US Politics: The 'In His Own Words' Edition

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Well shit, it smells like Lisa Murkowski has set a price for her vote for the AHCA. They are calling it the "Polar Payoff".

 https://www.yahoo.com/news/polar-payoff-gop-health-care-bill-give-alaska-sweet-deal-134827226.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

Fuck, they are going to shove this down our fucking throats, aren't they? 

  

[LongRider]

Yeah, we know this, and the possibility that things will get worse is good. 

Quote

Based on a broadly inclusive set of performance metrics, we find that U.S. health care system performance ranks last among 11 high-income countries. The country’s performance shortcomings cross several domains of care including Access, Administrative Efficiency, Equity, and Health Care Outcomes. Only within the domain of Care Process is U.S. performance close to the 11-country average. These results are troubling because the U.S. has the highest per capita health expenditures of any country and devotes a larger percentage of its GDP to health care than any other country.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

[DMC]

So...one month later and the Senate healthcare bill is same as it ever was.  Collins and Paul as nays and everyone else open for business.  Looks like Pence has been deployed to convince Nevada Governor Sandoval, which will in turn net them Heller.  Capito seems to be holding strong but can probably be bought too.  As mentioned above, Murkowski will be bought off - it's really not that hard to do for Alaska with this size of a bill.  That just leaves Portman, and while Ohio is too big to buy off, I don't think he's the type of guy that would be the one holdout - although I'm sure he'll get a fat carrot as well.  I've said this will come down to flipping Heller, and I still think that for the most part, but I think Capito may be just as crucial for the leadership.  Other than that slight change...Talking Heads.

ETA:  BTW, keeping two of the Obamacare taxes on the rich was a smart move by McConnell.  Once adding the Cruz amendment, it's not going to cost you the conservatives you need; it ingratiates yourself to the moderates (and shut Corker up); and gives you more revenue to dole out to all of the above.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

41 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

So...one month later and the Senate healthcare bill is same as it ever was.  Collins and Paul as nays and everyone else open for business.  Looks like Pence has been deployed to convince Nevada Governor Sandoval, which will in turn net them Heller.  Capito seems to be holding strong but can probably be bought too.  As mentioned above, Murkowski will be bought off - it's really not that hard to do for Alaska with this size of a bill.  That just leaves Portman, and while Ohio is too big to buy off, I don't think he's the type of guy that would be the one holdout - although I'm sure he'll get a fat carrot as well.  I've said this will come down to flipping Heller, and I still think that for the most part, but I think Capito may be just as crucial for the leadership.  Other than that slight change...Talking Heads.

ETA:  BTW, keeping two of the Obamacare taxes on the rich was a smart move by McConnell.  Once adding the Cruz amendment, it's not going to cost you the conservatives you need; it ingratiates yourself to the moderates (and shut Corker up); and gives you more revenue to dole out to all of the above.

Bend over, America. Here comes Turtle Dick. Fuck.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

And Tweeting at one in the morning is hard. Who knew?

 

[DMC]

39 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Bend over, America. Here comes Turtle Dick. Fuck.

We'll see.  It's still a tough needle to thread.  And who knows, maybe Junior will publicly lie a few dozens more times between now and the vote.  That's the pace, right?

[denstorebog]

At this point, I'm starting to think it's best the bill passes. Considering some of the shit Trump is pulling to solidify power and unraveling the system that's supposed to check him, from the judiciary to voter suppression, getting him out of power feels like it might be worth a period of Turtle Dick Care. It would give Dems some real ammunition in 2018, and it would start some actual erosion of Trump's steadfast base (Breitbart is screaming bloody murder over the current bill and Trump's involvement in it). Not passing the bill would also make some of his voters angry, but passing it should get some of the disillusioned Dem and independent voters who can't tell the differene between the parties out of the couch as well.

[DMC]

A bad bill is a bad bill.  I've been thinking about the potential positives of a GOP-passed health care bill since the moment after I got over my hangover after Trump won.  And while I'm almost certainly the most politically craven individual around, no, all the "ammunition" and all the "erosion" (which you're right about) is not worth the bill being passed.  

And to clarify, I don't think it will.  Even if it gets through the Senate, members will still have to go home before it gets through conference.  Bills with this level of popularity do not get passed - or at least, salient bills don't.  Trump would be signing his own death certificate.  Unless the next CBO report says they somehow found the Rosetta Stone of healthcare, it's still going to be incredibly unpopular.

[Mudguard]

12 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

When have you seen comments sent to the WH with e-mail addresses and names?

Anyone ever see this before?

Oh...nope. Just looked it up. The official White House policy:

"THE WHITE HOUSE IS COMMITTED TO PROTECTING INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY AND SECURING THE PERSONAL INFORMATION MADE AVAILABLE TO US WHEN YOU VISIT WHITEHOUSE.GOV, USE OUR MOBILE APP, OR VISIT WHITE HOUSE PAGES HOSTED BY OTHER SITES (SUCH AS OUR OFFICIAL PROFILES ON SOCIAL NETWORKING SITES). THIS PRIVACY POLICY DESCRIBES WHAT INFORMATION IS MADE AVAILABLE TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND HOW THAT INFORMATION IS USED AND RETAINED, AND PROVIDES INFORMATION ON:"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/privacy

ETA: Here's more. on sharing info:

"Sharing of this Information

Information you choose to share with the White House (directly and via third party sites) may be treated as public information. We may, for example, publish compilations of messages or comments collected through WhiteHouse.gov or official social media pages and provide them to national leaders, members of the press, or other individuals outside of the Federal Government. And the We the People API allows public access to some We the People signature data. However, we exercise discretion to limit such disclosures to protect your privacy (for example, we generally do not publish last names of commenters).

The White House uses a third-party analytics provider (currently Google Analytics) to analyze data from cookies. The third-party analytics provider does not receive personally identifiable information through these cookies. We have also limited the provider’s ability to see your full IP address (a process known as “IP masking”). Please review Google Analytics’ privacy policy for additional information.

Within the White House, we restrict access to personally identifiable information to employees, contractors, and vendors subject to non-disclosure requirements who require access to this information in order to perform their official duties and exercise controls to limit what data they can view based on the specific needs of their position."

"

 

They say that information that you share with the White House may be treated as public information.  That includes your email address and any other personal information that you choose to share, such as your name.  They say that at their discretion they may limit such disclosures of personal information to protect your privacy, but clearly they declined to exercise this discretion in this case.

As I said, federal agencies routinely ask for comments from the public on proposed regulations, and the personal information is often published, such as names and email addresses.  In this case, the Vote Fraud Commission asked for comments, and then they published the comments with names and email addresses, which is the same thing other agencies do.  Zero chance at winning a lawsuit.

For example, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office regularly asks for comments which are published with identifying information. Lots more if you want to browse through them.

 

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

They say that information that you share with the White House may be treated as public information.  That includes your email address and any other personal information that you choose to share, such as your name.  They say that at their discretion they may limit such disclosures of personal information to protect your privacy, but clearly they declined to exercise this discretion in this case.

As I said, federal agencies routinely ask for comments from the public on proposed regulations, and the personal information is often published, such as names and email addresses.  In this case, the Vote Fraud Commission asked for comments, and then they published the comments with names and email addresses, which is the same thing other agencies do.  Zero chance at winning a lawsuit.

For example, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office regularly asks for comments which are published with identifying information. Lots more if you want to browse through them.

 

Are you illiterate? The policy says that the WH is committed to protecting the privacy of people who send in comments, and even if they collect comments and publish them they won't generally use a last name, let alone publish e-mail adresses and telephone numbers. Even WH employees and contractors won't be allowed to see that information unless they sign a non-disclosure agreement. And this WH publishes hundreds of names, addresses, phone numbers etc? Fuckers is what they are, fuckers plain and simple.

And btw, you should read links before you post them. That link goes into great detail about privacy and not publishing personal information without consent, and includes a link to the statute which is very detailed about privacy.

[LongRider]

 

 

[denstorebog]

5 hours ago, dmc515 said:

 all the "erosion" (which you're right about) is not worth the bill being passed.  .

I guess it depends on how much you believe that the US will  be fighting for its basic free democracy over the next 4 years.

[LongRider]

hmmmm,

Quote

Ohio Gov. John Kasich's (R) office has flatly rejected Vice President Pence's claim that nearly 60,000 disabled Ohioans are on waiting lists for Medicaid’s home and community-based services.

Kasich spokesman Jon Keeling told The Washington Post that such an assertion is "not accurate" and that suggesting Medicaid expansion hurt the developmentally disabled system "is false, as it is just the opposite of what actually happened."

Kasich is among a group of GOP governors to oppose the Senate GOP plan to repeal and replace large parts of the Affordable Care Act.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

6 hours ago, dmc515 said:

And to clarify, I don't think it will.  Even if it gets through the Senate, members will still have to go home before it gets through conference.  Bills with this level of popularity do not get passed - or at least, salient bills don't.  Trump would be signing his own death certificate.  Unless the next CBO report says they somehow found the Rosetta Stone of healthcare, it's still going to be incredibly unpopular.

 So quick question, as you have a much better understanding as to how these things work, what happens next if they get it through the Senate? It goes back to the House for reconciliation, right? And then back to the Senate for their final stamp before it goes to Trumpy's desk?

 Not sure that going home is going to make a bit of difference. These guys just turtle up and lay low until they have to go back to D.C. Last time out when you had Jerry Moran expressing concerns was kind of singular in that it occurred over the 4th of July holiday, where these guys could not hide. They had to participate in their local festivities, so they caught an earful.  

[LongRider]

Yanno, in light of  Jr.'s meeting and of all the Russians coming out of the woodwork, this from back in May is taking on new significance for me:

Quote

WASHINGTON — President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office this month that firing the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, had relieved “great pressure” on him, according to a document summarizing the meeting.

“I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to the document, which was read to The New York Times by an American official. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

Mr. Trump added, “I’m not under investigation.”

The pressure is back on you Prezzie Orange Thingy, how do you like it?

[ding-fries-are-done]

Now this is classic comedy gold.

There are quite a few hilarious lines too.  

Democrats motto: there is always a victim.  

Grap them by the poppy.  

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

23 minutes ago, ding-fries-are-done said:

Now this is classic comedy gold.

There are quite a few hilarious lines too.  

Democrats motto: there is always a victim.  

Grap them by the poppy.  

 

 

Your King has already increased the deficit by 99 billion...

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/14/white-house-predicts-budget-deficit-will-hit-702-billion-this-year.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/In less than 6 months. Kingsmoot anyone?

[drawkcabi]

51 minutes ago, ding-fries-are-done said:

Now this is classic comedy gold.

There are quite a few hilarious lines too.  

Democrats motto: there is always a victim.  

Grap them by the poppy.  

 

 

I liked that  

I don't agree with all of it. There has to be a balance between too many rules making government oppressive and miserable, and not enough rules making things abundantly unfair and miserable. Finding where the balance lies is an ongoing never ending debate/tug-of-war in government. The Libertarian platform is too close to anarchy for me to ever vote for them. But that was really well done.

[ThinkerX]

3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 So quick question, as you have a much better understanding as to how these things work, what happens next if they get it through the Senate? It goes back to the House for reconciliation, right? And then back to the Senate for their final stamp before it goes to Trumpy's desk?

 Not sure that going home is going to make a bit of difference. These guys just turtle up and lay low until they have to go back to D.C. Last time out when you had Jerry Moran expressing concerns was kind of singular in that it occurred over the 4th of July holiday, where these guys could not hide. They had to participate in their local festivities, so they caught an earful.  

1 - The original version of the AHCA just barely squeaked through the house.  The far right members of the house, who have no concept of 'compromise' are going to howl bloody murder at this bill. 

 

2 - Playing turtle isn't going to work.  Groups have been going to great lengths to get in these guys faces.  I said this before, but even with the baseball shooting it has not sunk into this board:  CONGRESSPEOPLE WHO RETURN TO THEIR HOME DISTRICTS RISK PHYSICAL VIOLENCE.   The comments are that intense. The town halls are almost irrelevant. 

[DMC]

4 hours ago, denstorebog said:

I guess it depends on how much you believe that the US will  be fighting for its basic free democracy over the next 4 years.

That is not a worry of mine, no.

3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

So quick question, as you have a much better understanding as to how these things work, what happens next if they get it through the Senate? It goes back to the House for reconciliation, right? And then back to the Senate for their final stamp before it goes to Trumpy's desk?

Practically, all they have to do is agree on passing the same bill.  So, theoretically, the House could pass the Senate's version or vice versa, although the entire idea of conference is you work out a compromise between the two.  All revenue-related bills have to originate from the House, so it will have a H.R. in front of it, but that's just a technicality.

Anyway, in reality I think the House GOP is going to have quite a bit to say if the Senate bill is passed.  Their factions will probably raise a stink about certain aspects of the upper chamber's bill - especially the Cruz amendment - all over again.

3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Not sure that going home is going to make a bit of difference. These guys just turtle up and lay low until they have to go back to D.C. Last time out when you had Jerry Moran expressing concerns was kind of singular in that it occurred over the 4th of July holiday, where these guys could not hide. They had to participate in their local festivities, so they caught an earful.

The 4th recess was going home for a week.  The August recess is usually an entire month - although I suppose this time it will be more like 3 weeks.  Remember, the August recess of 2009 is when momentum for the ACA stalled and the Tea Party rose, with death panels and whatnot.