Jump to content

Football: Silly season


Mark Antony

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, mormont said:

The Neymar move is about being number one. This move takes him from being one half of Messi's support act to being not only by far the biggest player at his club, and by far the biggest player in his league, but also by far the most expensive player in history, more than doubling the previous world record and making him the only player to appear twice in the top ten transfers of all time.

If you think the impact of all that is blunted somewhat by the fact that the club and league are French, you're not completely wrong, but at the same time you may be overestimating how far that goes. Neymar at PSG will be a bigger star than Neymar at Barca. It might not seem that it ought to be that way, and it might not be the best thing for his footballing legacy, but it's how it will be.

I wonder what worth there is in being a star in the French league. Zlatan did well there but was still slumming it. It will clearly dent Neymars profile a little, I can see him moving on in couple of years, to whoever could possibly afford him 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My whole point is that this move doesn't only make Neymar a star in the French league. It makes him a star (or at least a bigger star) in his own right in world football. At Barca, no matter how well he played and how many competitions he won, he would always be a support act: second - joint second, really - on the bill. The Camp Nou is a bigger theatre, arguably the biggest, but Neymar was never going to be the headline act there, not while Messi is there.

Will he move on? Maybe. Depends if PSG become the club they aspire to be. But even if they don't, he's clearly calculated he'll be in a better negotiating position as a headliner.

(The entertainment business language is not even being used metaphorically here, by the way.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a very peculiar way this has scewed world football prices so much that it may actually be a good thing.  Now even Real, Barca, Chelsea, Man City probably can't afford/may think twice about trying to hoard the 4 or 5 best players in the world in one team, not if its going to cost the best part of a billion quid. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, mormont said:

My whole point is that this move doesn't only make Neymar a star in the French league. It makes him a star (or at least a bigger star) in his own right in world football. At Barca, no matter how well he played and how many competitions he won, he would always be a support act: second - joint second, really - on the bill. The Camp Nou is a bigger theatre, arguably the biggest, but Neymar was never going to be the headline act there, not while Messi is there.

Will he move on? Maybe. Depends if PSG become the club they aspire to be. But even if they don't, he's clearly calculated he'll be in a better negotiating position as a headliner.

(The entertainment business language is not even being used metaphorically here, by the way.)

I get what you're saying but at PSG he will be slightly out of mind. Ligue 1 is in many opinions the fifth biggest league in Europe. At Barca, despite not being the star, he was in the headlines and the forefront of football at one of the two biggest clubs in the world and in the second biggest league in Europe.

How many people pay attention to Ligue 1? I would maybe tune in if it was a big game, and those are few and far between.

When he realises that he's scoring goals for fun in half empty stadiums week in week out he'll maybe soon realise that he has taken a massive step down in his career.

He doesn't seem to have shown much love or loyalty towards Barca. To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked if in a few years if they still hadn't won the Champions League he made his way to Real Madrid, who thought they had him before Barca and as recently as last year were linked with trying to sign him. By then Ronaldo may finally be on the wane and Neymar can come back to one of the two biggest clubs in the world, this time to be the star.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, mormont said:

My whole point is that this move doesn't only make Neymar a star in the French league. It makes him a star (or at least a bigger star) in his own right in world football. At Barca, no matter how well he played and how many competitions he won, he would always be a support act: second - joint second, really - on the bill. The Camp Nou is a bigger theatre, arguably the biggest, but Neymar was never going to be the headline act there, not while Messi is there.

Will he move on? Maybe. Depends if PSG become the club they aspire to be. But even if they don't, he's clearly calculated he'll be in a better negotiating position as a headliner.

(The entertainment business language is not even being used metaphorically here, by the way.)

I think its debatable. I don't think Ibra's profile increased while he was knocking them in in France. Neymar is already a huge star, yes hes overshadowed by Messi and maybe Suarez, but I don't think this will do much to push him into the world limelight. 

There aren't a ton of options for world class players these days though, outside of the big 2 in spain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that being "the main man" was certainly part of the reason. £600,000/week + whatever bonuses is certainly part of it too. I agree that he is going to need to bring CL success to PSG. Scoring 50+ goals in Ligue 1 isn't going to get him a Ballon d'Or. Some rumours are claiming that his contract at PSG will include a release clause as well so there is an 'out' if true.

 

31 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

He doesn't seem to have shown much love or loyalty towards Barca. To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked if in a few years if they still hadn't won the Champions League he made his way to Real Madrid, who thought they had him before Barca and as recently as last year were linked with trying to sign him. By then Ronaldo may finally be on the wane and Neymar can come back to one of the two biggest clubs in the world, this time to be the star.

Did anyone expect him to? Him and his father constantly jerked around Santos for more money and did the same at Barca. Neymar is clearly just a very talented mercenary. Him and his father are going to milk every penny they can from PSG/QSI as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

He's gonna have to get PSG a CL title for this move to be a success in most people's eyes. I'm not sure if I buy the Messi's shadow narrative being the reason he left as much as money being the reason. 

It's definitely about money. There does seem to be less shame about chasing the money in South America, I personally don't see a problem with it. Let's be honest in years to come everyone will be talking about Ronaldo and Messi, Neymar won't ever be changing that 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm just glad these mega transfers aren't all funded by debt.  TV revenues will start dropping soon because the ratings are softening for premium live sports, even if that segment is doing better than all other broadcast TV.  It probably won't happen rapidly unless advertisers really accelerate their shift from TV to mobile. 

If the biggest deals are based on mega-owners financing their own vanity project and/or millions of fans buying polyester shirts for $100, then I won't like the distortion in the game but it shouldn't cause a complete melt-down and force me to watch baseball or worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geez, Isk. What's worse than watching baseball?

As long as Neymar's departure doesn't somehow lead to West Ham losing Lanzini, I'm good with it. 

Also, West Ham have had a good window, I think.  I'm not the biggest Arnautović fan, but I understand our reasoning for the purchase.  Bilic seems to love the challenge of managing big-talent sulkers, so we'll see if he can get consistently useful performances out of Arnautović or not. 

Chicharito is a super buy.  Shirt sales in Mexico have probably already covered his (relatively) modest fee.  I've seen him play live a couple of times (in CONCACAF fixtures) and he's got terrific movement and is a proper finisher.  Truly, EXACTLY what we needed. 

Jury's out on whether Hart is any better than Adrian, but I think Zabaleta fills a huge void in the team. 

And, compared to all the embarrassing chatter of last summer's window, the 2 Davids  have been all action and few words. 

...................Chicharito

Arnautović........................Antonio

....…............Lanzini

...........Obiang........Kouyate

Cresswell..........................Zabaleta

...........Ogbonna......Reid

...……..........Hart

Admit it: you're a little scared. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I get what you're saying but at PSG he will be slightly out of mind.

Yeah, still not really my point, though. You guys keep talking about this in footballing terms. In footballing terms, the French league does not have the quality of the Spanish or English leagues. But that's not what this move is about. Again, Neymar is about to become significantly more famous than he is already, the most expensive player in history. The media attention that draws is not going to disappear. The world's most expensive player is not going to be 'out of mind' because he's playing Rennes instead of Valencia or Everton on a given weekend. Serious football journalists might be a bit sniffy about domestic titles he wins in France, but he's still going to be a megastar. At Barca, he was the supporting act to a megastar. There's only so far that can take you.

When CRonaldo or Messi retires, if all has gone well at PSG, maybe Neymar will move back to La Liga as the headline act for one of those clubs. He'll be in a stronger position if he has shown he can be the main man.

tl;dr - this move is about money, yes, but it's about profile and being the main man too. Being the star at PSG is not a step down in those terms from playing second fiddle at Barca.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, mormont said:

Yeah, still not really my point, though. You guys keep talking about this in footballing terms. In footballing terms, the French league does not have the quality of the Spanish or English leagues. But that's not what this move is about. Again, Neymar is about to become significantly more famous than he is already, the most expensive player in history. The media attention that draws is not going to disappear. The world's most expensive player is not going to be 'out of mind' because he's playing Rennes instead of Valencia or Everton on a given weekend. Serious football journalists might be a bit sniffy about domestic titles he wins in France, but he's still going to be a megastar. At Barca, he was the supporting act to a megastar. There's only so far that can take you.

When CRonaldo or Messi retires, if all has gone well at PSG, maybe Neymar will move back to La Liga as the headline act for one of those clubs. He'll be in a stronger position if he has shown he can be the main man.

tl;dr - this move is about money, yes, but it's about profile and being the main man too. Being the star at PSG is not a step down in those terms from playing second fiddle at Barca.

Obviously Neymar, now the world's most expensive player, being in Ligue 1 is going to attract a lot more fans to the league. But Zlatan was at PSG and was the star; he scored goals for fun and won all domestic titles in front of him yet he never made the Balon D'or podium.

I don't think he necessarily needed to leave Barca to become a megastar. Messi is the main star there because he is the better of the two players, but Neymar has the age advantage on him and should be expecting to be the megastar out of the two in the next two years. Barca's chances of winning the CL are always going to be higher than PSG. All he had to do was win it again at Barca and perhaps score a few more goals than Messi and he'd be crowned the best player in the world. That sounds a lot easier to me than dragging PSG, a team that, if I am right, has never made the semis, to winning the competition. True, it would be more impressive, but I just don't think Neymar gives them enough to challenge Barca and Real Madrid right now. Obviously, I could be way off the mark.

As stated before in this thread, the idea that an easier schedule for PSG may have enticed him coming into a world cup year. Brazil have found great form under new coach Tite. Neymar will be 26 by the time the world cup comes along, probably the last world cup before he starts to come out of his prime. Winning the world cup is the big one for Neymar, as to be a true Brazilian great, you have to be a world cup winner. No matter what he achieves in the game, if he, as the best Brazilian footballer of his generation, doesn't win the world cup, he needn't worry about being in Messi and Cristiano's shadow, for he will never be out of Pele, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho etc's shadow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brazil have a decent chance next year with that team. Neymar, Willian, Countinho, Oscar, all in their prime. Casemiro is an excellent players and they have some fine defenders as well. A very strong team IMO.

As for Neymar, he will be the biggest star in the French League and his addition to the team makes PSG a genuine top level team in Europe. Clearly for either money, Neymar brand strategy or "want to be the main man" reasons he made this move. For football it would have been nicer if he'd stayed and remained in that fantastic Barca threesome. He's now in a 1 team league. He will score more goals but the Zlatan example is valid; it will be looked down upon as "it's only Ligue 1" and to be fair, there is cause to say that. 

What interests me now is what Barca will do in terms of replacement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Calibandar said:

What interests me now is what Barca will do in terms of replacement.

Barca definitely won't find another player of the same quality as Neymar. Ronaldo and Messi are in their own special bracket, but Neymar is the closest of anyone to getting to their level.

In terms of high level players in Europe that can play wide in a front three, I guess there is a small list of Coutinho, Hazard, Griezmann, Dybala, Dembele, M'bappe, Gabriel Jesus, Draxler (perhaps a few more).

All those players have complications in terms of why they would be difficult to sign. I know with the Neymar money, Barca could slap down a £100m bid for someone like Coutinho or Hazard, which is more than they are worth, but the clubs are in no need to sell. On top of that, if these clubs were to sell, they'd be unable to find a quality replacement.

I think Griezmann would be the best option for them, but with Atletico's situation, it doesn't look likely this window.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Atletico is under a transfer ban, it's hard to imagine them selling their best star.

He'd be an excellent replacement. Another choice could be Eden Hazard. Now that is a signing I support, it robs Chelsea of their best player and creative focal point, and he's a very fitting player to replace Neymar with. In fact, like Griezmann, you can wonder if it's any sort of downgrade from Neymar at all ( I would argue it isn't). But again it's hard to see Chelsea give him up, and understandably so.

I think Dembele is both a feasible option and a superb talent. Ideally for Barca they'd get Countinho in addition to Dembele, but obviously Liverpool cannot abide that now that they are finally playing in the champions league again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Obviously Neymar, now the world's most expensive player, being in Ligue 1 is going to attract a lot more fans to the league. But Zlatan was at PSG and was the star; he scored goals for fun and won all domestic titles in front of him yet he never made the Balon D'or podium.

No. But in terms of PSG's strategy, he played his part. I doubt Neymar would be moving to PSG now if Zlatan hadn't preceded him.

And Zlatan, while he has undeniable star power, isn't Neymar, the most expensive player in the world. Zlatan has more charisma but Neymar is younger, at the peak of his powers.

This move isn't as good as being number one at Real or Barca but those slots aren't open right now. Neymar has to wait. The choice was waiting at Barca or waiting at PSG. And as noted, waiting at Barca meant accepting second billing. Second billing at the best show in town is still not top billing. Apart from anything else, it doesn't demonstrate that you can be a headline act. So this move makes sense to me.

I don't think you can really be a 'megastar' if you're always the second or third player people think of when they hear your club's name. But that's maybe about how we define the word. All I know is, no player, whatever they do, is going to usurp Messi's place in the pecking order at Barca until he retires or leaves. Seriously, you could score ninety goals and the fans would still cheer Messi scoring his third of the season.

I agree that the WC preparation likely plays a part too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Atletico is under a transfer ban, it's hard to imagine them selling their best star.

He'd be an excellent replacement. Another choice could be Eden Hazard. Now that is a signing I support, it robs Chelsea of their best player and creative focal point, and he's a very fitting player to replace Neymar with. In fact, like Griezmann, you can wonder if it's any sort of downgrade from Neymar at all ( I would argue it isn't). But again it's hard to see Chelsea give him up, and understandably so.

I think Dembele is both a feasible option and a superb talent. Ideally for Barca they'd get Countinho in addition to Dembele, but obviously Liverpool cannot abide that now that they are finally playing in the champions league again.

As a Chelsea fan, I would be majorly disappointed in the board if they were to let Hazard go. Considering we have nearly sold and loaned out what would add up to an entire squad, we are already extremely low on numbers. He's unfit at the moment, which likely wouldn't put Barca off. But Chelsea have become a team that haggle for every penny when trying to sign players yet they ask for over the odds when they sell, so I doubt even £100m would tempt them to sell him, especially knowing that £100m won't help them find anyone better to replace him. But I do agree that he would suit Barca's style of play. I'm just hoping they stay away! 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So with la liga refusing Neymar's payment and by the terms of Spain's weird buy out system, he now has 200 million euros sitting in his own bank account. Give him a taste of what it will be like after a couple of years in France.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Atletico is under a transfer ban, it's hard to imagine them selling their best star.

I doubt Barca are going to spend €200m on Griezmann. Lots of reports in Spain are now saying that Griezmann's buyout stands at that figure for this window and drops to €100m in January when the transfer ban on Atleti is lifted.

 

Quote

He'd be an excellent replacement. Another choice could be Eden Hazard. Now that is a signing I support, it robs Chelsea of their best player and creative focal point, and he's a very fitting player to replace Neymar with. In fact, like Griezmann, you can wonder if it's any sort of downgrade from Neymar at all ( I would argue it isn't). But again it's hard to see Chelsea give him up, and understandably so.

I think Dembele is both a feasible option and a superb talent. Ideally for Barca they'd get Countinho in addition to Dembele, but obviously Liverpool cannot abide that now that they are finally playing in the champions league again.

La Liga are making things very difficult for Barca. Apparently the president of La Liga is refusing to accept Neymar's payment. The courts could eventually compel him to accept the payment but who knows how long that would take - signing any of those players becomes ever more difficult the closer we get to the end of the transfer window. Until the payment is accepted, Barca do not have the funds to buy either Coutinho or Dembele.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...