[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Repercussion

[Lurid Jester]

Just now, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

But she also said he's "great" at ruling, just 30 seconds earlier.  Maybe she thinks Joffrey was also "great" at ruling.

Very true. I'm leery about what's going to happen between Jon and Sansa.  That family has spent too many years being kicked by everyone, I don't want to see them going at each other.  I'm worried that's where the show is going. 

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

10 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

I think you're giving the writers too much credit.  I'd be more relaxed about it if that was their intention, but they clearly think Sansa is "a player" and a "bad ass" who's learnt at the feet of "clever" Cersei and "Master Manipulator" LF.  Sandra has no empathy. Ugh.

Oh lol, I know that's not their intention. I was more joking, but also partly meaning that if I just watched the show and didn't read the books, or know about anything they'd said in interviews (or the actors had said in interviews), that probably is what I'd assume was happening. I'm sure I'd then be disappointed when the narrative continued to reward her for this instead of someone getting her the help she needed lol, but that would be my own band-aid on the narrative to try and comprehend it. 

[Roboginger]

23 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I don't find too much to rant about, I broke down and watched the episode after all, because the spoilers indicated no wolves or dragons dead.

OMG Sansa sucks!  I always wonder when the show does something like this, even they even know it, or if this is them again showing women on top/women are powerful.  Even children!  Sansa is a Player!  LMAO, except for that whole 'never take sides against the family in public public part'  I guess she missed that tutorial.  Dumb as dirt.  So dumb she doesn't apparently realize that all she has to do is tell the Vale Lords that she' wasn't f. kidnapped by Ramsay and LF is done.

Talking like this will get you banned around these parts friend. I agree though, why is like fucking 8 year old girl lady Mormont talking like a battle hardened 30 year old warrior and being listend like she has battle experience

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

24 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Now that the site seems to be working well (knock on wood), I just wanted to thank you for the tradition of this thread.  I wondered if you'd be here this season to do it, and it was great to see your name and avi when I showed up.  It was just hard to maintain reading and posting here yesterday and Sunday.

Funny thing is, I might, this week anyway, go for the old name of the thread: NITPICKS, LOL  I doubt that feeling will last, as the butterfly effect reasserts itself.

My main issues were, of course, Sandra and her all over the place advice in all the wrong ways and places.  Arya being LS, I guess.  Then they try and return her to herself with perhaps seeing the humanity in the Lannister soldiers.  I think Dany and Dragonstone could have been better, perhaps they should have had the castle checked out first, then let her land on dragon back?  Also, Jaime as Larry with Jaime peeking out through his eyes, sometimes.  Ughhh

That's just a start on my thoughts, as it's been a couple days now.  I have to admit, after the travesty of the past couple seasons, I'm surprised I didn't hate hate hate it, even enjoyed some of it.  My first thougths on the episode, minus NITPICKS was that I thought it seemed they tried to restore some heart to the story after the horrid last couple of seasons.  BUT, knowing the D's, I suspect a nasty trap in that thought as well.  It is their style.  I suspect the more I settle into it........full on RANTS will return from me, LOL

That's kinda how I feel, I didn't hate it enough to warrant a rant.  Most of the problems with it comes from the fact it continues the awful stuff that has already been done in season 5 and 6.

[Stark_in_Winterfell]

On 7/16/2017 at 9:11 PM, Nami said:

why is Cersei queen if she blew up a bunch of nobles in the sept of baelor? king's landing should be on the ground and cersei executed by now. is there any house loyal to her outside of lannister circle?
who warned her about daenerys from essos?
why is jamie still loyal to her when she doesn't answer any of his key questions? does he have personality?
why is everyone from dany's clique wearing black? that's hilarious
so arya killed lord walter before killing all Freys...how did she hide his body? she's like 15 in the tv show, how exactly did she move his body around without anyone seeing?
oh, why everyone in the north chose Ned Stark's bastard as King in the North and not his legitimate daughter? this is from last season but I'm still annoyed that they are listening to him. to them, he's a bastard and the rules of the universe created by GRRM makes me obviously think they wouldn't choose a bastard to rule them.
 

Good questions.  Here's my take on them.

“why is Cersei queen if she blew up a bunch of nobles in the sept of baelor? “

She blew up everyone in Kings Landing who had the power to stop her.

 “who warned her about daenerys from essos?”

Her little birds.  News of an armada with 3 very big dragons, a Dothraki horde and an unsullied army tends to get people’s attention. The common folk will talk. The navigation technology of the GOT world restricts ships to sailing close to land, so they were likely to have passed near trading vessels along the way.

“why is jamie still loyal to her when she doesn't answer any of his key questions? does he have personality?”

Jamie is loyal to Cercei above and beyond anyone and everyone else and will likely remain so until he dies, unless this business about Tomen’s death becomes a problem between them. That is how his character is written and it is the one thing you can count on Jaime to remain constant in. No, when he is around Cercei, he does not express a personality of his own. They are two halves of the same whole.

“why is everyone from dany's clique wearing black?” Traveling uniform perhaps? Dragons ate her wardrobe expert? They ran out of colored leather to make sea faring clothing with?

“so arya killed lord walter before killing all Freys...how did she hide his body?” The faceless men trained her to be a very discreet, badass assassin. There are lots of dark, smelly places in a castle to stash a body no one will find for weeks, months, even years. Arya is stronger and more resourceful than she looks, as she has demonstrated in every season.

“oh, why everyone in the north chose Ned Stark's bastard as King in the North and not his legitimate daughter?”  The Northerners prefer a strong military leader to be their king, especially in light of their current circumstances. John is a proven military leader which gives him preference over the true born daughter who does not know military tactics and has been married to two of the enemies. Bastardy has been overlooked in history when the people wanted the male bloodline of the previous ruler to continue ruling, which is why Cercei made such an effort to eliminate all of Roberts bastard children when he died. The northerners are hungry for independence from the nonsense of the King’s Landing rule and want to return to their former glory days of self-governance.

I found the episode a bit slowish myself. But I did not see any flaws in the storyline. A lot of the information about the story line comes from the books even though many aspects of the books are being left out of the t.v. series.

[AEJON TARGARYEN]

3 hours ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

But she also said he's "great" at ruling, just 30 seconds earlier.  Maybe she thinks Joffrey was also "great" at ruling.

It's not so black and white, he makes good decisions but she wants him to consider and respect her opinion. 

Anyway, this entire storyline is pointless. 

3 hours ago, Roboginger said:

Talking like this will get you banned around these parts friend. I agree though, why is like fucking 8 year old girl lady Mormont talking like a battle hardened 30 year old warrior and being listend like she has battle experience

I know, she's a child AND a girl, it's just so unrealistic and ridiculous. 

[Roboginger]

46 minutes ago, TRILOGY said:

It's not so black and white, he makes good decisions but she wants him to consider and respect her opinion. 

Anyway, this entire storyline is pointless. 

I know, she's a child AND a girl, it's just so unrealistic and ridiculous. 

Exactly they should know their place , the part about her being a girl in there to ruffle some feathers

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

53 minutes ago, TRILOGY said:

It's not so black and white, he makes good decisions but she wants him to consider and respect her opinion. 

Anyway, this entire storyline is pointless. 

I know, she's a child AND a girl, it's just so unrealistic and ridiculous. 

They put her in there because they cut out one of the best moments in ADWD where a brave young girl made a great speech that moved the reader, yes I am talking about Wylla Manderly, but they wanted to copy it.

The problem is that the result of that feel good speech in the real world is that it changes nothing, Wylla made a great speech but it didn't shame the Freys into retreating from their position, it didn't galvanize Wyman into accepting Davos' offer.  She was dragged away. And that's why it was brave, you say it even though knowing no one was likely to listen to you.    

In the show even before she opened her mouth I already knew that everyone would agree with her, because she's not a real person, nor are her audience, they are all set pieces for D&D to virtue signal about how they are onboard the "girl power" train.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

She's insane.  Jon should lock her in her room for her own good and for the good of the North.

LOLOL  I like it, maybe Jon can send Sandra to Sam at The Citadel.  They seem to have a mental ward.  What's one more chamber pot?

[Cas Stark]

2 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

LOLOL  I like it, maybe Jon can send Sandra to Sam at The Citadel.  They seem to have a mental ward.  What's one more chamber pot?

She needs therapy.  It would be one thing if I thought that Sansa turning bloodthirsty, into a mini Cersei was going to be some type of comment on the nature of trauma....but I know the show well enough to know that they see this as her being a BossAssIndividual and a Badass, not an unhinged destructive nut who has learned all the wrong lessons from the wrongs done to her and who should not be allowed to speak in public after that Fredo performance.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Didn't she say Jon was a good ruler after the Joffrey comment, not before? I think she only mentioned Joffrey to get his attention. Her point was that listening to opposing views is one of the marks of a good ruler. One of the reasons why Stannis is still alive in the books is because he listened to Davos even when he didn't want to (I know, I know, he did it in private).

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Didn't she say Jon was a good ruler after the Joffrey comment, not before? I think she only mentioned Joffrey to get his attention. Her point was that listening to opposing views is one of the marks of a good ruler. One of the reasons why Stannis is still alive in the books is because he listened to Davos even when he didn't want to (I know, I know, he did it in private).

It was a very poorly constructed segment.  Jon does listen to others, he always has.  But, contradicting him on issues of loyalty in a public setting like that was absolutely undermining him, just as he said it was.  She disagrees w/him, then berates him, then compares him to Joff, then says he's 'really good' at being a leader....but he has to be smarter than her dead father and brother.  I guess it escaped her notice that a lot of ruthless people have also been betrayed and are dead.

[Hoo]

What is the purpose of Jon yelling "My decision is final."   Why yell?  What's his problem?

He is an emotional mess!!!

[Eurybia]

6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It was a very poorly constructed segment.  Jon does listen to others, he always has.  But, contradicting him on issues of loyalty in a public setting like that was absolutely undermining him, just as he said it was.  She disagrees w/him, then berates him, then compares him to Joff, then says he's 'really good' at being a leader....but he has to be smarter than her dead father and brother.  I guess it escaped her notice that a lot of ruthless people have also been betrayed and are dead.

"Don't be noble; it gets you killed" was set alongside "Don't be treacherous; it gets you killed" in this episode. The morality of this show is so conditional to whatever character is performing the action. I guess being a treacherous Lannister is okay and a treacherous Frey is bad? Is it because the Lannisters are pretty and one of them was Charles Dance? Or maybe be a Stark, but a Boss Ass Stark?

[Lady Fevre Dream]

LOL  This is more of a NITPICK than a Rant but, there's a thread title out there that reminded me of one of my initial thoughts during my watch;  Hands of Gold: 

~Cough, cough~There wasn't a chain of the Hand, there wasn't Hands of Gold, there wasn't a Simon Silvertongue, but mostly, thanks to the lack of actual Hands of Gold..........using the song?  Eh, kinda stupid.  Still, I did like the scene if only for the fact of a chance at seeing Maise play Arya instead of LS.

But come on..........they never used the damn chain. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

It was a very poorly constructed segment.  Jon does listen to others, he always has.  But, contradicting him on issues of loyalty in a public setting like that was absolutely undermining him, just as he said it was.  She disagrees w/him, then berates him, then compares him to Joff, then says he's 'really good' at being a leader....but he has to be smarter than her dead father and brother.  I guess it escaped her notice that a lot of ruthless people have also been betrayed and are dead.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think she berated him, and I think she backed off pretty easily. But like I said in an earlier post, the problem isn't necessarily punishing treason but rather rewarding loyalty, especially when their supporters were taking a huge risk by attacking the Boltons. I mentioned this on a different thread, but if Cersei is anything like her father, she'll try to take down Jon by bribing a disillusioned northern lord to take him out for her.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think she berated him, and I think she backed off pretty easily. But like I said in an earlier post, the problem isn't necessarily punishing treason but rather rewarding loyalty, especially when their supporters were taking a huge risk by attacking the Boltons. I mentioned this on a different thread, but if Cersei is anything like her father, she'll try to take down Jon by bribing a disillusioned northern lord to take him out for her.

They can reward loyalty by giving the Dreadfort away.....and I'm sure there are other now defunct Northern Houses whose lands can be given to "loyal" houses...although my recollection is pretty sketchy, I don't recall many of the Houses in the show being loyal outside of the Mormonts, pretty much every Nothern lord was a traitor and refused to help them.  

Cersei is going to have her hands full with the dragon queen down South, she  has many many more closer enemies than Jon Snow all the way up North where she's never taking her army.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Just now, Cas Stark said:

They can reward loyalty by giving the Dreadfort away.....and I'm sure there are other now defunct Northern Houses whose lands can be given to "loyal" houses...although my recollection is pretty sketchy, I don't recall many of the Houses in the show being loyal outside of the Mormonts, pretty much every Nothern lord was a traitor and refused to help them.  

Cersei is going to have her hands full with the dragon queen down South, she  has many many more closer enemies than Jon Snow all the way up North where she's never taking her army.

I see your point about Cersei, but I don't think they would have included a conversation about how she is still a threat if it wasn't going to be important later on. 

[Cas Stark]

Just now, The Bard of Banefort said:

I see your point about Cersei, but I don't think they would have included a conversation about how she is still a threat if it wasn't going to be important later on. 

I don't know if you've seen the spoilers or not....so I won't go any further.

[The Bear Who Knocks]

I mean we could had useful dialogue like Davos interjecting about their being a trove of Dragonglass on dragonstone that will be useful in the war but nah cant have that need to forced lyanna mormont scene of her talking down a battle hardened lord who takes it for no reason.