[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Repercussion

[lakin1013]

3 hours ago, no_one_... said:

 

Sansa - While she's trying to warn Jon about the Southerner's she's not listening to him about Army of the Undead. ....  She seems to see the "character" of her Dad, Rob, and Jon as flaws/weakness rather than consider they had other flaws/weaknesses etc.

 

One curious point is that I cannot remember any scene, at all, where Sansa reflects on her on flaws.  She does remark on always wanting to leave Winterfell, and she does tell Brienne that she should have gone with her the first time.  But I cannot remember any self-reflection, or awareness of her actions. She IS always telling Jon how to behave, or how Ned or Robb failed but I certainly do not see much from Sansa regarding where she may have  failed. 

[Meera of Tarth]

I didn't like that Jon and Sansa discuss how to rule but forget about Bran.

[no_one_...]

15 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

One curious point is that I cannot remember any scene, at all, where Sansa reflects on her on flaws.  She does remark on always wanting to leave Winterfell, and she does tell Brienne that she should have gone with her the first time.  But I cannot remember any self-reflection, or awareness of her actions. She IS always telling Jon how to behave, or how Ned or Robb failed but I certainly do not see much from Sansa regarding where she may have  failed. 

Other than generically referring to herself as a stupid girl (which is more self pity than reflection), none that I remember.  I will say after rewatching the episode I may have overprojected last Season's Sansa on this season.  After she takes back the Joffery comparison she does genuinely reach out to him Jon.  But, she still wasn't listening.  So at least there was some small step forward.  Also, in her character's defense on the show she's had no one really to reach out to in years.  But, some introspection in those isolated times does seem like a natural progression that was just ignored to get back to your point.

What has me disappointed with Stone Heart Arya was she lost what she gained making that whole arc lose its impact.  There were times while training where she learned to be honest with herself about how she feels about and connects with others.  Even beyond the Hound turning her heart so to speak she was even able to have some empathy with Cersi (all be it in anger at losing a close family member).  She sized up the Actress situation and turned on the Faceless Men b/c she knew it was wrong.  Next thing you know she's filling the plot role of Lady Frankenstein ... then when that's over, let's quickly reconnect her with her humanity.

 

[Ser Snowflake]

20 hours ago, zeus said:

So the only way into Kings Landing is through Blackwater bay. Euron had to sail through the Bay to get to Kingslanding and Danny would have had to sail to just outside the Bay to get to Drangonstone.

 

Does the Targaryen fleet have him covered? is there just a massive log jam of ships in the bay right now? Is it teleportation at its finest again? Just different time frames? How quick would have all of Eurons ships exited the bay and wouldn't the massive hoards of ships from both parties been seen by either?

 

This.

1. Dragonstone is fairly close to KL, Euron could have taken the fortress and held it against Dany. Cersei doesn't have much of a fleet, but at the time of her palaver with Euron, she knew where Dany was heading. Cersei and Jaimie discussed where the dragon would most likely land in the preceding scene. LOL

2. Dragonstone should not have been abandoned. Why not have Stannis loyalists still holding the castle in his name? Stannis held DS for 15 years, after Robert's Rebellion. It makes no sense that a fortress with the history of DS to be simply left abandoned. If Stannis abandoned his stronghold when he marched on the wall, Cersei should have seized it.

3. It is not believable that Euron have a 1000 fleet navy. There are no trees on the Iron Islands, and to my knowledge, Euron has not been raiding Westeros at all at this point. Where did he get his armada?

4. If Euron has 1000 ships, he could easily take KL. I don't think Cersei has much when it comes to ships. She definitely doesn't have anything to fuck with a 1000 ship armada. What is stopping Euron from seizing KL with his huge armada?

5. Cersei has nobody outside of KL and the Westerlands supporting her. She killed off the HIgh Septon, The Lord of Highgarden, his heir and Queen Margery. The Faith still have members throughout the realm, and Highgarden commands a huge army. There is no way that Cersei should be able to hold on to the Iron Throne. Who is supporting her besides Qyburn, the Mountain, and her one handed brother? There is such thing as making too many enemies. The North would never support her. Ditto for the Riverlands. Littlefinger betrayed her by harboring Sansa, so the the Vale won't support her. Ditto for Dorne, the Reach, and the Stormlands. And finally Euron is unreliable and just as likely to betray her than to ally with her.

[OldGimletEye]

On 7/17/2017 at 8:53 AM, Lord Varys said:

Does it make any sense that Dany, coming with such a huge fleet, is landing on Dragonstone instead of, you know, attacking KL directly?.

 

On 7/17/2017 at 9:02 AM, SuperMario said:

Well, if Dany attacked KL immediately then we couldn't have that emotionally empty moment of her walking all over Dragonstone.

I don’t know, getting thousands of men off of boats and onto a hostile beach, isn’t an exactly easy evolution to pull off. And is likely to turn into one giant goat rope, real fast, if not planned properly. And last I heard Dothraki aren’t exactly what you’d call soldiers of the sea and I don’t think neither Dany, nor Tyrion went to amphibious warfare school.

Then again, it would seem getting thousands of men off boats and putting them on Dragonstone and then taking those same men and putting them back onto boats would seem like a waste of time and have the potential to turn into one giant cluster and also, I’d, assume trying to feed all those men and their horses on little ol’ Dragonstone would be a bit difficult. 

I always thought somewhere right around the Saltpans would be the most logical place to land thousands of men in the shortest period time possible.
 

Of course it's not likely D & D would think any of this out. Let's remember, LF was able to march the entire Vale Army deep into the North without anybody noticing. Ramsay Bolton might be able to find 20 good men, but evidently he can’t find one fuckin’ guy, in the entire North, to do a bit of recon.

[Anarchy99]

Personally, I'm very excited about all the possibilities for drinking games that the Westeros table presents for Tyrion, Missandei and Grey Worm.

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

I actually liked the episode a lot more than I thought I would. Guess I wasn't bothered by a lot of the things other people were annoyed by, though I can understand most of the complaints. The Sam shit scene, for example, I thought was well put together, albeit too long, but I understand why people found it unnecessary, especially considering it had fairly little payoff. 

My only two real issues were:

1. Sansa - I don't think I'd care if I didn't like BookSansa, because I'd just assume she has some horrible stockholm syndrome from her time with the Lannisters, leading her to wish to emulate them at times (or something), and that it's lead to her having a few different personalities to grapple with. That is what we're supposed to be seeing, right? A scarred individual who's constantly on the verge of a mental break due to the trauma she's suffered? Because why else would she suggest doing the very thing to the Umber/Karstark kids that Joffrey did to her (punishing for the sins of the father/brother)? And then go on to compare her brother to Joffrey (even though he's the most opposite thing to him)? I'm not saying her idea wasn't valid. I thought Jon and Sansa's approaches both had merits, but it seems strange that Sansa was the one who wanted the kids to pay, and then compared Jon to Joffrey. I'm also assuming that her mental instability is why she didn't realise that it would be wrong to publicly argue with the new King. She must have figured, Joff and Ramsay were evil and you couldn't argue with them in public, Jon is good so I can argue with him in public. Makes no sense, but sure, she's understandably confused.

But then, the argument itself was stupid (as has already been pointed out!) because, a} the 'loyal' people were the Mormonts (who have a home), Wildlings (who Jon then gave the NW castles to, sort of? But also, why would he give them land when they're not actually his subjects and don't want to be?), and the Vale Lords, who were following their Liege Lords orders, not being loyal to the Starks, so there wasn't really anyone to give the castles to. And, b ) even if we say that some of the Mormonts/Mormont men really outdid themselves on the battle field and deserve something, there should be tons of Bolton land up for grabs.

2. Euron - I haven't seen really anyone else upset about this, but his costume bothered me SO MUCH!!! I know some people liked it, but I just did not see how it fit in the GOT universe. If he walked past me in the street dressed like that, I would not look twice. It just seemed too modern, and I couldn't tell you anything else really about that scene because I never got past his look. 

[Ser Snowflake]

14 hours ago, Ser Edmure Tully said:

Ned was just an idiot though. Too dumb to live, too dumb to inspire loyalty, told his kids dumb braggy stories about how he killed the best swordsman who ever lived with his wrong hand while whacking his dick with his good one. 

Sometimes I wonder whether these people actually read the books. They clearly do not understand the characters in the slightest.

Ned was dumb.....I'll give you that. 

But to say that Ned didn't inspire loyalty is just not true. Ned was very much loved throughout the North and the wider realm. In the books, a son of House Dayne was named after Ned because of the love his parents had for Ned. The Mountain clans also speak highly of Ned Stark.

Ned should have never went south of the neck. The North wouldn't have to remember shit because they would have never lost Winterfell and the Red Wedding would have never happened. Roose wouldn't have even dreamed of rebellion against the Starks if Ned was still alive. 

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

Just now, Ser Snowflake said:

Ned was dumb.....I'll give you that. 

But to say that Ned didn't inspire loyalty is just not true. Ned was very much loved throughout the North and the wider realm. In the books, a son of House Dayne was named after Ned because of the love his parents had for Ned. The Mountain clans also speak highly of Ned Stark.

Ned should have never went south of the neck. The North wouldn't have to remember shit because they would have never lost Winterfell and the Red Wedding would have never happened. Roose wouldn't have even dreamed of rebellion against the Starks if Ned was still alive. 

I think that's the point, lol. Ned Stark in the books inspired a ton of loyalty so that we see even after house stark is pretty much destroyed, the North still remembers. The Flints, Norreys, etc. are willing to fight for Stannis to try and rescue the Ned's little girl. The other families are forced to submit due to hostages, but appear to be planning rebellions. In the show? Nope! The North has long forgotten Ned. Jon and Sansa can't rally any of the Northern houses to their cause except the Mormonts, but that had more to do with Davos than the Starks.

[Le Cygne]

For any of Ned's kids to say he's stupid is bad enough, because he was a good father. But for one he died trying to protect to say that is just beyond wrong. Then again, honor is stupid and gets you killed according to the show.

[Simon Tam]

Did not like this episode:

* Dragonstone abandoned - maybe we will see some of Stannis castle crew next episode...maybe not

* Littlefinger losing direction and plan

* Sams chamber pot and soup scene (Yes, it is like serving the first year in the red army but without waepons. We got it)

* Aryas mass killing. What, there were no guards on duty not allowed to drink alcohol? Nobody missed Walder while Arya happily carved the face? She throwed assasination school after two terms but is able to copy voice and walk of a victim?

* Jaime not inquiring deeper about the blowing of sept incident

 

[Rhodan]

3 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

For any of Ned's kids to say he's stupid is bad enough, because he was a good father. But for one he died trying to protect to say that is just beyond wrong. Then again, honor is stupid and gets you killed according to the show.

We all know that Show!Sansa is becoming the case of the worst adaptational characterisation, surpassing even the inconsistency of Show!Cersei. Benioff and Weiss want her to be cross between second Arya and second Show!Ellaria.

[Ser Quork]

9 hours ago, no_one_... said:

<>.

3. Woman fighting in the North - Joan of Arc, Valkary Shield Maidens, English/Welsh warriors at the time of Roman invasion and probably others show that it's not unheard of for Women to fight in European History, especially in extreme conditions.

Unrelated (how laggy this site can be, I know I shouldn't look a gifthorse in the mouth).

 

More to the point, in-universe, the Mormont women are fighters.  This "I may be small" speech really bothered me because she should be saying that Mormont women have always fought and her mother died at the Red Wedding.

6 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I didn't like that Jon and Sansa discuss how to rule but forget about Bran.

And in the show Sansa's even discovered this since his supposed killing and she still hasn't discussed this with Jon!

4 hours ago, Edd Tollett's One Vote said:

<>

1. Sansa - I don't think I'd care if I didn't like BookSansa, because I'd just assume she has some horrible stockholm syndrome from her time with the Lannisters, leading her to wish to emulate them at times (or something), and that it's lead to her having a few different personalities to grapple with. That is what we're supposed to be seeing, right? A scarred individual who's constantly on the verge of a mental break due to the trauma she's suffered? Because why else would she suggest doing the very thing to the Umber/Karstark kids that Joffrey did to her (punishing for the sins of the father/brother)? And then go on to compare her brother to Joffrey (even though he's the most opposite thing to him)? I'm not saying her idea wasn't valid. I thought Jon and Sansa's approaches both had merits, but it seems strange that Sansa was the one who wanted the kids to pay, and then compared Jon to Joffrey. I'm also assuming that her mental instability is why she didn't realise that it would be wrong to publicly argue with the new King. She must have figured, Joff and Ramsay were evil and you couldn't argue with them in public, Jon is good so I can argue with him in public. Makes no sense, but sure, she's understandably confused.

<>

I think you're giving the writers too much credit.  I'd be more relaxed about it if that was their intention, but they clearly think Sansa is "a player" and a "bad ass" who's learnt at the feet of "clever" Cersei and "Master Manipulator" LF.  Sandra has no empathy. Ugh.

4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

For any of Ned's kids to say he's stupid is bad enough, because he was a good father. But for one he died trying to protect to say that is just beyond wrong. Then again, honor is stupid and gets you killed according to the show.

^^ Exactly.  That's the showrunners' view and it's vile.

[Regular John Umber]

 So many things would be better if they'd just kept Lady Stoneheart in: Arya wouldn't be ridiculous; Jaime's plot would make sense; Brienne's plot would make sense; The BwB would make sense.

 

 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

The authors have also forgot that ASOIAF happenes in the medieval times. Euron dressed like Mike Jagger def doesn't belong to this epoche. Soldiers asking Arya if she is of drinking age is absurd as if they asked her to show her driving license. In the Middle Ages in Europe people used to drink wine, beer and ale from early age b/c clean water wasn't always available.

[majgat]

If feel like the characters in this show have high speed optic fiber connection to the weirwood internet. How come Jaime and Cersei know so much shit? Do they follow weekly bulletin: Westeros Journal? This is getting out of hand.....

Arya scene with Lannister troops felt really flat for me. And Ed Sheeran in it? Epic fail. I was hoping Arya would snap and stab him in his stupid face (have nothing against Sheeran, but the scene was so awkward, I wanted to claw my eyes out).

Jon vs. Sansa: I dont even.....Steve the intern, or whomever is writing this shit. You are trying to make them so smart, yet they are so stupid. Undermining the authority of a king in front of his subjects, I mean great job. You couldn't have taken 5 minutes before or after the meeting? Jesus. Also, making Robb and Ned stupid? Thanks, but no thanks. Yes, they made their mistakes, but they were in no way stupid.

Emo!Euron scene was bad, yet I still enjoyed him dissing Jaime :-D Swagity swag.

The only thing worth mentioning is Sandor scenes with BwB and Dany's arrival. These two, I enjoyed.

[The Bear Who Knocks]

Euron: I remembered when you crushed us at sea

Yeah sure it was the lannisters. Remember Tywin was such a genius all his ships got burnt. This is canon to the show.

 

[RetconKillah]

I think the worst part about the episode is that I'll have to go into work and listen to everyone talk about how great the episode was and describe characters instead of remembering their names (a very common thing that happens).

But one of the major issues I had was when Sansa was telling Jon about how the south is undefended, as if there is no Moat Cailin to defend the north.

It also seemed as if the acting was flat. Almost as if everyone has given up on being typecast and want to move on.

For a first episode of the season it didn't inspire much hope (as far as pacing), unless it is just a setup for the episodes to come that will tie up all the loose ends before the big climax and (maybe) resolution.

At this point (very early yes) it seems like D&D are just catering to the fans and are going for hashtags instead of quality. And that dialogue....

[Han Snow]

barf barf

last 4 seasons. this episode was no different

[Meera of Tarth]

4 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

More to the point, in-universe, the Mormont women are fighters.  This "I may be small" speech really bothered me because she should be saying that Mormont women have always fought and her mother died at the Red Wedding.

And in the show Sansa's even discovered this since his supposed killing and she still hasn't discussed this with Jon!

I think you're giving the writers too much credit.  I'd be more relaxed about it if that was their intention, but they clearly think Sansa is "a player" and a "bad ass" who's learnt at the feet of "clever" Cersei and "Master Manipulator" LF.  Sandra has no empathy. Ugh.

^^ Exactly.  That's the showrunners' view and it's vile.

ActuaLly Jon also knows that he is alive from Sam. But thwy just dont care.