Rain on Wednesday

The Biggest Red Herring in the Narrow Sea

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Here is my thesis: 

 

We will never get an actual determination on who is Azor Ahai or The Prince That Was Promised.

Why do I think so? 

It's because the speculation is all GRRM needs for us to be so intrigued. Why answer a question when we have all been puzzling over it for 20 years? I'm also not convinced that the two are mutually exclusive, or that two people combined couldn't be both. The Stallion that Mounts the World is clearly Daenerys herself, she embraced her son in her dream, and was cleansed by his fire....but it's never said. We will never have sentence that so clearly defines who the prophecy might actually be---especially because most of Westeros is unaware, or doesn't care. This is just a really good idea to put into our heads, but that's it. Just endless speculation.

 

Who's with me?

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Stallion that Mounts the World is a different prophesy related to Rhaego, Dany's son. He's never born so the prophesy doesn't come to be. So that tells us that not all prophesies come to be. 

The Azhor Ahai legend exists in many parts of the world. It's possible that it refers to one person, or it could be a group of people who formed resistance against the endless night/winter and brought back the light. The prophesy says Azor Ahai come again is whomever that fields the Lightbringer. So if we want to find the Prince, maybe we should look for the Lightbringer. Could it be a burning sword literally? Or could it be a dragon? The questions are endless. 

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1 hour ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Stallion that Mounts the World is a different prophesy related to Rhaego, Dany's son. He's never born so the prophesy doesn't come to be. So that tells us that not all prophesies come to be. 

The Azhor Ahai legend exists in many parts of the world. It's possible that it refers to one person, or it could be a group of people who formed resistance against the endless night/winter and brought back the light. The prophesy says Azor Ahai come again is whomever that fields the Lightbringer. So if we want to find the Prince, maybe we should look for the Lightbringer. Could it be a burning sword literally? Or could it be a dragon? The questions are endless. 

Or Drogon is the Stallion that Mounts the World, and the prophecies do come true, but with a twist. 

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36 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Or Drogon is the Stallion that Mounts the World, and the prophecies do come true, but with a twist. 

It's pretty explicit in the books that Rhaego is the Stallion. Dany even sees a vision of him (or a vision of what would have been) mounted on a horse going around conquering. He has brown skin and silver hair. Rhaego would have been awesome if he had been born, a true child of prophesy, but as Mirri Maz Dur, the witch, says, he would have caused a lot of death too. The Stallion is also a Dothraki prophesy so it wouldn't concern dragons. 

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36 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

It's pretty explicit in the books that Rhaego is the Stallion. Dany even sees a vision of him (or a vision of what would have been) mounted on a horse going around conquering. He has brown skin and silver hair. Rhaego would have been awesome if he had been born, a true child of prophesy, but as Mirri Maz Dur, the witch, says, he would have caused a lot of death too. The Stallion is also a Dothraki prophesy so it wouldn't concern dragons. 

You should read up a little about Khal Dhako. The Dothraki have some dragonpeople in their lore.

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4 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

It's pretty explicit in the books that Rhaego is the Stallion. Dany even sees a vision of him (or a vision of what would have been) mounted on a horse going around conquering. He has brown skin and silver hair. Rhaego would have been awesome if he had been born, a true child of prophesy, but as Mirri Maz Dur, the witch, says, he would have caused a lot of death too. The Stallion is also a Dothraki prophesy so it wouldn't concern dragons. 

What's explicit in the books is that the crone says that Daenerys’s child will be the Stallion that Mounts the World. Well, Daenerys lost (sacrificed?) Rhaego but hatched three dragonlets, and she is the Mother of Dragons. Ergo, her baby is the Stallion that Mounts the World. Prophecy fulfilled but with a twist. 

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13 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

What's explicit in the books is that the crone says that Daenerys’s child will be the Stallion that Mounts the World. Well, Daenerys lost (sacrificed?) Rhaego but hatched three dragonlets, and she is the Mother of Dragons. Ergo, her baby is the Stallion that Mounts the World. Prophecy fulfilled but with a twist. 

She is the mother of 3 dragons. Why doesn't the prophesy say "stallions" then? 

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29 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

She is the mother of 3 dragons. Why doesn't the prophesy say "stallions" then? 

Well, she only gets to ride one of 'em (until she dies and the special snowflake takes it). 

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40 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Well, she only gets to ride one of 'em (until she dies and the special snowflake takes it). 

that's a serious stretch. I'm pretty sure GRRM used the Stallion prophesy to show that not all prophesies come true. Unexpected events and people's motivations can get in the way. 

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On 30/8/2017 at 8:32 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Or Drogon is the Stallion that Mounts the World, and the prophecies do come true, but with a twist. 

 

On 31/8/2017 at 1:27 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

What's explicit in the books is that the crone says that Daenerys’s child will be the Stallion that Mounts the World. Well, Daenerys lost (sacrificed?) Rhaego but hatched three dragonlets, and she is the Mother of Dragons. Ergo, her baby is the Stallion that Mounts the World. Prophecy fulfilled but with a twist. 

I like these two, especially since Drogon is (assumed to be) male and can actually be ridden by someone!

And because the prophecy of the Stallion who Mounts the World goes like this:

Quote

As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name. The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world.

The bolded part kind of suggests a dragon, doesn't it?

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On 8/30/2017 at 10:48 AM, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Stallion that Mounts the World is a different prophesy related to Rhaego, Dany's son. He's never born so the prophesy doesn't come to be. So that tells us that not all prophesies come to be.

You're making some assumptions, and chief among them is the assumption that Rhaego is dead. There's no good reason to believe that's true.

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2 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

You're making some assumptions, and chief among them is the assumption that Rhaego is dead. There's no good reason to believe that's true.

:o

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12 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

:o

That's either "my god, he's right" or "my god, he's insane". Rhaego is alive is one of those things that seems so obvious to me that I don't really have a solid grasp on why almost nobody else sees it. For plenty of the stuff I spout regularly (House Hoare and Harrenhal related stuff mostly) I can understand the skepticism and I'll admit those are more faith than science, but with Rhaego I just don't understand how I'm the only one who sees it. It's like goddamn Chicken Boo.

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1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said:

That's either "my god, he's right" or "my god, he's insane". Rhaego is alive is one of those things that seems so obvious to me that I don't really have a solid grasp on why almost nobody else sees it. For plenty of the stuff I spout regularly (House Hoare and Harrenhal related stuff mostly) I can understand the skepticism and I'll admit those are more faith than science, but with Rhaego I just don't understand how I'm the only one who sees it. It's like goddamn Chicken Boo.

I don't know what Chicken Boo is. Is that where Rhaego is? 

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16 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't know what Chicken Boo is. Is that where Rhaego is? 

Chicken Boo was a series of cartoon shorts that were part of the Animaniacs show in the 90s. It featured a giant chicken named "Chicken Boo" who would disguise himself (poorly) as a human. In every episode, every human character was fooled by this disguise except a single man who called him out as a giant chicken. This character was always roundly mocked, despite being obviously correct. At the end of the story his costume would fail and everyone would see he was a chicken and the one guy who called him out earlier would say "See! I told you he was a chicken!"

I feel like the one guy pointing out that it's obviously a giant chicken, totally unable to comprehend how everyone else sees it any different.

Edited by Damon_Tor

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10 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

Chicken Boo was a series of cartoon shorts that were part of the Animaniacs show in the 90s. It featured a giant chicken named "Chicken Boo" who would disguise himself (poorly) as a human. In every episode, every human character was fooled by this disguise except a single man who called him out as a giant chicken. This character was always roundly mocked, despite being obviously correct. At the end of the story his costume would fail and everyone would see he was a chicken and the one guy who called him out earlier would say "See! I told you he was a chicken!"

I feel like the one guy pointing out that it's obviously a giant chicken, totally unable to comprehend how everyone else sees it any different.

I feel the same about Arya being the maid that will slay Petyr the savage giant, and Petyr having hired the Faceless Man that paid Arya's debt to the red god to kill Eddard. (I used to feel the same way about arguing that Illyrio was a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre, but others seem to have come to that conclusion too.) So if you want to say that Rhaego is alive, I say shine on. 

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On 9/15/2017 at 7:07 AM, Damon_Tor said:

You're making some assumptions, and chief among them is the assumption that Rhaego is dead. There's no good reason to believe that's true.

That Rhaego is dead (rather, never came to be) is not an assumption, it's clearly what's written in the books. Not all prophesies come true, and that's not a bad thing. If that's the case then all those prophesies about doom of man would come true, regardless of what the book's (un)heroes do. Old Valyria supposedly had a prophesy about the Doom of Man coming from the west (the Others, obviously). Dothraki have that saying about pale grass covering all the world killing everything that is alive. If all prophesies came true, then humans are doomed no matter what. 

Edited by Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

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1 hour ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

That Rhaego is dead (rather, never came to be) is not an assumption, it's clearly what's written in the books.

So is "Jon's mother is Wylla" and "Young Griff is Aegon". Unreliable narrators are unreliable. I'm not sure why people are so willing to trust MMD's version of events with no evidence at all, when the author deliberately prevented reliable characters from witnessing the birth, but totally willing to accept that Ned was lying about Jon's mother to Robert.

I really don't get it.

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2 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

So is "Jon's mother is Wylla" and "Young Griff is Aegon". Unreliable narrators are unreliable. I'm not sure why people are so willing to trust MMD's version of events with no evidence at all, when the author deliberately prevented reliable characters from witnessing the birth, but totally willing to accept that Ned was lying about Jon's mother to Robert.

I really don't get it.

No, Jon's mother is the fishwife from the Three Sisters, and Young Griff is the son of Ashara Dayne. Too many answers are the same as no answer. With Rhaego there is only one answer and an unlikely speculative possibility, which I believe we should acknowledge cannot be ruled out completely with 100 percent confidence. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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23 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I feel the same about Arya being the maid that will slay Petyr the savage giant, and Petyr having hired the Faceless Man that paid Arya's debt to the red god to kill Eddard. (I used to feel the same way about arguing that Illyrio was a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre, but others seem to have come to that conclusion too.) So if you want to say that Rhaego is alive, I say shine on. 

LOL! I'm on board with this too. 

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