TyrionTLannister

Sansa's Ultimate Fate

69 posts in this topic

24 minutes ago, GhostNymeria said:

I find these quotes interesting in the light of this theory. Not only do Petyr cut the pomegranate (Sansa) and its seeds and eats it in this scene, they also talk about a "hidden dagger" that is "pressed to your back". Also note the "huge blood orange" on the plate. It reminds me of the scene where Arya throws a blood orange at Sansa.

Really good catch! Later in the chapter, a drunken Marillion walks into Sansa's bedchamber and tries to rape her, until Lothor Brune cuts him with a knife:

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“Littlefinger?” He chuckled. “Lady Lysa loves me well, and I am Lord Robert’s favorite. If your father offends me, I will destroy him with a verse.” He put a hand on her breast, and squeezed. “Let’s get you out of these wet clothes. You wouldn’t want them ripped, I know. Come, sweet lady, heed your heart—”

Sansa heard the soft sound of steel on leather. “Singer,” a rough voice said, “best go, if you want to sing again.” The light was dim, but she saw a faint glimmer of a blade.

The singer saw it too. “Find your own wench—” The knife flashed, and he cried out. “You cut me!”

“I’ll do worse, if you don’t go.” 

Marillion even threatens to rip up Sansa's clothes, which could point to Littlefinger ripping up Sansa's clothes when he stabs her. I've noticed that Sansa often interacts with people who are drunk -- the Hound, Marillion, Dontos, Joffrey (in her first chapter), Cersei, etc.

In a scene from AFFC, Sansa can smell wine on LF's breath when he is making arrangements to give her away in marriage, no doubt because he wants her for himself.

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"Three," Petyr allowed. She could smell the wine on his breath, the cloves and nutmeg. "Daughters too, and grandsons." (AFFC Sansa)

All this points very strongly to Littlefinger being drunk when he stabs Sansa.

25 minutes ago, GhostNymeria said:

Probably a little to far fetched, but I also noticed Bowen Marsh is called "the old pomegranate" a couple of times. Marsh betrays Jon and is the one who stabs him first:

In the belly, no less. 

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I have long believed, if one of the remaining Stark children was to die, it would be Sansa. Because she lost her wolf protector. And it was mainly her fault. Because she lied to the king:

Now, child, you will tell me what happened. Tell it all, and tell it true. It is a great crime to lie to a king.

It was said to Arya. But anyway. All the others responsible for Lady's death are now dead or meant to die. Robert (passing the sentence), Ned (executing it), Joffrey and Cersei (accusers).

But I don't know. She has grown so much since. She was on this death path. But I believe she left it. IMO prophecies, predictions can be avoided. And I believe Sansa avoided her own. By improving and becoming smarter than LF.

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The various foreshadowings and predictions of Sansa's death by decapitation and/or stabs to the belly could just as easily occur as she sits the Iron Throne and makes a wrong move. Remember Aerys, covered with Throne-caused scabs near the end of his reign? Remember Joffrey, making an angry gesture, slashing himself on the Throne, and calling for his mommy?

There's a strong cadre of fans who feel sure Sansa will become the first and only Queen on the Iron Throne. And the Throne itself is a pretty potent weapon against anyone attempting to sit it. Queen Sansa could rule for decades before the Throne finally gets her. But Sansa, heir to House Stark, is too valuable to be killed otherwise. Not to mention, she's really easy on the eyes.

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One question here.  Does Sansa even want justice for Ned and her wolf?  In my opinion, Sansa's story is not about revenge.  Hers is a story of tragedy brought on by mistakes.  I don't think Sansa is an evil person like some of her critics believe.  Yes, I am her critic but I also recognize that her problem is just a little bit of selfishness and immaturity.  The second part is being addressed by the passage of time.  Now, with that out of the way, and this is for the Sansa fans you mentioned zandru, I just have not seen anything in Sansa that would lead me to believe that she could make for decent queen.  She would be awful.  Are these fans by any chance allied with the White Walkers?  Because Sansa on the throne is just what the Others need to achieve dominion over all of Westeros.  I see nothing in her POVs that would make me think she could be anything but a disaster in that role.  I would not begrudge it too much if she becomes the Lady of the Vale if she protects Robert Arryn and marries him.  She might become just a tiny bit better than Aunt Lysa but she will need Sweetling to man up and become a capable lord.  

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Posted (edited)

31 minutes ago, zandru said:

There's a strong cadre of fans who feel sure Sansa will become the first and only Queen on the Iron Throne.

Not really. Not even most Sansa fans think she'll be queen regnant, and they're the ones most invested in her "winning" in ASOIAF.

Also, the Iron Throne has already had a queen regnant: Rhaenyra.

 

Quote

Not to mention, she's really easy on the eyes.

And we all know nothing bad has ever happened to beautiful characters in ASOIAF, LOL.

GRRM's outline excluding Sansa from the big five characters guaranteed survival and treating her as a relatively minor character spells out that Sansa will never be the endgame queen, much less the endgame queen regnant. If anyone's going to be the endgame queen regnant, it will be Dany. 

Edited by Newstar

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32 minutes ago, zandru said:

The various foreshadowings and predictions of Sansa's death by decapitation and/or stabs to the belly could just as easily occur as she sits the Iron Throne and makes a wrong move.

No. Unless you got some quotes backing it up. Also, the iron throne is going to stab Sansa in the belly? How exactly?

43 minutes ago, zandru said:

There's a strong cadre of fans who feel sure Sansa will become the first and only Queen on the Iron Throne.

And? Is that suppose to be an argument for queen Sansa?

52 minutes ago, zandru said:

 Queen Sansa could rule for decades before the Throne finally gets her. But Sansa, heir to House Stark, is too valuable to be killed otherwise. Not to mention, she's really easy on the eyes.

Sansa is both going to inherit Winterfell and reign as queen of Westeros for decades? This is pure wishful thinking. Bran, Rickon and Jon (thru Robb's will) are ahead of her in the line of succession for Winterfell. What have her being pretty to do with her chances of ending as queen? Got some other evidence?

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Snatching up her knife, Sansa hacked at the sheet, cutting out the stain. If they ask me about the hole, what will I say? Tears ran down her face. She pulled the torn sheet from the bed, and the stained blanket as well. I’ll have to burn them. She balled up the evidence, stuffed it in the fireplace, drenched it in oil from her bedside lamp, and lit it afire. Then she realized that the blood had soaked through the sheet into the featherbed, so she bundled that up as well, but it was big and cumbersome, hard to move. Sansa could get only half of it into the fire. She was on her knees, struggling to shove the mattress into the flames as thick grey smoke eddied around her and filled the room, when the door burst open and she heard her maid gasp. (ACOK Sansa IV)

The most likely interpretation of this scene is that it foreshadows the aftermath of a murder - she is destroying evidence. There's a lot of blood. She has a knife too.

It could be a metaphor I suppose, for Joffrey's murder  - that's the crime she's wanted for.

Or it could be a future event. This would be puzzling because Sansa can't cover up a murder on her own. So is she helping cover up for someone else? And who would the victim be?

And it looks very much like she gets caught.

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4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Does Sansa even want justice for Ned and her wolf?  In my opinion, Sansa's story is not about revenge.

I haven't yet seen anything that shows Sansa thinking, much less plotting, revenge.

Spoiler

(unlike the show - teevie Sansa really is a different character than book Sansa!)

 

4 hours ago, GhostNymeria said:

No. Unless you got some quotes backing it up. Also, the iron throne is going to stab Sansa in the belly? How exactly?

Quotes. No - I was just going by the quotes and speculations that others have been discussing here. And how? Maybe she trips on the last step up and her pregnancy catches a blade or three? When you've got that many blades, twisted around and NOT designed with safety in mind, a lot of seemingly dumb things can happen.

No, I'm not one of the big Sansa fans who are sure she'll be the ultimate winner of the Game. But I've seen too many posts by those who are. If you're  unaware that there are a lot of Sansa fans out there, then I envy you.  ;-)

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    I believe people are asking the wrong question here. First I believe Sansa will survive. Second, even if she dies, by prophecy she will slay the Giant (Littefinger). It is Littlefinger being killed by her. Unless LF kills Sansa and Arya using her face kills him.

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1 hour ago, HallowedMarcus said:

Second, even if she dies, by prophecy she will slay the Giant (Littefinger). It is Littlefinger being killed by her.

The prophecy refers to Sweetrobin's doll, not Littlefinger. However, George is clearly trying to give us a clue at the same time about the manner of Littlefinger's death. We just shouldn't take it literally. He might be trying to mislead us, to keep us from predicting one of the biggest deaths in the series.

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Where do people get the idea that Sansa has become a skilled player of the game?  Sansa does what Lf tells her to do without understanding the big picture.  She has no idea what his endgame his.  Sansa is at most an accomplice of Lf rather than his partner. 

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4 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Where do people get the idea that Sansa has become a skilled player of the game?  Sansa does what Lf tells her to do without understanding the big picture.  She has no idea what his endgame his.  Sansa is at most an accomplice of Lf rather than his partner. 

I have no idea, I've been looking for textual evidence of it but I've never found anything. 

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Sansa's ultimate fate will be filled by bitterness and disappointment--too many lemoncakes. I am telling you, stay the [email protected]$! away from lemons. 

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Too much preoccupation with LF. People don't think of Arya's arc as a function of the FM. No difference, they're temporary teachers to be blown through and discarded.

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Sansa may survive but she will not be sitting on a throne.  She will live out her life as the humble bastard Allayne Stone married to a minor lordling.  I think that would be more fitting. 

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31 minutes ago, Steelshanks Walton said:

Sansa may survive but she will not be sitting on a throne.  She will live out her life as the humble bastard Allayne Stone married to a minor lordling.  I think that would be more fitting. 

This is what I'm hoping for. I only wish for characters I dislike to rule as King or Queen because it sounds like a lifetime of misery.

AFFC Cersei VIII

When Maggy the Frog opened her eyes, Jeyne Farman gave a frightened squeak and fled the tent, plunging headlong back into the night. Plump stupid timid little Jeyne, pasty-faced and fat and scared of every shadow. She was the wise one, though. Jeyne lived on Fair Isle still. She had married one of her lord brother's bannermen and whelped a dozen children.

 

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On 7/11/2017 at 1:30 PM, Springwatch said:

 

Also bellies. The author really likes them, likes them a lot. It's a good place to stab someone of course. Pain in the belly could foreshadow loss of virginity for a girl, or childbirth. And of course the belly is where you put all that delicious and metaphorical food that the books are so generously supplied with. If you're injured in the belly you die. Sansa's weak spot is her stomach. Hum.

I'll be back later.

Well, according to Bernard from Westworld, the belly is an area of vulnerability, which is why people hunch over and cross their arms when they're feeling defensive :D Supposedly

15 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

This is what I'm hoping for. I only wish for characters I dislike to rule as King or Queen because it sounds like a lifetime of misery.

AFFC Cersei VIII

 

When Maggy the Frog opened her eyes, Jeyne Farman gave a frightened squeak and fled the tent, plunging headlong back into the night. Plump stupid timid little Jeyne, pasty-faced and fat and scared of every shadow. She was the wise one, though. Jeyne lived on Fair Isle still. She had married one of her lord brother's bannermen and whelped a dozen children.

 

 

I don't think she'll end the story as Alayne still, but I do think what Sansa wants most of all is a home and someone who loves her for her. She's always thinking about how no one will ever want her for anything but her claim, and she's been at odds with King's Landing ever since her father was beheaded and she saw how treacherous of a place the Red Keep truly is. 

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Posted (edited)

She is going to end up kiling Robin. The Catelyn side in her is preventing her but eventually the Cersei/Joffrey side will spawn out. 

 

 

RIP SWEETROBIN 

Edited by StraightFromAsshai

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, GhostNymeria said:

No. Unless you got some quotes backing it up. Also, the iron throne is going to stab Sansa in the belly? How exactly?

<snip>

That's got to be difficult, realistically - but it's already in the books as Cersei's nightmare:

Quote

... The barbs and blades of the Iron Throne bit into her flesh as she crouched to hid her shame. Blood ran red down her legs, as steel teeth gnawed at her buttocks. When she tried to stand, her foot slipped through a gap in the twisted metal. The more she struggled the more the throne engulfed her, tearing chunks of flesh from her breasts and belly, slicing at her arms and legs until they were slick and red, glistening.

Feast: Cersei I

Sansa and Cersei have the same style of nightmare - can't imagine why.

Also it reminds me of the beautiful woman tormented by dwarfs in the House of the Undying.

Edited by Springwatch
Added chapter

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3 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Also it reminds me of the beautiful woman tormented by dwarfs in the House of the Undying.

Thanks for the reminder of Cersei's dream! I'd forgotten that passage. Wasn't the vision in the House of the Undying meant to represent Westeros and the War of the 5 Kings?

 

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