchamber, she barred the door and took off her dress. The blood orange had left a blotchy red stain on the silk. “I hate her!” she screamed. She balled up the dress and flung it into the cold hearth, on top of the ashes of last night’s fire. When she saw that the stain had bled through onto her underskirt, she began to sob despite herself. She ripped off the rest of her clothes wildly, threw herself into bed, and cried herself back to sleep.

It was midday when Septa Mordane knocked upon her door. "Sansa. Your lord father will see you now."

Sansa sat up. "Lady," she whispered. For a moment it was as if the direwolf was there in the room, looking at her with those golden eyes, sad and knowing. She had been dreaming, she realized. Lady was with her, and they were running together, and … and … trying to remember was like trying to catch the rain with her fingers. The dream faded, and Lady was dead again.

Sansa bars the door to her bedchamber, which could point to Sansa barring the door to her bedchamber before her fateful encounter with Littlefinger. After she sees that the blood orange has left a red stain on her clothes, she removes them and throws them into the hearth, which could foreshadow Sansa burning her cloak when her blood gets all over them. She then throws herself into bed and falls asleep, which could foreshadow Sansa moving to a bed after she is stabbed and dying. Note that she whispers "Lady". 

Quote

Sansa cried as Septa Mordane marched them down the steps. They were going to take it all away; the tournaments and the court and her prince, everything, they were going to send her back to the bleak grey walls of Winterfell and lock her up forever. Her life was over before it had begun.

“Hodor!” Sansa yelled. “You ought to marry Hodor, you’re just like him, stupid and hairy and ugly!” She wrenched away from her sister’s hand, stormed into her bedchamber, and barred the door behind her. (AGOT Sansa III)

Sansa equates returning to Winterfell with her life ending, which could foreshadow Sansa dying at Winterfell. The chapter then ends with Sansa going to her bedchamber and barring the door behind her, which could foreshadow Sansa barring the door to her bedchamber before she dies. 

The scene in which Sansa returns to her bedchamber during the Battle of the Blackwater also supports this theory, and mirrors the previous scene in some unusual ways.

Quote

Her bedchamber was black as pitch. Sansa barred the door and fumbled through the dark to the window. When she ripped back the drapes, her breath caught in her throat.

...

Sansa backed away from the window, retreating toward the safety of her bed. I’ll go to sleep, she told herself, and when I wake it will be a new day, and the sky will be blue again. The fighting will be done and someone will tell me whether I’m to live or die. “Lady,” she whimpered softly, wondering if she would meet her wolf again when she was dead.

Sansa bars the door to her bedchamber, which could foreshadow her doing likewise before she dies. Sansa backs away from the window and moves to her bed, which could foreshadow her deciding to not throw herself from the window after she is mortally wounded and moving to her bed to die in peace. Strangely enough, she says "Lady" once again. I wonder if this foreshadows her saying “Lady” after she is stabbed in remembrance of her fallen direwolf who died in similar circumstances.

Quote

Then something stirred behind her, and a hand reached out of the dark and grabbed her wrist. Sansa opened her mouth to scream, but another hand clamped down over her face, smothering her. His fingers were rough and callused, and sticky with blood. “Little bird. I knew you’d come.” The voice was a drunken rasp.

Sansa finds the Hound in her room, which could foreshadow her finding Littlefinger in her room after she bars the door. (The Hound is drunk when she finds him, which could have some interesting implications for the state Littlefinger is in when he stabs her.)

Quote

He gave her arm a hard wrench, pulling her around and shoving her down onto the bed. “I’ll have that song. Florian and Jonquil, you said.” His dagger was out, poised at her throat. “Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life.”

...

She had forgotten the other verses. When her voice trailed off, she feared he might kill her, but after a moment the Hound took the blade from her throat, never speaking.

...

Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.

The Hound puts a knife to Sansa's throat, but takes it from her throat and leaves the bedchamber, which could foreshadow Littlefinger doing so after he stabs her.

Quote

When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering.

How long she stayed there she could not have said, but after a time she heard a bell ringing, far off across the city. The sound was a deep-throated bronze booming, coming faster with each knell. Sansa was wondering what it might mean when a second bell joined in, and a third, their voices calling across the hills and hollows, the alleys and towers, to every corner of King's Landing. She threw off the cloak and went to her window. (ACOK Sansa VII)

Sansa curls up on the floor in a bloodstained cloak for a while after the Hound leaves, which could foreshadow her doing likewise after Littlefinger leaves. She then throws off her cloak and goes to her window, which could foreshadow her throwing her cloak into the hearth and going to her window with the intention of committing suicide. Note that the cloak is described as being stained with blood and fire. This could be yet another clue that Sansa will burn her bloodstained cloak.

Okay, so that's it for now.

Edited by TyrionTLannister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Arya throws an orange at Sansa, and in fiction oranges are used to foreshadow death. This could foreshadow that Arya will kill Sansa. We are also reminded of how Lady died, which could be a hint that Sansa will meet a similar fate. 

Sansa bars the door to her bedchamber, which could point to Sansa barring the door to her bedchamber before her fateful encounter with Littlefinger. After she sees that the blood orange has left a red stain on her clothes, she removes them and throws them into the hearth, which could foreshadow Sansa burning her cloak when her blood gets all over them. She then throws herself into bed and falls asleep, which could foreshadow Sansa moving to a bed after she is stabbed and dying. Note that she whispers "Lady". 

(...)

Strangely enough, she says "Lady" once again. I wonder if this foreshadows her saying “Lady” after she is stabbed in remembrance of her fallen direwolf who died in similar circumstances.

 

How did Lady die, though? She wasn't stabbed and left to bleed out. She was condemned to death and was executed, likely by decapitation. Ser Ilyn, whose job is chopping heads, was originally supposed to do the job until Ned insisted on doing it himself. Ned likely decapitated Lady with Ice, since that's how he used Ice to executed the condemned.

If the circumstances of Lady's death are intended to foreshadow Sansa's end, it suggests that she, too, will be condemned to die as punishment for something she didn't do--killing Joffrey, maybe--and that she too will be executed by decapitation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Newstar said:

As pointed out by @Springwatch, Sansa's arc's leitmotif is decapitation.

It is, but it's more likely a reference to Littlefinger. There are a lot of hints that Littlefinger will end up as a head on a spike on the walls of Winterfell. I don't recall all of them but here is one:

Quote

A mad rage seized hold of her. She picked up a broken branch and smashed the torn doll's head down on top of it, then pushed it down atop the shattered gatehouse of her snow castle. The servants looked aghast, but when Littlefinger saw what she'd done he laughed. "If the tales be true, that's not the first giant to end up with his head on Winterfell's walls.

There is also the fact that Littlefinger is thought by many to have been based on Oliver Cromwell to consider. Cromwell's corpse ended up being beheaded and his head was put on a spike, so a similar fate is likely in store for Littlefinger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice completion of foreshadowings. But I still have one big problem with this theory: Littlefingers motivation.

Sansa is LF most valuable card in the game. He can't gain real power without her as his marionette.

So the only way he would consider to lose sansa is if she becomes a threat to him or his plans. The only way sansa could become this threat is by accuse LF for some of his crimes before the lords of the vale/north. Correct me if I'm wrong but killing your accuser usually doesn't speak for your innocence.

Killing sansa would be LF last straw if she would threaten his plans. He would try to bring her back on track, because if he loses her his game has failed (no marionette with a huge name anymore).

So the only time when he would consider to kill sansa is after she became a threat to him. Since she can only become a threat to him by accuse him before others we are back with the point I made above (killing the accuser).

Summarized: the only time when LF would consider to kill sansa as an option would be when it is already to late for him.

And in general I think that if LF dies/fails it will be through a political twist not through some knife fight. He murders through politics and he has to die through politics.

All this talk about a maid (be it sansa or arya) slaying a giant always takes the slaying literally and forgets about the fact that it would be extremely anticlimatic if someone would just kill LF without outmaneuver him politically first.

I always interpreted the GohH-prophecy that the slaying means to politically slay LF. Because that is much more interesting and fits the character more than some simple stabby time. So I just don't see any real knifes (or in extension of this arya) involved in the slaying of the giant.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Newstar said:

How did Lady die, though? She wasn't stabbed and left to bleed out.

No, but she was condemned to death by one of the Starks' enemies, so Ned decided to take matters into his own hand. 

4 minutes ago, Newstar said:

If the circumstances of Lady's death are intended to foreshadow Sansa's end, it suggests that she, too, will be condemned to die as punishment for something she didn't do--killing Joffrey, maybe--and that she too will be executed by decapitation. 

This is certainly possible. I'm not really sure exactly it'll go down. Though there may not be a one-to-one parallel between Sansa and Lady's deaths. The demands of the story may not allow for something like to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

Summarized: the only time when LF would consider to kill sansa as an option would be when it is already to late for him.

Yes, I think he will do it in retaliation for revealing his crimes to the Lords of the Vale and stripping him of any power he once had.

4 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

And in general I think that if LF dies/fails it will be through a political twist not through some knife fight. He murders through politics and he has to die through politics.

George himself has said that LF's blind spot lies not in his political scheming, but in his love for Sansa. That's where he'll trip up and lose everything.

5 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

All this talk about a maid (be it sansa or arya) slaying a giant always takes the slaying literally and forgets about the fact that it would be extremely anticlimatic if someone would just kill LF without outmaneuver him politically first.

Well, making his crimes widely known could be considered as outmaneuvering him politically, especially if Sansa first lulls him into a false sense of security. This "knife fight" will only happen after LF has already lost the game of thrones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Yes, I think he will do it in retaliation for revealing his crimes to the Lords of the Vale and stripping him of any power he once had.

I'm sorry but I just don't see how this could work. Once he lost his game and his crimes are revealed he won't have any time or opportunities for retaliation, because he will be in prison or immediately killed.

As long he doesn't pull a knife and storms to sansa immediately after his trial (or what ever his downfall will be) he just won't have any chance. Why would sansa be alone with him once she turned against him? And if LF is somewhere else: shouldn't a pragmatic man like LF concentrate on escape instead of revenge? If he escapes shouldn't sansa than not be always surrounded by guards until they got him? I just don't see a way how LF could manage to take sansa down with him once he lost his game that wouldn't feel very forced by GRRM.

Apart from the practical aspect: it would be (at least for my taste) very cheap writing to simply kill sansa once her purpose in the story (to bring down LF) is fulfilled. Just like "this was the purpose of her arc, now it's fulfilled, so she can die".

That is not how you write a character arc. In LotR frodo also didn't died once the ring was melted. Because at this point his death would be pointless. I don't think that sansa would have much to do after LF is dead. But to simply kill her because her purpose was fulfilled is (IMO) the definition of taking the easy way out. And GRRM doesn't like it when authors take the easy way out.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

I'm sorry but I just don't see how this could work. Once he lost his game and his crimes are revealed he won't have any time or opportunities for retaliation, because he will be in prison or immediately killed.

Well, I'm thinking he walks away while Sansa is recounting his crimes to the Lords of the Vale.

34 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

Why would sansa be alone with him once she turned against him?

I proposed earlier in the thread that Sansa will find him in her bedchamber after she bars her door. I realize that's not a very satisfying answer but it's the best explanation I can come up with at the moment.

34 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

And if LF is somewhere else: shouldn't a pragmatic man like LF concentrate on escape instead of revenge?

When it comes to Sansa, LF's heart often overcomes his brain. Which is why, to take an example, he kissed her in full view of Lysa.

I'm also pretty sure that he will escape right after he stabs Sansa, and Arya will have to chase him down and kill him.

34 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

If he escapes shouldn't sansa than not be always surrounded by guards until they got him?

That's a good point. Perhaps Sansa will feel they're not necessary.

I think a point George is trying to make here is that Sansa would not have died if Lady had been with her. There was a similar situation with Robb. Grey Wind was locked up when Robb was attacked, and so wasn't able to prevent his death. There may be a connection to how Summer saved Catelyn from the catspaw. Catelyn is attacked in a bedchamber by an intruder with a knife, just like Sansa will be, only Catelyn had a direwolf to protect her. When Ned is told of how Summer saved Bran, he worries that he may have seriously harmed Sansa by killing Lady. And he was right.

34 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

Apart from the practical aspect: it would be (at least for my taste) very cheap writing to simply kill sansa once her purpose in the story (to bring down LF) is fulfilled. Just like "this was the purpose of her arc, now it's fulfilled, so she can die".

That is not how you write a character arc. In LotR frodo also didn't died once the ring was melted. Because at this point his death would be pointless. I don't think that sansa would have much to do after LF is dead. But to simply kill her because her purpose was fulfilled is (IMO) the definition of taking the easy way out. And GRRM doesn't like it when authors take the easy way out.

It's not like she's just been fulfilling a plot objective the whole time. Sansa will have gone through a character arc from someone who betrayed her family to someone who will ultimately die because she refused to betray her family.

Edited by TyrionTLannister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@TyrionTLannister

Really good stuff. I'm not buying all the predictions (isn't it a little greedy to have Sansa stabbed by both LF and Arya?), but I like your ideas and the research is just inspiring.

I still have firm hopes that Sansa survives. If she doesn't, I think it will be through a process of court justice - as fits her story - rather than the vigilante justice that is Arya's speciality.

There is so much to think about in these posts. The snowball fight scene interests me most as foreshadowing - I'm going to sit down and think hard about that one.

Also bellies. The author really likes them, likes them a lot. It's a good place to stab someone of course. Pain in the belly could foreshadow loss of virginity for a girl, or childbirth. And of course the belly is where you put all that delicious and metaphorical food that the books are so generously supplied with. If you're injured in the belly you die. Sansa's weak spot is her stomach. Hum.

I'll be back later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Very interesting.  You put a lot of work and thought into this.  Perhaps this is Sansa's fate. I won't argue because because we don't really know what will happen to the characters.  We believe GM always meant for Sansa to play the part of the lone wolf.  She's not only isolated geographically but emotionally from the other cubs.  She chose to support Joffrey rather than tell the truth and it backfired on her.  It was her wolf that paid the price instead of the guilty wolf.  It should have been Nymeria.  She revealed her father's secret plans to leave KL to Cersei for the sake of staying near Joffrey.  Joffrey turned out to be prince nasty.  Where do we find Sansa now.  At the Eyrie where she slowly poisons a little boy who loves her.  The pattern is there.  I am almost sure that Sansa will fall for Harry and they will conspire to murder Robin Arryn.  They will be found out and together they will be forced out of the Eyrie through the Moondoor.  

I could be mistaken and you may be right, TyrionTLannister.  But I can't see Arya killing Sansa for any reason.  Her reaction is striking back.  Arya and Jon are alike.  Both of them would destroy the world to protect another Stark.  Not too different from Cersei when you think about it.  Neither of them will kill Sansa no matter what crimes she may commit.  Sansa can murder Robin Arryn and those two would still protect her.  Right or wrong will not figure in their decision.  See, that is the pack mentality.  They won't put down another Stark no matter what that person might have done.  The Starks behave like a wolf pack.  I don't like them.  I see Sansa's death coming from another party besides Petyr and Arya.  Myranda Royce may be on to her game.  I see that as the one person who may expose Sansa for what she's doing. 

Edited by Widowmaker 811

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Well, I'm thinking he walks away while Sansa is recounting his crimes to the Lords of the Vale.

And why in seven hells should the lords of the vale (and their guards) allow him to do that?

 

5 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

I proposed earlier in the thread that Sansa will find him in her bedchamber after she bars her door. I realize that's not a very satisfying answer but it's the best explanation I can come up with at the moment.

But if this is after sansa turned on him he should be on the run with the vale army on his heels. And if it is before she turns on him he would have no motivation to kill his most valuable card.

 

8 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

When it comes to Sansa, LF's heart often overcomes his brain. Which is why, to take an example, that he kissed her in full view of Lysa.

Which means that he will most likely fail to kill sansa. Because he would need his brain to kill her once his crimes are revealed. Simple strength and anger are not enough to get past the vale lords (which I don't believe are entirely incompetent) and sneak in sansas chamber.

12 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

I think a point George is trying to make here is that Sansa would not have died if Lady had been with her. There was a similar situation with Robb. Grey Wind was locked up when Robb was attacked, and so wasn't to prevent his death. There may be a connection to how Summer saved Catelyn from the catspaw. Catelyn is attacked in a bedchamber by an intruder with a knife, just like Sansa will be, only Catelyn had a direwolf to protect her. When Ned is told of how Summer saved Bran, he worries that he may have seriously harmed Sansa by killing Lady. And he was right.

If the lords of the vale have at least half a brain they would know that sansa is now in danger (and sansa should also know). It's not like a direwolf is impossible to replace (as a protector) by some good guards.

16 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

It's not like she's just been fulfilling a plot objective the whole time. Sansa goes through a character arc from someone who betrayed her family to someone who will ultimately die because she refused to betray her family.

But if the only twist that is involved in sansas death is the turn in her character, that could have happened multible times in kingslanding. If GRRM intended this as her arc he could have handeled it in book one and the impact would have been the same. I also don't see why the arc of: from "betraying" her family to refusing to betray her family should involve her death. Death is boring, live is full of possible twists.

I could maybe buy this plot if it wouldn't be for:

22 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

I'm also pretty sure that he will escape right after he stabs Sansa, and Arya will have to chase him down and kill him

Because that reduces sansa to the simple trigger to get arya on a revenge trip (which she already is). So a POV character we followed through 6 / 7 books would die as a tool in the arc of another character without any impact by her own or changing the story.

That wouldn't even be a twist. Just bad writing (IMO).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

And why in seven hells should the lords of the vale (and their guards) allow him to do that?

Why would Cersei allow Sansa to walk away to her bedchamber during the Battle of Blackwater? Perhaps they don't see him as a real threat on his own.

34 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

But if the only twist that is involved in sansas death is the turn in her character, that could have happened multible times in kingslanding. If GRRM intended this as her arc he could have handeled it in book one and the impact would have been the same. I also don't see why the arc of: from "betraying" her family to refusing to betray her family should involve her death. Death is boring, live is full of possible twists.

Couldn't you same of Catelyn? If you're going to include a character in a story and devote multiple chapters to said character, you better make sure they affect the plot in a significant way. George couldn't have killed Sansa in the first book, as Sansa hadn't really accomplished anything at that point. She had to grow up and learn to have real influence on the story. If she dies in the way I theorize in ADOS, she'll still have done a lot to justify her inclusion in the story: bringing the Knights of the Vale to Winterfell, killing Joffrey, bringing down Littlefinger, etc. 

41 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

Because that reduces sansa to the simple trigger to get arya on a revenge trip (which she already is).

It wouldn't be a revenge trip. Arya will kill Littlefinger first and believe that they won, and only then find Sansa in a bed of blood. A final "fuck you" to the Starks from Littlefinger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

If she dies in the way I theorize in ADOS, she'll still have done a lot to justify her inclusion in the story: bringing the Knights of the Vale to Winterfell, killing Joffrey, bringing down Littlefinger, etc.

If she does something that justifies her inclusion in the story before she dies, I could maybe buy this plot.

I still don't believe it, because I think that GRRM would take the easy way out with this. But I could buy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Neverborn said:

I still don't believe it, because I think that GRRM would take the easy way out with this.

To be fair, it's not like George shies away from killing characters when they've served their purpose. Just look at Ned, Robb, Quentyn, etc.

The best time in the story for Sansa to die would be just before the Long Night begins, as that will give her enough time to affect the story in a big way but at the same time "get her of the way" before the Others come, as her skills wouldn't enable her to deal with them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TyrionTLannister said:

The best time in the story for Sansa to die would be just before the Long Night begins, as that will give her enough time to affect the story in a big way but at the same time "get her of the way" before the Others come, as her skills wouldn't enable her to deal with them.

Well, I'm actually pretty sure that sansa will survive to the end and her skills will come to play after the long knight (to pick up the peaces). Mostly because her arc had such a minor (and often boring) role through the story I expect that she will have a bigger role in the conclusion of the story.

But since we can't disprove the other we should probably just wait and see. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You really have put together some legitimate great stuff here. Well done :) I have always wondered what Sansa's tummy references could foreshadow and this is really convincing. 

I can see a scenario where Sansa and Arya expose Littlefinger without his knowledge. In the end Sansa wants to tell Littlefinger alone and kill him herself right after. She will fail and Littlefinger stabs her in the heat of the moment with her own knife. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I found some interesting quotes I wanted to share in context of your theory.

From Sansa's conversation with Olenna:

Quote
"Sansa smoothed down her skirts and sat. "I think . . . fools, my lady? You mean . . . the sort in motley?"
"Feathers, in this case. What did you imagine I was speaking of? My son? Or these lovely ladies? No, don't blush, with your hair it makes you look like a pomegranate." - Sansa I, ASOS

Here Sansa gets compared to a pomegranate. In the chapter were Sansa's "tender tummy" quote appears, there's also some interesting pomegranate references between her and Littlefinger.

Quote

"He was studying her over his own goblet, his bright grey-green eyes full of ... was it amusement? Or something else? Sansa was not certain. "Grisel," he called to the old woman, "bring some food up. Nothing too heavy, my lady has a tender tummy. Some fruit might serve, perhaps. Oswell's brought some oranges and pomegranates from the King."

Later:

Grisel reappeared before he could say more, balancing a large platter. She set it down between them. There were apples and pears and pomegranates, some sad-looking grapes, a huge blood orange. The old woman had brought a round of bread as well, and a crock of butter. Petyr cut a pomegranate in two with his dagger, offering half to Sansa. "You should try and eat, my lady."
"Thank you, my lord." Pomegranate seeds were so messy; Sansa chose a pear instead, and took a small delicate bite. It was very ripe. The juice ran down her chin. Lord Petyr loosened a seed with the point of his dagger. "You must miss your father terribly, I know. Lord Eddard was a brave man, honest and loyal ... but quite a hopeless player." He brought the seed to his mouth with the knife. "In King's Landing, there are two sorts of people. The players and the pieces." "And I was a piece?" She dreaded the answer.
 
Later:

"Kettleblack!" Sansa's eyes went wide. "You're a Kettleblack!" "Aye, m'lady, as it please you." "She's beside herself with joy." Lord Petyr dismissed him with a wave, and returned to the pomegranate again as Oswell shuffled down the steps. "Tell me, Alayne - which is more dangerous, the dagger brandished by an enemy, or the hidden one pressed to your back by someone you never even see?" "The hidden dagger." "There's a clever girl." He smiled, his thin lips bright red from the pomegranate seeds."

- Sansa VI, ASOS

I find these quotes interesting in the light of this theory. Not only do Petyr cut the pomegranate (Sansa) and its seeds and eats it in this scene, they also talk about a "hidden dagger" that is "pressed to your back". Also note the "huge blood orange" on the plate. It reminds me of the scene where Arya throws a blood orange at Sansa.

Edit:

Probably a little to far fetched, but I also noticed Bowen Marsh is called "the old pomegranate" a couple of times. Marsh betrays Jon and is the one who stabs him first:

Quote

"Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it."

 

Edited by GhostNymeria

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now