US Politics: The 'In His Own Words' Edition

[denstorebog]

8 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

How bout Trump's defense on the healthcare failure?

Classic Trump.  Not only is this a lie - if there was a vote, there undoubtedly would have been many more defections - but the premise is shamelessly ridiculous on its face.

Looks like Drudge is venting about the failure, even posting a link to an article detailing how this Congress is historically unproductive.  From the link:

The dam is starting to crack...

Yeah, I posted about this earlier. Drudge has been a flurry lately of links to articles about Republican failure (which isn't so unusual, since Drudge doesn't feel any loyalty towards Congress), but also to bad polls for Trump and WaPo / NYT articles about Don Jr. Gotta wonder what his motivation is, given that he had a 100% no-negativity policy towards Trump during the campaign.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Dunno about  it 'when it was easy'. McConnell successfully gave Republicans a SCOTUS slot while ensuring that there was zero chance of any kind of bipartisan work for the last 6 years, and he got Reid to go nuclear on appointments. That's a pretty impressive road.

He sucks at governing, and he did suck at doing the one thing he really wanted (getting Obama out of office in 2012) but he's been wildly successful in getting political power as an opposition leader. 

I don't disagree. I guess I should have framed my comment in a different way. It seems that most of the pundits were wrong to predict that McConnell's ability to be a strong opposition leader would translate into him being a strong governing leader. 

[DMC]

12 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

Gotta wonder what his motivation is, given that he had a 100% no-negativity policy towards Trump during the campaign.

Never underestimate the capacity for the crazy right - which has been nurtured by fostering a loathing for all government above all else - to turn on their own government.

[The Anti-Targ]

Why don't the Democrats throw a single payer repeal and replace Senate bill on the table and say, "Hey Mr Prez we are more than happy to cooperate, here's our cooperation for you. You said in the campaign you want all Americans to have healthcare, well this delivers on your promise. We're 48, get us 12 Republicans and we can do this thing. Though you will have to bring the House around yourself."

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Why don't the Democrats throw a single payer repeal and replace Senate bill on the table

That'd be playing into the GOP's hands.  After Warren encouraged single payer as "the next step" last month, the NRSC launched a campaign attempting to tie vulnerable Democratic incumbents to her and single payer.

[Swordfish]

20 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

In regards to Trump? If the shoe fits.

Hey, I know, let's partner up with the hostile foreign power who mucked with our election in order to improve our cyber-security.

TOTES CRAY-CRAY.

That sort of misses the mark though does it not?

It was my understanding that the reason to avoid such words was not about whether the recipient of the insult fit the description, but the fact that the word was being used as an insult to begin with, and what that implied about other disadvantaged/less priveleged/people with mental illess/etc.  Mental illness is a disease, after all. 

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

14 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

That sort of misses the mark though does it not?

It was my understanding that the reason to avoid such words was not about whether the recipient of the insult fit the description, but the fact that the word was being used as an insult to begin with, and what that implied about other disadvantaged/less priveleged/people with mental illess/etc.  Mental illness is a disease, after all. 

 There are allowable exceptions to these sorts of things. Like a Jewish comedian is allowed to make jokes that a goyim would be called anti-semitic for making. I think the inverse of that might apply here.

 

[maarsen]

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

How did all of you get to post? Ever time I tried the Board was down!

I was worried about people going through painful withdrawal...  

It was heck. Absolute heck.

[Dr. Pepper]

2 hours ago, dmc515 said:

That'd be playing into the GOP's hands.  After Warren encouraged single payer as "the next step" last month, the NRSC launched a campaign attempting to tie vulnerable Democratic incumbents to her and single payer.

Who cares about playing into anyone's hands?  It also calls the GOP's bluff by saying "we have a plan, we want to work together and you can even stamp your own name on it." 

The Republicans would probably maintain power indefinitely if they introduced single payer.  

[DMC]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Who cares about playing into anyone's hands?

I do.  The GOP base right now is frustrated and demoralized, and I'd like to keep them that way.  Hard to think of a better way to get them united and mobilized than the Democrats pushing single payer.  I'm happy for the time being that Obamacare is enjoying record approval as more people realize how difficult healthcare policy is and what the GOP alternative truly entails.  You need to win elections in order to change things.  Pushing single payer in the minority is not only a stunt with no practical rewards, it's a self-immolating tactical move.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

 

Who cares about playing into anyone's hands?  It also calls the GOP's bluff by saying "we have a plan, we want to work together and you can even stamp your own name on it." 

The Republicans would probably maintain power indefinitely if they introduced single payer.  

 

 

Except they care about those sweet donor dollars more than any election won or lost.

What an absolute clown show. The GOP is a broken machine that has only 3 settings when it comes to healthcare. Full repeal of Obamacare, repeal and replace (which for some reason must always take the form of letting Paul Ryan take a buzzsaw to Medicaid), and Trump threatening to let Obamacare collapse. The broken robots immediately cycled through these modes after the repeal plan collapsed. 

Hopefully they will keep cycling through this loop they are stuck in and never take on taxes. The Republicans sold out to Trump for Healthcare and Taxes. Now they are covered in Trump's muck and so far nothing to show for it.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

49 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Except they care about those sweet donor dollars more than any election won or lost.

And their base would pillory them for it. That's the real irony right there.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

I do.  The GOP base right now is frustrated and demoralized, and I'd like to keep them that way.  Hard to think of a better way to get them united and mobilized than the Democrats pushing single payer.  I'm happy for the time being that Obamacare is enjoying record approval as more people realize how difficult healthcare policy is and what the GOP alternative truly entails.  You need to win elections in order to change things.  Pushing single payer in the minority is not only a stunt with no practical rewards, it's a self-immolating tactical move.

If more Republicans support single payer than oppose it (see the Yougov poll attached as a response to one of Trump's tweets) then perhaps a Democrat single payer proposal wouldn't be as unifying as you think. 

The only thing that unifies Republicans is the idea that Democrats might regain power and specifically control over SCOTUS appointments (it was the stated motivation of my Republican in-laws for unquestioningly voting for Trump). So to the extent that they think "single payer, brought to you by the Democratic Party" would give Democrats a real shot at retaking power Republicans would unify to oppose, though offence being the best form of defence the best response for Republicans against a Democrat single payer proposal would be to propose their own single payer, since a sizeable amount of their base would approve, it might win them Independent and even some centre-right Democratic converts, and the loony right fringe really has nowhere to go. As an issue itself there would not be grass roots unity in rejecting the notion of single payer, and indeed it appears there would be a plurality of support for single payer. Republican single payer is really a win all around for Republicans, and a major handicap for Democrats to get a look in for quite some time.

[The Fallen]

I've been looking for info on whether this site is fake news or legit. It sounds legit to me, but maybe you guys might know something about it. 

It's ir.net. And they posted this on the site: http://ir.net/news/politics/125969/report-two-media-outlets-soon-drop-mega-bombshell-trump/

"According to two sources, what we have seen so far in terms of evidence of a conspiracy in Trump/Russia, pales in comparison to what we are about to see very soon."

 

They quote a Claude Taylor tweet and a statement Dr. Dena Grayson, the wife of Congressman Alan Gayson:

“My sources confirm Claude’s WaPo story,” Grayson tweeted. “Plus *another* major MSM outlet (not CNN) has Trump on TAPE -> ”damning”‼️ Per source, MSM outlet is “coordinating w/Mueller”. I don’t know *exact* timing, but VERY likely less than 2 weeks. Again, my sources have NOT commented on timing. In general, they’d hold for a few weeks at most…”

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, The Fallen said:

I've been looking for info on whether this site is fake news or legit. It sounds legit to me, but maybe you guys might know something about it. 

It's ir.net. And they posted this on the site: http://ir.net/news/politics/125969/report-two-media-outlets-soon-drop-mega-bombshell-trump/

"According to two sources, what we have seen so far in terms of evidence of a conspiracy in Trump/Russia, pales in comparison to what we are about to see very soon."

 

They quote a Claude Taylor tweet and a statement Dr. Dena Grayson, the wife of Congressman Alan Gayson:

“My sources confirm Claude’s WaPo story,” Grayson tweeted. “Plus *another* major MSM outlet (not CNN) has Trump on TAPE -> ”damning”‼️ Per source, MSM outlet is “coordinating w/Mueller”. I don’t know *exact* timing, but VERY likely less than 2 weeks. Again, my sources have NOT commented on timing. In general, they’d hold for a few weeks at most…”

I don't know anything about that site, but I think it kind of stands to reason. Manafort's feet are being held to the fire right now. He was at the meeting, and there has been more than a few mentions that he was holding out a cellphone for much of the meeting, as if he had someone on some sort of conference call. If this was Trump, and he spoke on this call, he very well could be screwed.

 Only time will tell, I suppose.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

So to the extent that they think "single payer, brought to you by the Democratic Party" would give Democrats a real shot at retaking power Republicans would unify to oppose

I disagree with this premise.  I've seen some polls showing a plurality of respondents in favor of single-payer, yes.  But once the Dems are for it, the amount who oppose it instantly jumps 10 points, and that's before the GOP and the insurance industry begins their smear campaign.  We've been through this before, twice, in the past 25 years.  Moreover, while single-payer may be fairly popular overall, it is not in red and purple states and districts.  That's precisely why the NRSC tried to capitalize on Warren pushing it in the original link I provided.

[denstorebog]

1 hour ago, The Fallen said:

I've been looking for info on whether this site is fake news or legit. It sounds legit to me, but maybe you guys might know something about it. 

They use Louise Mensch as the sole spurce for several articles, which means they're part of a network that makes money off of people's desire for scandals and revenge on Trump. No idea about the cred of the two sources in this case.

[Inigima]

Claude is another person in Louise Mensch's orbit, they tend to cite each other as sources. They have not generally offered any provable evidence for their claims and I recommend defaulting to skepticism.

[Dr. Pepper]

11 hours ago, dmc515 said:

I do.  The GOP base right now is frustrated and demoralized, and I'd like to keep them that way.  Hard to think of a better way to get them united and mobilized than the Democrats pushing single payer.  I'm happy for the time being that Obamacare is enjoying record approval as more people realize how difficult healthcare policy is and what the GOP alternative truly entails.  You need to win elections in order to change things.  Pushing single payer in the minority is not only a stunt with no practical rewards, it's a self-immolating tactical move.

You sound like Mitch McConnell.  "Dems did this and strategy that and winners/losers wah wah".  I don't give a fuck.  American democracy is pretty much done and the Democratic party is certainly done and people are still advocating for neither party to not govern appropriately.

11 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

 

Except they care about those sweet donor dollars more than any election won or lost.

What an absolute clown show. The GOP is a broken machine that has only 3 settings when it comes to healthcare. Full repeal of Obamacare, repeal and replace (which for some reason must always take the form of letting Paul Ryan take a buzzsaw to Medicaid), and Trump threatening to let Obamacare collapse. The broken robots immediately cycled through these modes after the repeal plan collapsed. 

Hopefully they will keep cycling through this loop they are stuck in and never take on taxes. The Republicans sold out to Trump for Healthcare and Taxes. Now they are covered in Trump's muck and so far nothing to show for it.

Yeah, I'm not sure why I ought to keep supporting people who care only for donor dollars and not at all about governing.  

10 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

And their base would pillory them for it. That's the real irony right there.

But the GOP base wouldn't.  Conservatives stand for nothing, and besides one campaign promise of Trump's would be that everyone would have health insurance.  All the Republican party would have to do is just implement it and their idiot followers would think it's good even if five minutes ago they thought single payer was bad.  And then we'd have universal healthcare.  That's a win in my book, I don't give a fuck what party does it.  That's basically the Republican issue with the ACA, it's that Obama signed it into law and not one of their own (white) men.  

[mcbigski]

2 hours ago, Inigima said:

Claude is another person in Louise Mensch's orbit, they tend to cite each other as sources. They have not generally offered any provable evidence for their claims and I recommend defaulting to skepticism.

Are these the folks that got Donald Jr executed for treason?

Glad to see some skepticism from you.  Seems like a lot of people are just willing to believe whatever they want to believe.