Question about Jon. NO SPOILERS PLEASE. ETA : Some user has deliberately posted spoilers after I edited title, do not read this thread if you wish to avoid.

[princess_snow]

Hi,

I have forgotten if Jon knows Bran is still alive in the show ? Please help me out here.

 

 

ETA : Please no spoilers for upcoming season.

 

[Philpenn]

Jon does not know that Bran is alive.  The closest he got was when Bran and company were being held captive by the Night's Watch mutineers.  Jon came to kill the mutineers, and Bran saw Jon.  Bran wanted to alert Jon of his presence, but Jojen stopped it.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

I think he at least knows Theon didn't kill him.
After all Theon told Sansa that he didn't kill the boys and that they escaped. Rickon being killed by Ramsay before the BoTB proves that Theon told the truth.
So Jon knows there's a chance that Bran is still alive.

[AEJON TARGARYEN]

I think so?

"Winterfell is our home. It's ours and Arya's and Bran's and Rickon's. Wherever they are, it belongs to our family."

[Philpenn]

^^  That absolutely makes sense, but we have not been shown Sansa telling Jon what Theon told her correct?  Pretty on par for Sansa, as she only tells important information to enemies.  They should have figured it out as at least a possibility once they saw Rickon.  Based on a few scenes though, it appears that they didn't.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Pretty sure in the show Sam tells Jon about his encounter.

[Cron]

8 hours ago, princess_snow said:

Hi,

I have forgotten if Jon knows Bran is still alive in the show ? Please help me out here.

 

I'm not positive about whether it was specifically said in the show or not, but I strongly assume, at a bare minimum, that Sam must have told Jon that he and Gilly met Bran and the others.  Therefore, I'm assuming Jon must know that Bran was NOT killed by Theon.

Consider also that when Jon and Sansa were discussing Rickon (and when they received Ramsay's letter about Rickon), they did NOT seem surprised that Rickon was still alive AT ALL, and note that the story that Theon killed Bran also included Rickon, of course..

My understanding and belief is that Jon knows Theon did not kill Bran, cuz he DEFINITELY knows Theon did not kill Rickon, and I strongly assume Sam told Jon he saw them alive.

Now, of course, anything could have happened to Bran AFTER Sam saw him, so when you ask if Jon knows Bran is alive, I have to ask "As of when?"

But in any event, I don't think it will matter for long,   Bran and Meera are now within a mile or two of Castle Black.  My very strong assumption is that they are going to go to Castle Black and talk with Edd (who is now in charge of the NW), and word will be sent VERY quickly to Jon at Winterfell that Bran is in fact still alive and now at Castle Black.

[Philpenn]

Didn't Bran tell Sam NOT to tell Jon?

 

Again, while both would make perfect sense to do, they did not show us Sansa or Sam telling Jon what they knew.  Just can't imagine that would be a part of the show, but not something they show us.

[Back in Black-Snow]

Sam told Jon of his encounter with Bran when Jon returned to Castle Black after escaping the Wildlings. So when Jon went back to Craster's and almost encountered Jon for the second time, he already knew Bran was North of the Wall. The first encounter, just as he escaped the wildlings, he didn't know.

Edited to add: Philpenn, I think you are right.

[wolfsbae]

I might be conflating book and show, but didn’t Sam swear to Bran that he wouldn’t say anything to Jon about his being alive? As far as I can remember, there hasn’t been anything explicit to say that Bran is still alive.

Narratively, I think the show wanted to wrap up the Rickon storyline separately and that S7 will tackle Bran and Jon. It isn't very nuanced storytelling, but there it is.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I remember a scene between Jon and Sam where he tells him about Bran. They're talking after both are reunited at Castle Black, after Jon gets shot with arrow by Ygritte and Sam has been back with Gilly - sometime early in season 5.

[princess_snow]

12 hours ago, Philpenn said:

Jon does not know that Bran is alive.  The closest he got was when Bran and company were being held captive by the Night's Watch mutineers.  Jon came to kill the mutineers, and Bran saw Jon.  Bran wanted to alert Jon of his presence, but Jojen stopped it.

This is what I thought, however I was also thinking I was getting the book and show mixed up. I do recall that scene in show though.  

12 hours ago, TRILOGY said:

I think so?

"Winterfell is our home. It's ours and Arya's and Bran's and Rickon's. Wherever they are, it belongs to our family."

Oh when was this line uttered ? 

7 hours ago, Philpenn said:

Didn't Bran tell Sam NOT to tell Jon?

 

Again, while both would make perfect sense to do, they did not show us Sansa or Sam telling Jon what they knew.  Just can't imagine that would be a part of the show, but not something they show us.

Yes I agree.

[aryagonnakill#2]

When I state things as fact, people call me a dick for telling them they are wrong, when I say things like "I am pretty sure" no one listens.  Sigh.  I already told you all we had a direct scene of Sam telling Jon, as others have, but on goes the thread with people saying otherwise...

[princess_snow]

On 2017-7-14 at 0:15 AM, Cron said:

I'm not positive about whether it was specifically said in the show or not, but I strongly assume, at a bare minimum, that Sam must have told Jon that he and Gilly met Bran and the others.  Therefore, I'm assuming Jon must know that Bran was NOT killed by Theon.

Consider also that when Jon and Sansa were discussing Rickon (and when they received Ramsay's letter about Rickon), they did NOT seem surprised that Rickon was still alive AT ALL, and note that the story that Theon killed Bran also included Rickon, of course..

My understanding and belief is that Jon knows Theon did not kill Bran, cuz he DEFINITELY knows Theon did not kill Rickon, and I strongly assume Sam told Jon he saw them alive.

Now, of course, anything could have happened to Bran AFTER Sam saw him, so when you ask if Jon knows Bran is alive, I have to ask "As of when?"

But in any event, I don't think it will matter for long,   Bran and Meera are now within a mile or two of Castle Black.  My very strong assumption is that they are going to go to Castle Black and talk with Edd (who is now in charge of the NW), and word will be sent VERY quickly to Jon at Winterfell that Bran is in fact still alive and now at Castle Black.

Yes, I agree. I just wanted to see the revelation on screen. I think you may be right re your last paragraph.

On 2017-7-14 at 0:44 AM, jorywea said:

 

On 2017-7-14 at 3:49 AM, Mother of Mini Dragons said:

I remember a scene between Jon and Sam where he tells him about Bran. They're talking after both are reunited at Castle Black, after Jon gets shot with arrow by Ygritte and Sam has been back with Gilly - sometime early in season 5.

Ah ok, thanks I really should re watch some of these seasons its been too long.

[princess_snow]

8 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Pretty sure in the show Sam tells Jon about his encounter.

 

1 minute ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

When I state things as fact, people call me a dick for telling them they are wrong, when I say things like "I am pretty sure" no one listens.  Sigh.  I already told you all we had a direct scene of Sam telling Jon, as others have, but on goes the thread with people saying otherwise...

Only just arrived back at the thread, its morning where I am from, somehow missed this comment scrolling through replies. Also got sidetracked by myy anger at the spoiler in the thread.

 

Anyway thanks for your input.  

[Lovely Lyanna]

@princess_snow

 

I am truly sorry that your thread was spoiled. Honestly people have neither manners nor commonsense anymore. To answer your actual original question. Yes, Jon knows Bran went north of the wall. In season 4 episode 4 "Oathkeeper," Samwell told him. Jon responded by asking "how fast could they travel, a cripple boy being pulled on a sledge by a simpleton?"

 

Here is the scene on youtube https://youtu.be/G0zSLUfH9jM

 

IMO the scene works, because Sam is loyal to Jon. He was probably torn, but then reasoned that Jon should know. That is logical. If Jon found out later that Sam knew and did not tell him, he would be angry and may not trust him again. I know people like to scream when the show deviates, but Sam demonstrated some commonsense, something sadly lacking today, as this whole thread proves.

[princess_snow]

4 hours ago, Lovely Lyanna said:

@princess_snow

 

I am truly sorry that your thread was spoiled. Honestly people have neither manners nor commonsense anymore. To answer your actual original question. Yes, Jon knows Bran went north of the wall. In season 4 episode 4 "Oathkeeper," Samwell told him. Jon responded by asking "how fast could they travel, a cripple boy being pulled on a sledge by a simpleton?"

 

Here is the scene on youtube https://youtu.be/G0zSLUfH9jM

 

IMO the scene works, because Sam is loyal to Jon. He was probably torn, but then reasoned that Jon should know. That is logical. If Jon found out later that Sam knew and did not tell him, he would be angry and may not trust him again. I know people like to scream when the show deviates, but Sam demonstrated some commonsense, something sadly lacking today, as this whole thread proves.

Thankyou Lovely Lyana,

 

I actually recall the scene now. I often get the books and show mixed. Long over due for a re read. As  for that poster I just don't get some people.

x 

[lakin1013]

@princess_snow

Just wanted to say that I too am sorry for the poster who was delighted to ignore your request and post spoilers -- twice.  Gotta wonder about some folks....

[Philpenn]

Indeed thanks for the clip.  They didn't show us Sam telling Jon, opting instead to show us a conversation referencing that conversation.  Crazy that I totally forgot that.  Guess I blame reading the books over and over again until the next one comes out.  Was going to blame just not paying as much attention since the show quality declined, but that wasn't until S5 right?  Whenever Dorne/the sand snakes showed up essentially.

[D.Wolf]

On 13/07/2017 at 5:01 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

When I state things as fact, people call me a dick for telling them they are wrong, when I say things like "I am pretty sure" no one listens.  Sigh.  I already told you all we had a direct scene of Sam telling Jon, as others have, but on goes the thread with people saying otherwise...

While it's clear Sam did tell Jon about the meeting with bran because there is a scene in oathkeeper where they speak of it. There is no scene in the show of Sam actually telling Jon, on that note you are mistaken.