Football: Silly season

[Mark Antony]

3 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Liverpool looking really good against Bayern. The pace of Mane and Salah are causing all sorts of problems. Bayern have struggled to create much of anything going forward and Liverpool have been quite comfortable defensively while providing the best attacking moments as well. Can't read too much into a preseason game but it's encouraging signs nonetheless for Liverpool.

Moreno actually looks competent! If we can sign a CB who improves on Lovren then I'm not too worried going into the season. 

Mane and Salah are gonna be such a handful 

[Consigliere]

Bayern have been really disappointing and Liverpool have thoroughly schooled them. This result works out very well for Liverpool since it mean they will play Atletico Madrid next. It will be a good measure to see whether Liverpool are better equipped to deal with sides sitting deep against them. Don't think Mane and Salah will have as much space to run into against Atleti so it will be interesting to see what tactics Klopp has come up with to combat that.

[Mark Antony]

Sturridge scored a sick goal and got hurt in the process  

[Iskaral Pust]

2 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Bayern have been really disappointing and Liverpool have thoroughly schooled them. This result works out very well for Liverpool since it mean they will play Atletico Madrid next. It will be a good measure to see whether Liverpool are better equipped to deal with sides sitting deep against them. Don't think Mane and Salah will have as much space to run into against Atleti so it will be interesting to see what tactics Klopp has come up with to combat that.

This was my impression.  We're pretty dangerous still on the press & counter.  That's great for when we play against City but I doubt any other opponent will be as open against us as were Bayern.

Sturridge is so frustrating.  Lots of talk about how he's at his fittest point ever, ready for the new season, scores a goal that drips talent and creativity, but injures himself in the process.  (Yet again) I hope it's nothing major and he'll be back fit soon.

Is Bayern just earlier in their pre-season?  I remember us destroying Barca last summer for that reason, when Kev Stewart looked better than Messi and Neymar combined and Suarez was their only player worth a damn.

[ljkeane]

1 minute ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Is Bayern just earlier in their pre-season?  I remember us destroying Barca last summer for that reason, when Kev Stewart looked better than Messi and Neymar combined and Suarez was their only player worth a damn.

They've already played Chelsea and Arsenal, and apparently were the better side in both games, so you wouldn't think so.

Anyway, that was quite entertaining. Ok, it's only preseason but giving Bayern a bit of a kicking is certainly better than the other way round. I'm not sure how much it does tell us though, like everyone has said, we tended to look great last year when teams came out and played against us.

In terms of the players the front four looked good obviously but probably the most impressive performance relative to his experience was Alexander-Arnold. You can see why he's apparently rated so highly. Grujic did ok again although I think Bayern had given up by then. Kent looks a good player whenever he's come on this preseason but I still can't see him gatting too many opportunities.

[mormont]

11 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Sturridge scored a sick goal and got hurt in the process  

His career in a nutshell.

[Calibandar]

Might be strange coming from a United fan but I really hope Liverpool doesn't lose Countinho this month.

It would be a truly crushing blow for the team. Even more so that with Salah they seem to have found another player who brings something extra going forward. In pre-season games Coutinho has looked excellent and he clearly is the man around whom everything revolves. I'd love to see him in the EPL for another year.

As for Neymar to PSG, seems like every day we hear the deal is done or to be done that day. Kind of fed up with it.

Either do it or don't. For Barca it is obviously bad news, but it might be alleviated a little bit if they get a genuinely good replacement ( and not Countinho...).

 

[Jordan La Cabra]

Even if Liverpool get £100M for Coutinho, they wouldn't be able to replace him. It would be case of what they did when they sold Suarez and brought in the like of Lambert, Lallana, Markovic and Balotelli instead of spending big money on one player.

The Neymar deal stills baffles me. Any move from Barca or Real Madrid is a downgrade. At PSG he will win league titles and domestic cups, but they have never won the Champions League and Neymar signing doesn't guarantee they will either.

He wants to move out of Messi's shadow, but moving to PSG is he will move out of a lot of people's minds. Other than facing Monaco (who are losing half their squad) and Marseille, their aren't many 'big' games in France. In Spain, he takes centre stage in games against Atletico, Sevilla, even Valencia and the biggest club game of all El Classico.

It's a lucrative deal for him in terms of money, but I fear his global brand is what's pushing him on to want centre stage and the Balon D'or as opposed to his love for the game.

[Consigliere]

11 hours ago, ljkeane said:

In terms of the players the front four looked good obviously but probably the most impressive performance relative to his experience was Alexander-Arnold. You can see why he's apparently rated so highly.

The lad played really well and I can see him pushing Clyne for a starting place this season.

 

Re: Coutinho. I really don't see Liverpool losing him, at least not this season. Slap a £170m price tag on him (if a good 6 months makes Mbappe worth £161m then Coutinho is worth more) and there is no way Barca is paying that. I think that Dembele is a more likely signing. Even though he primarily played on the RW, he is excellent with both feet so should be able to adapt to playing on the left. If Barca do move for Coutinho in the future then I expect him to be a replacement for Iniesta. He played CM (#8) against Bayern and excelled.

RE: Neymar. I think this deal is all but done, however I expect UEFA to launch an investigation into the transfer. It would appear that the report in Mundo Deportivo might be correct: that QSI are employing Neymar as their WC 2022 brand ambassador on a 5 year contract worth €60m/year but paying him the entire salary upfront so he can buy out his contract and move to PSG on a free transfer.

Hard for me to feel any sympathy towards Barca - you reap what you sow. The deal to bring Neymar to Barca was shady as hell in the first place. I love how expertly Neymar Sr has milked Barca as well. Apparently since 2013, Barca have payed more money to Neymar Sr than they have to Messi. Pretty shocking that over 4 years the club has payed more money to an agent than to their greatest ever player.

[Mark Antony]

Still can't wrap my head around this Neymar shit. Gonna have a huge ripple effect. 

I love Coutinho as much as the next Liverpool fan but saying he is as irreplaceable as Suarez is a bit much..can't see him leaving this summer based on everything Klopps said anyway.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Just now, Mark Antony said:

Still can't wrap my head around this Neymar shit. Gonna have a huge ripple effect. 

He and his old man love $$$. Neymar, despite all his talent, is one of those cases where I could see his brand and image outgrowing his talent and ability, somewhat like David Beckham.

Barca have proven in recent years they can be pretty useless in the transfer market. With only a month to go in the window, I really don't know how they are going to replace him.

[Mark Antony]

I think they'll go for Dybala. 

[Calibandar]

2 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Even if Liverpool get £100M for Coutinho, they wouldn't be able to replace him. It would be case of what they did when they sold Suarez and brought in the like of Lambert, Lallana, Markovic and Balotelli instead of spending big money on one player.

The Neymar deal stills baffles me. Any move from Barca or Real Madrid is a downgrade. At PSG he will win league titles and domestic cups, but they have never won the Champions League and Neymar signing doesn't guarantee they will either.

He wants to move out of Messi's shadow, but moving to PSG is he will move out of a lot of people's minds. Other than facing Monaco (who are losing half their squad) and Marseille, their aren't many 'big' games in France. In Spain, he takes centre stage in games against Atletico, Sevilla, even Valencia and the biggest club game of all El Classico.

 

I agree with all of this. Especially the move to France, which I find an uninteresting league to follow. It's not as bad as going to China but you're still out of the spotlight far, far more than you are in Spain or England. I definitely see it as a downgrade, motivated by greed. If it's for the football you'd think he'd want to stay.

And as you say, the French League is a one horse race. Especially with Neymar. His biggest matches will have to come from the CL. All in all a very disappointing move.

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Re: Coutinho. I really don't see Liverpool losing him, at least not this season. Slap a £170m price tag on him (if a good 6 months makes Mbappe worth £161m then Coutinho is worth more) and there is no way Barca is paying that. I think that Dembele is a more likely signing. Even though he primarily played on the RW, he is excellent with both feet so should be able to adapt to playing on the left. If Barca do move for Coutinho in the future then I expect him to be a replacement for Iniesta. He played CM (#8) against Bayern and excelled.

RE: Neymar. I think this deal is all but done, however I expect UEFA to launch an investigation into the transfer. It would appear that the report in Mundo Deportivo might be correct: that QSI are employing Neymar as their WC 2022 brand ambassador on a 5 year contract worth €60m/year but paying him the entire salary upfront so he can buy out his contract and move to PSG on a free transfer.

Hard for me to feel any sympathy towards Barca - you reap what you sow. The deal to bring Neymar to Barca was shady as hell in the first place. I love how expertly Neymar Sr has milked Barca as well. Apparently since 2013, Barca have payed more money to Neymar Sr than they have to Messi. Pretty shocking that over 4 years the club has payed more money to an agent than to their greatest ever player.

Re; Countinho: Question is though if Liverpool really want to slap that sort of a price tag on Coutinho to make sure h stays, or if they're more the club that would part with him for 100 million. Not sure what their stance is. They sold Suarez. Will they do it again, or stand by their squad?

Dembele has been mentioned as a possible replacement and he is an exciting talent. I agree that Coutinho is more of an Iniesta replacement but if they get him they might still have him play from the left wing, as they did with Neymar, he could do that. Griezmann, who I know just signed a new deal, is also apparently a target.

As for Neymar Sr, zero respect for these agents as far as I'm concerned. They are a good part of what ruins the sport.

[Mark Antony]

1 minute ago, Calibandar said:

Griezmann, who I know just signed a new deal, is also apparently a target.

Interesting I figured he was all but United bound next season (should they get top four) but Barca would probably turn his head. Gonna be a long month of the best players in the world being linked with Barca

[Consigliere]

26 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Re; Countinho: Question is though if Liverpool really want to slap that sort of a price tag on Coutinho to make sure h stays, or if they're more the club that would part with him for 100 million. Not sure what their stance is. They sold Suarez. Will they do it again, or stand by their squad?

Based on some of the comments Klopp made, it is going to be extremely difficult for Barca to sign Coutinho. I suspect Barca will have to pay something insane to convince Liverpool to do business this season. They should hold off until next year where there may be a better chance of doing business at a more reasonable price, especially if Liverpool fail to finish in the top 4.

I also firmly believe that Barca should not be grossly overpaying for a LW. If they can get Dembele for 90-100mil then go for it otherwise a Pedro level player on the left will do just fine - someone who offers more in teamwork rather than just individual brilliance. Afterall, Barca were dominating European football with a front three of Henry-Eto'o-Messi and later Pedro-Villa-Messi. The bigger problem is in midfield and the first priority should be to find someone who can do a similar job to Xavi and, at a later stage, get a replacement for Iniesta.

[Consigliere]

55 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Interesting I figured he was all but United bound next season (should they get top four) but Barca would probably turn his head. Gonna be a long month of the best players in the world being linked with Barca

View this with the usual skepticism but reports coming out of Spain say that when Griezmann signed the extension, his buyout clause was set at €200m for this window and drops back down to €100m in January.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

17 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Sturridge scored a sick goal and got hurt in the process  

well,what's new? but that was a peach of a goal!

Loved the back/side flick from Mane.

[Rane]

2 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Hard for me to feel any sympathy towards Barca - you reap what you sow. The deal to bring Neymar to Barca was shady as hell in the first place. I love how expertly Neymar Sr has milked Barca as well. Apparently since 2013, Barca have payed more money to Neymar Sr than they have to Messi. Pretty shocking that over 4 years the club has payed more money to an agent than to their greatest ever player.

It´s not really surprising. Neymar Sr did the same thing with Santos. Neymar played 5 years for us and every single year he asked for a new contract, more money, etc. And in the end he had already signed with Barca in 2011.

Disliked both of them ever since. Though I happy he is doing this, Santos will get ~ 13 million euros out of the deal.

[Jordan La Cabra]

17 minutes ago, Rane said:

 Though I happy he is doing this, Santos will get ~ 13 million euros out of the deal.

Santos probably never thought they would see a percentage of his sell on fee, as the idea of him ever leaving Barca in his prime was ridiculous until this summer - especially to a lesser team. So those 13 million euros will feel like a nice gift!

[mormont]

The Neymar move is about being number one. This move takes him from being one half of Messi's support act to being not only by far the biggest player at his club, and by far the biggest player in his league, but also by far the most expensive player in history, more than doubling the previous world record and making him the only player to appear twice in the top ten transfers of all time.

If you think the impact of all that is blunted somewhat by the fact that the club and league are French, you're not completely wrong, but at the same time you may be overestimating how far that goes. Neymar at PSG will be a bigger star than Neymar at Barca. It might not seem that it ought to be that way, and it might not be the best thing for his footballing legacy, but it's how it will be.