Noble Lothar Frey

Jon will get wightified, a theory by Lothar Frey

120 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Sure, that is possible. But seeing as how you have presented zero evidence from the text to back it up, I will give your "theory" a 0.003% chance of being correct. :P 

Oh I don't know about that.  Some of the op's thoughts are going to happen.  The nk can resurrect and he's coming.  Can you see why he is the leading candidate to awaken Jon?  Some people are hoping it's Mellisandre but we have never seen her do this.  We have seen the ww do this.

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10 minutes ago, Ian Dunross said:

Oh I don't know about that.  Some of the op's thoughts are going to happen.  The nk can resurrect and he's coming.  Can you see why he is the leading candidate to awaken Jon?  Some people are hoping it's Mellisandre but we have never seen her do this.  We have seen the ww do this.

Have we? Are you sure? 

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Have we? Are you sure? 

:ph34r:'d by kissdbyfire.

Is there anyone who is endorsing this theory that can add any text at all to support your ideas? Anyone? Anyone? 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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2 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

:ph34r:'d by kissdbyfire.

Is there anyone who endorsing this theory that can add any text at all to support your ideas? Anyone? Anyone? 

Text, pfff. Whoever heard of supporting mad claims w/ text to back them up. :P

 

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2 hours ago, Ian Dunross said:

Oh I don't know about that.  Some of the op's thoughts are going to happen.  The nk can resurrect and he's coming.  Can you see why he is the leading candidate to awaken Jon?  Some people are hoping it's Mellisandre but we have never seen her do this.  We have seen the ww do this.

What in the world are you talking about? Sure, the WWs probably (still not confirmed) have the power to raise the dead as mindless wights. And I do mean mindless, since they can get decapitated and keep fighting (like the bear that killed Thoren Smallwood at the Fist). But they are certainly not the ones responsible for Cold Hands or Cat or Beric, and those people are foreshadowing the mechanism for Jon coming back. I give it a 90% chance Mel will bring him back, a 9.9% chance it will be Bran or Bloodraven, and 0.1% chance something I haven't thought of.

You really want me to break down how speculative this OP is? OK... I don't mean to be rude @Lame Lothar Frey, but this theory of yours is really just a shot in the dark with nothing in the text to back it up.

Jon will get resurrected by the White Walkers.  He will become of one the ice leaders because of his skin changing ability.

How will either of these things happen specifically? The WWs have never brought a person back to life as far as we know. Who are these "ice leaders"? Why would they resurrect Jon and make him a leader because of his skinchanging abilities? Don't they already have those?

The bodies of the walkers are slowly deteriorating and Craster's baby donations allowed them to replace their corpse.  Keep them supplied with babies and they will continue to live.  They can mind transfer from their decaying bodies to the newborn's body as they need to.  It would suck to have the mind of an adult in the form factor of a baby but hell it's better than permanent death. 

I'll grant that this is possible, but we have no evidence that this is what the WWs are doing. This is just a guess.

The wildlings value their freedom and they will side with the Others.  A deal will be struck in which the Others will push the non-wildlings out of the north in return for the wildlings swearing to sacrifice their babies to the Others.  Some quota will be agreed on.

On top of just being a guess, this is highly unlikely. The wildlings, people who call themselves the "free folk" and have refused to bow before the kings of Westeros for thousands of years - people who in fact insult others as "kneelers" - are going to agree to fight all the northerners and then permanently sacrifice an agreed upon quota of babies to the Others?????!!!! No, I don't think so.

Jon will lead the wights against the people of Westeros but will be stopped by Dany and Drogon at the Trident.  A new boundary will be established at Moat Cailin between the kingdom of ice and the kingdom of fire. 

Why would Jon do this? Why is he fighting against the people of Westeros all of a sudden? And again, this idea of Dany stopping ice-Jon and a boundary being established at MC is just completely a random guess with zero evidence.

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9 hours ago, Ian Dunross said:

Oh I don't know about that.  Some of the op's thoughts are going to happen.  The nk can resurrect and he's coming.  Can you see why he is the leading candidate to awaken Jon?  Some people are hoping it's Mellisandre but we have never seen her do this.  We have seen the ww do this.

Wait, who's coming? Pretty sure he's deader than fried chicken. And the only characters we've seen bring someone back to life are the Red Priests (life, not undeath a la the wights). And wouldn't you know it, Melisandre is a Red Priest and just so happens to be at the Wall. So why the hell would the Great Other (that's who I'm assuming you meant) be the "leading candidate" to wake Jon? An entity that we haven't seen, nor are we even sure that he/it/whatever exists.

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On 7/18/2017 at 9:07 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Text, pfff. Whoever heard of supporting mad claims w/ text to back them up. :P

 

  1. Weymar Royce.  From the first few pages of the novel we were shown the white walkers killing and resurrecting the dead. 
  2. The wights that attacked Jeor Mormont. 

There is support in the text for the white walker's ability to raise the dead.  Evidence, actually.  And it is strong.

There is not a shred of evidence in the  text to support that Mellissandre can resurrect anybody or anything. 

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8 hours ago, E.S. Dinah said:
  1. Weymar Royce.  From the first few pages of the novel we were shown the white walkers killing and resurrecting the dead. 
  2. The wights that attacked Jeor Mormont. 

There is support in the text for the white walker's ability to raise the dead.  Evidence, actually.  And it is strong.

There is not a shred of evidence in the  text to support that Mellissandre can resurrect anybody or anything

Waymar Royce died and was raised as a zombie, an undead creature. That is not the same as being resurrected. The WWs were there. Maybe it was them, maybe it was the cold, maybe it was something else. Othor and Jafer Flowers were found dead north of the wall, and raised as wights once at CB. No WWs anywhere in sight. Again, raising from the dead as a wight is absolutely not the same thing as being resurrected. 

As to the bolded, where did I say Mel resurrected anyone or that she'll be involved now in Jon's case? That's right, I didn't. 

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

@Dragonsbone 

WOAH! super spoiler from the show, please edit your post and read the rules regarding spoilers, that is not cool dude 

It is an interview with George...nothing from HBO :huh:

EDIT: I deleated the question :D. Now no Spoilers from the show. I apologize. 

Edited by Dragonsbone

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Waymar Royce died and was raised as a zombie, an undead creature. That is not the same as being resurrected. The WWs were there. Maybe it was them, maybe it was the cold, maybe it was something else. Othor and Jafer Flowers were found dead north of the wall, and raised as wights once at CB. No WWs anywhere in sight. Again, raising from the dead as a wight is absolutely not the same thing as being resurrected. 

As to the bolded, where did I say Mel resurrected anyone or that she'll be involved now in Jon's case? That's right, I didn't. 

This is correct.

But since I did suggest Mel will bring Jon back, I will proceed to defend that aspect. Not a shred of evidence? I wholeheartedly disagree. The evidence is rather straightforward. We have seen a red priest, using a standard red priest ritual, resurrect Beric. Jon has been probably fatally wounded, and there is a powerful red priest nearby who has lately been having visions of Jon being AAR, so she has a direct motive to attempt resurrection if he should die. Additionally, Jon conspicuously sent everyone with king's blood away from the Wall except Shireen, so Mel may decide, wrongly thinking that Stannis is dead, to burn Shireen to resurrect Jon. So there you go. The conclusion is speculation, but there is certainly evidence for that specific event happening.

Edited by 40 Thousand Skeletons

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On 7/15/2017 at 7:32 AM, Lame Lothar Frey said:

I, Lord Lothar Frey, renowned architect of the Red Wedding and one of the most prominent thinkers in Westeros present before you a theory. 
I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can let go at an incredibly low price!!!!!

Interesting, but I highly doubt it 

He will be resurrected by mel, meets his aunt but she dies in the final battle and he  lives a sad life for hte restof his days

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4 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

This is correct.

But since I did suggest Mel will bring Jon back, I will proceed to defend that aspect. Not a shred of evidence? I wholeheartedly disagree. The evidence is rather straightforward. We have seen a red priest, using a standard red priest ritual, resurrect Beric. Jon has been probably fatally wounded, and there is a powerful red priest nearby who has lately been having visions of Jon being AAR, so she has a direct motive to attempt resurrection if he should die. Additionally, Jon conspicuously sent everyone with king's blood away from the Wall except Shireen, so Mel may decide, wrongly thinking that Stannis is dead, to burn Shireen to resurrect Jon. So there you go. The conclusion is speculation, but there is certainly evidence for that specific event happening.

Oh dear me. Firstly, thanks for letting me know what I said about Royce and Othor and Jafer was correct, I really needed that. /s

Secondly, did you read what I said? In case you didn't, let me repeat it here, and it's a whole string of posts that led to the one you quoted.

@Ian Dunross said upthread something along the lines of, "we have seen the Night's King resurrect people". I replied, "have we? Where?". @The Fattest Leech asked for any type of evidence and I made a joke about people thinking it's fine to just come up with crazy stuff w/o any textual evidence to back it up. Then @E.S. Dinah replied to my post saying there's textual support for the WWs resurrecting the dead and cited Royce and Othor and Jafer Flowers, and ended the post saying there is no support whatsoever in the text for the possibility of Mel resurrecting Jon or anyone else. To which I also replied. And I started my reply by just pointing out that the arguments s/he made regarding the WWs and Waymar and the other two were either clearly wrong or not not really proven beyond a doubt, and ended my post by saying I had never claimed that Mel would resurrect Jon. So, there, the whole thing. 

I like you, 40K, but I don't like to be misquoted! :P

 

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57 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Oh dear me. Firstly, thanks for letting me know what I said about Royce and Othor and Jafer was correct, I really needed that. /s

Secondly, did you read what I said? In case you didn't, let me repeat it here, and it's a whole string of posts that led to the one you quoted.

@Ian Dunross said upthread something along the lines of, "we have seen the Night's King resurrect people". I replied, "have we? Where?". @The Fattest Leech asked for any type of evidence and I made a joke about people thinking it's fine to just come up with crazy stuff w/o any textual evidence to back it up. Then @E.S. Dinah replied to my post saying there's textual support for the WWs resurrecting the dead and cited Royce and Othor and Jafer Flowers, and ended the post saying there is no support whatsoever in the text for the possibility of Mel resurrecting Jon or anyone else. To which I also replied. And I started my reply by just pointing out that the arguments s/he made regarding the WWs and Waymar and the other two were either clearly wrong or not not really proven beyond a doubt, and ended my post by saying I had never claimed that Mel would resurrect Jon. So, there, the whole thing. 

I like you, 40K, but I don't like to be misquoted! :P

 

What? I sincerely don't understand... :blink: I think you misunderstood me, allow me to clear things up! :D 

I wasn't trying to tell you that you were correct. I was succinctly saying that I agree with you and that the things you pointed out were true.

I did read the whole conversation. I didn't mean to make it seem like I was educating you about the evidence for Mel resurrecting Jon. I was addressing @E.S. Dinah and @Ian Dunross with that paragraph, but I was on my phone with a bad internet connection, and the "@" feature was not working.

I like you too kissdbyfire, I would never misquote you on purpose! :D:P 

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27 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

What? I sincerely don't understand... :blink: I think you misunderstood me, allow me to clear things up! :D 

I wasn't trying to tell you that you were correct. I was succinctly saying that I agree with you and that the things you pointed out were true.

I did read the whole conversation. I didn't mean to make it seem like I was educating you about the evidence for Mel resurrecting Jon. I was addressing @E.S. Dinah and @Ian Dunross with that paragraph, but I was on my phone with a bad internet connection, and the "@" feature was not working.

I like you too kissdbyfire, I would never misquote you on purpose! :D:P 

Awww, were good! :wub:

 

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On 7/18/2017 at 8:48 PM, Ian Dunross said:

Oh I don't know about that.  Some of the op's thoughts are going to happen.  The nk can resurrect and he's coming.  Can you see why he is the leading candidate to awaken Jon?  Some people are hoping it's Mellisandre but we have never seen her do this.  We have seen the ww do this.

By virtue of having already reanimated the dead,  yes.  Whereas Mel hasn't done anything even similar.  So yeah this is the most likely scernario if Jon is to come back temporarily.  If he comes back at all. 

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6 hours ago, Steelshanks Walton said:

By virtue of having already reanimated the dead,  yes.  Whereas Mel hasn't done anything even similar.  So yeah this is the most likely scernario if Jon is to come back temporarily.  If he comes back at all. 

We have seen a drunk, never-before-shown-power, not-all-that-devout Thoros of Myr resurrect the dead using, as pointed out by @40 Thousand Skeletonsstandard Red Priest rites and rituals. So again, why is it more likely that a man dead thousands of years will bring someone back to life?

Additionally, the Night's King has been dead thousands of years and is not presently a character or entity in the novels. Any reference to him is obviously someone confusing the show with the books. If you are attempting to reference the alleged driving force behind the White Walkers then that would be the Great Other - a being or entity that may or may not even exist.

This "theory" has zero textual evidence to support it and is only intended to vilify and demonize a character that the OP doesn't like. If you don't like Jon and don't want to see him assist in saving Westeros then you probably shouldn't read the next two books; if you can't tell that this is where the story is going then you haven't read the last five.

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59 minutes ago, Red Man Racey said:

We have seen a drunk, never-before-shown-power, not-all-that-devout Thoros of Myr resurrect the dead using, as pointed out by @40 Thousand Skeletonsstandard Red Priest rites and rituals. So again, why is it more likely that a man dead thousands of years will bring someone back to life?

Additionally, the Night's King has been dead thousands of years and is not presently a character or entity in the novels. Any reference to him is obviously someone confusing the show with the books. If you are attempting to reference the alleged driving force behind the White Walkers then that would be the Great Other - a being or entity that may or may not even exist.

This "theory" has zero textual evidence to support it and is only intended to vilify and demonize a character that the OP doesn't like. If you don't like Jon and don't want to see him assist in saving Westeros then you probably shouldn't read the next two books; if you can't tell that this is where the story is going then you haven't read the last five.

I can't understand how people can entertain the idea that Jon won't come back one way or another, given he previous 5 books and the story being told. It's a massive reading comprehension fail, and it gets to the point of being funny even. 

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On 7/20/2017 at 0:39 PM, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

This is correct.

But since I did suggest Mel will bring Jon back, I will proceed to defend that aspect. Not a shred of evidence? I wholeheartedly disagree. The evidence is rather straightforward. We have seen a red priest, using a standard red priest ritual, resurrect Beric. Jon has been probably fatally wounded, and there is a powerful red priest nearby who has lately been having visions of Jon being AAR, so she has a direct motive to attempt resurrection if he should die. Additionally, Jon conspicuously sent everyone with king's blood away from the Wall except Shireen, so Mel may decide, wrongly thinking that Stannis is dead, to burn Shireen to resurrect Jon. So there you go. The conclusion is speculation, but there is certainly evidence for that specific event happening.

I have to disagree with you.  Bringing someone back from the dead is a rare event.  Think of all the red priests running around in Essos and we have not had many reports of the dead coming back to life.  If I had to guess which side will resurrect Jon, it will be the side that has been doing it all throughout since the start of the novel.  The white walkers' ability to resurrect is a sure thing.  Mel being able to do so is a tiny maybe.  What you're trying to present as evidence is less convincing than Lothar's. 

 

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6 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

I have to disagree with you.  Bringing someone back from the dead is a rare event.  Think of all the red priests running around in Essos and we have not had many reports of the dead coming back to life.  If I had to guess which side will resurrect Jon, it will be the side that has been doing it all throughout since the start of the novel.  The white walkers' ability to resurrect is a sure thing.  Mel being able to do so is a tiny maybe.  What you're trying to present as evidence is less convincing than Lothar's. 

 

And please do enlighten us as to what this so called textual evidence is that the OP has presented. If you've actually read the books you wouldn't state that there is evidence in the books for the OP's ludicrous theory. Judging by the OPs past posts it appears that he/she is an obvious troll who appears to revel in Jon hate threads. 

Let's say that even if the WWs have the ability to raise the dead, which has only been implied in the books and has not been explicitly shown, the dead that have been so raised are mindless zombies who don't think or function as humans anymore. On the other hand, Beric who was raised through fire magic could still think and function in human society. Even LS, although consumed with revenge and rather far gone, still has human thoughts/feelings to a certain extend. So that's why people theorize that Mel who happens to be a fire priestess same as Thoros of Myr may have the knowledge/spells to raise Jon from the dead if he is dead that is. And FYI, GRRM didn't write 42 POV chapters on Jon for him to die and be resurrected as a mindless zombie. 

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