Rorshach Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Melphis_Amekia said: Everton got a decent draw for their Europa League playoff round in Hajduk, but it won't be an easy match at all. As someone from Croatia, I can tell you that all the top 4 Croatian League clubs got financially stable either a couple years ago or more recently than that, which has improved their team quality since they didn't have to sell off their best players each year. Hajduk is a much stronger club than in recent times with a stable and composed team and is already in full competitive swing, while Everton is still only in preseason. I still think Everton *should* be the favourite, but Hajduk still has a chance. After all, Osijek beat PSV 2-0 total, 1-0 in both matches and played toe-to-toe with them, and that's technically the 4th club in our league. Not comfortable about the draw, but at least our defense was good yesterday. We didn't click offensively, but we were solid throughout. Also, we'll probably be closer to match fitness in the playoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, GeorgeIAF said: Meanwhile we have Hapoel Tel Aviv against Maribor or Apoel Nicosia against Prague, the drawing system is a joke, how will those teams improve the UCL ? I cant take a bet that the combined points made by those teams in the groups will ammount to 3 at most. I'll take that bet. 1 hour ago, GeorgeIAF said: I heard that from the next season all teams from France, England, Italy and Germany will qualify automatically to the group stage, i find it a very good idea and those teams really deserve to be playing in the group stage after having fantastic seasons where they overachieved. How do you objectively define 'overachieved'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, GeorgeIAF said: I heard that from the next season all teams from France, England, Italy and Germany will qualify automatically to the group stage, i find it a very good idea and those teams really deserve to be playing in the group stage after having fantastic seasons where they overachieved. It's really an injustice that the reward of having a great season is facing Liverpool or Napoli in the playoff while there are some modest teams facing eachother. Spain, not France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 Lallana out for three months. Could really use one Naby Keita right about now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 48 minutes ago, Mark Antony said: Lallana out for three months. Could really use one Naby Keita right about now It's not ideal but with it looking like the front three's going to be Firmino, Salah and Mane with Coutinho dropping back into midfield it's less of a problem than last year. Especially if the likes of Grujic and Woodburn step up this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 On 3.8.2017 at 1:11 PM, mormont said: I don't think you can really be a 'megastar' if you're always the second or third player people think of when they hear your club's name. But that's maybe about how we define the word. All I know is, no player, whatever they do, is going to usurp Messi's place in the pecking order at Barca until he retires or leaves. Seriously, you could score ninety goals and the fans would still cheer Messi scoring his third of the season. Well, wasn't Messi at the beginning of his career also in the position of being overshadowed by Ronaldinho. Of course Ronaldinho's career took quite a tail spin. Besides, there's also a (slim) chance of Brazil winning the WC next year, with him winning the golden boot. And Neymar is the superstar in the Selecao. That might have been enough to shake up the perception a bit. On 3.8.2017 at 1:00 PM, Calibandar said: He'd be an excellent replacement. Another choice could be Eden Hazard. Now that is a signing I support, it robs Chelsea of their best player and creative focal point, and he's a very fitting player to replace Neymar with. In fact, like Griezmann, you can wonder if it's any sort of downgrade from Neymar at all ( I would argue it isn't). But again it's hard to see Chelsea give him up, and understandably so. Well, this looks a bit like the big fish in the small pond compared to a very big fish in a much bigger pond thing. As I think you are underestimating Neymar. Hazard and Griezmann are great players, but I would still pick Neymar on any given day. On 3.8.2017 at 1:54 PM, The Winged Shadow said: You're joking right? Barca could afford to buy anyone they want. I highly doubt they need Neymar money to buy Coutinho or Dembele. They are one of the richest clubs in the world, with or without Neymar money! Or am I missing something about Barca? A myth. Real and Barca are tradiotionally not really operating on a sound economical base. Yes, they create a lot of revenue, but they also spend like crazy on wages. IIRC in the mid or late nineties local politicians had to bail out Real indirectly. How? Real's old training ground in Madrid. Real owned a nice piece land in Madrid (great location), where their training groud was located. Now some friendly politicians redesigned that piece of land as suited for Real estate development. Suddenly that piece of land was worth quite a bit more. If my memory serves me right here, some Catalan MEPs wanted to have that investigated, because they suspected that was some sort of illegal subsidy for Real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 29 minutes ago, ljkeane said: It's not ideal but with it looking like the front three's going to be Firmino, Salah and Mane with Coutinho dropping back into midfield it's less of a problem than last year. Especially if the likes of Grujic and Woodburn step up this season. I halfway agree and I'd still prioritize a CB but our depth is looking worrying especially with European football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 5 hours ago, GeorgeIAF said: Meanwhile we have Hapoel Tel Aviv against Maribor or Apoel Nicosia against Prague, the drawing system is a joke, how will those teams improve the UCL ? I cant take a bet that the combined points made by those teams in the groups will ammount to 3 at most. I heard that from the next season all teams from France, England, Italy and Germany will qualify automatically to the group stage, i find it a very good idea and those teams really deserve to be playing in the group stage after having fantastic seasons where they overachieved. It's really an injustice that the reward of having a great season is facing Liverpool or Napoli in the playoff while there are some modest teams facing eachother. I broadly support giving the champions of smaller leagues a better shot at reaching the group stages than another team from the big leagues. But for the non-Champions route, CSKA and Sporting CP are only seeds because they qualify every year, rather than because they ever do anything. If they want a privileged route into the main draw then their task is simple - win the domestic league. The best of the rest should be sorted by their ability, which is revealed much better by a 3rd place finish in Ligue 1 or 4th in the Bundesliga once last year than by consistently being 3rd in Liga NOS - a league where there are only 3 decent sides. The same problem exists in the group stages so it won't be totally solved by the changes next season. Man City spent years struggling there due to their poor coefficient. Another example is that for the last two seasons Gladbach have had groups of death as they were 4th seeds, finally got themselves into a position where doing something is possible, but will never be able to capitalise as the peak of that side is now over. In come Hoffenheim as their replacements more or less and face the same problem. They will likely go the same way when Nagelsmann moves on to better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, ljkeane said: It's not ideal but with it looking like the front three's going to be Firmino, Salah and Mane with Coutinho dropping back into midfield it's less of a problem than last year. Especially if the likes of Grujic and Woodburn step up this season. With Coutinho dropping all the way back to Catalonia, though, it's a bit more of a problem. On Neymar, he's obviously really really good, but I've always thought that this idea that he's only behind Messi and Ronaldo and definitely better than anyone else was a fabrication of the need of Brazil's home world cup to have a Brazilian contender for best player in the world, and while closer to true now than it was then, it's still... not actually true (and I do wonder if this current move is to do with him wanting to improve his brand in another world cup season). He's really hard to replace but not irreplaceable, and I reckon either Griezmann (though I still hope we get him when he becomes available) or Hazard would be fine replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Notone said: Well, wasn't Messi at the beginning of his career also in the position of being overshadowed by Ronaldinho. Not really comparable. Messi was 16 when he made his Barcelona debut, 17 when he became a regular in the first team and 20 when Ronaldinho left - and in that last season had already reached the point where he overshadowed Ronaldinho, rather than the other way around. Neymar is 25, in the peak of his career, and will never overshadow Messi at Barca. Not even if Neymar leads Brazil to a World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 30 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said: But for the non-Champions route, CSKA and Sporting CP are only seeds because they qualify every year, rather than because they ever do anything. If they want a privileged route into the main draw then their task is simple - win the domestic league. The best of the rest should be sorted by their ability, which is revealed much better by a 3rd place finish in Ligue 1 or 4th in the Bundesliga once last year than by consistently being 3rd in Liga NOS - a league where there are only 3 decent sides. Well, Gladbach didn't do much either. Yes, their group was tough two years ago, and last year they did what was to be expected of them. Finishing third behind City and Barca, and ahead of Celtic. You can also reverse the argument. If Gladbach wanted an easier life, they should have simply won the Bundesliga. Though I find it a bit fairer to compare Sporting to Leverkusen, since Bayer has been a CL regular for quite a while. And they haven't done much there for well over a decade. Consistently qualifying for the CL is no small feat either. How good Hoffenheim actually are this season remains to be seen anyway. With Süle and Rudy they have lost two key players. So I wouldn't bet any money of them getting a top four finish again this season, as I don't think there will be as many underachievers as last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, polishgenius said: With Coutinho dropping all the way back to Catalonia, though, it's a bit more of a problem. It might happen if there was any prospect of getting a replacement but Liverpool can't give money away at the moment. If we sell Coutinho that just means we'll have £200 odd million in a transfer kitty we can't spend rather than £100 odd million. Can't really see the point of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Notone said: Well, Gladbach didn't do much either. Yes, their group was tough two years ago, and last year they did what was to be expected of them. Finishing third behind City and Barca, and ahead of Celtic. You can also reverse the argument. If Gladbach wanted an easier life, they should have simply won the Bundesliga. Though I find it a bit fairer to compare Sporting to Leverkusen, since Bayer has been a CL regular for quite a while. And they haven't done much there for well over a decade. Consistently qualifying for the CL is no small feat either. The Bundesliga is a significantly stronger league than Liga NOS, as is borne out by the coefficient and the smaller points gap from the Champions League qualifiers to everyone else. Repeatedly reaching the top 4 in Germany is an achievement, usually getting past Braga is not. Leverkusen have reached the knockouts 3 of the last 4 times they competed, whilst Sporting have done it once this millennium and promptly were smashed 12-1 on aggregate. That both can be put in the category of not having pushed on despite frequent appearances is telling of the difference in expectation and quality, given how much further B04 have gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Off topic (and there's maybe a thread for this somewhere) but any of you guys doing fantasy football this season and want to join a league or have a league someone could join? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 42 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said: Off topic (and there's maybe a thread for this somewhere) but any of you guys doing fantasy football this season and want to join a league or have a league someone could join? The fantasy football thread's here, it's in forum games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mme Erzulie Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 On 8/3/2017 at 4:14 PM, Mark Antony said: FA implement two game ban for diving Really interested to see how this plays out. Could have a real impact if used correctly. 16 hours ago, polishgenius said: On Neymar, he's obviously really really good, but I've always thought that this idea that he's only behind Messi and Ronaldo and definitely better than anyone else was a fabrication of the need of Brazil's home world cup to have a Brazilian contender for best player in the world, and while closer to true now than it was then, it's still... not actually true (and I do wonder if this current move is to do with him wanting to improve his brand in another world cup season). He's really hard to replace but not irreplaceable, and I reckon either Griezmann (though I still hope we get him when he becomes available) or Hazard would be fine replacements. Agreed on Neymar seemingly being a bit overrated. Maybe he will prove us wrong at PSG, but I've never really experienced that wow factor watching him that I get when watching Messi, Cronaldo or Suarez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 Not even that second leg vs PSG last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mme Erzulie Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Didn't see it. I'm quite ill-informed on all things not Liverpool, so I could very well be talking out of my arse. Just speaking anecdotally based on however many games I've seen him in (not that many). It will be interesting to see how we look versus Bilbao today. Coutinho and Hendo (to a lesser degree) are our main creators in midfield, so it will be a good test to see if our front three will have the same impact without one or both of those pulling the strings further down the pitch. This is a good chance for Gini or Can to stake their claim for a place in the starting 11 come Aug 12th. Grujic, Woodburn and Ejaria also stand to get some minutes to prove themselves Klopp. None of them have looked quite ready for first team action in pre-season so far, but Klopp & co are probably better judges than me on these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Neymar is one of the few players who has the individual brilliance to turn a game on his own. However, he's never struck me as much of a team player. He rarely ever makes use of his LB on the overlap, preferring to go it alone and seemed quite reluctant to pass the ball to anyone not named Messi or Suarez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Mark Antony said: Not even that second leg vs PSG last year? That was awesome to be fair. He turned that game around near enough on his own. But while he's capable of being that good, he isn't that good all the time, I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.