Mihai Brasoveanu

The vision in the flames (SPOILERS)

49 posts in this topic

How about the vision Clegane had in the flames?

"Ice. A wall of Ice. The Wall. 
It's where the Wall meets the Sea. There's a castle there.
There's a mountain, looks like an arrow head. The dead are marching past.
Thousands of them!"

The castle is Eastwatch-by-the-sea, but what mountain shaped like an arrowhead is he seeing?

I think this also settles the Wun-Wun zombie part. What Bran was seeing is what happens after the Walkers get past the wall.

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I thought he was relating to the Fist of the First Men. With their increased budget this season, as seen through Dragonstone, it could be that Fellowship of the Jon will make their stand there in a badass long shot . Could be another new place entirely though

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I think that the mountain should be the Fist of the First Men as well. Although I don't know if the castle by the sea refers to Eastwatch or Shadow Tower.

Jon thinks that the dead are coming from Hardhome but they actually went to pay a visit to Bran in Season 6. From Season 4, we find out that the Three-eyed-Raven's location is very north to Craster's Keep. By looking at the map of Westeros, going through FotFM and Shadow Tower(or Westwatch by the bridge) seems more logical than Eastwatch by the Sea.

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Agreed, I think the first part is Eastwatch but the mountain is a shift to another location.  Could be the bridge of skulls.  However, the pop from the wood-coals suggested to me that mayhaps the wall was/is breached, with snow replacing the cinders we saw in the scene... mayhaps.

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My question is why can random ass man Sandor Clegane read the flames now?  

If that just goes like that why do we need red priests and why isn't everybody sitting in front of a fire watching BBC news? 

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3 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

My question is why can random ass man Sandor Clegane read the flames now?  

If that just goes like that why do we need red priests and why isn't everybody sitting in front of a fire watching BBC news? 

I agree that there is a sense of cheese with that, but Stannis also saw a vision too, so I think the intent is to show that someone associated with R'hllor is getting visions associated with the Great Other.  Also serves as a device for any conversion on Sandor's part, or even merely him having more respect for the religion.  

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8 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

My question is why can random ass man Sandor Clegane read the flames now?  

If that just goes like that why do we need red priests and why isn't everybody sitting in front of a fire watching BBC news? 

The only logical explanation is that Thoros of Myr worked some spells in the fire. Maybe something similar to Melisandre-Stannis vision in Season 2 finale.

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2 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

My question is why can random ass man Sandor Clegane read the flames now?  

If that just goes like that why do we need red priests and why isn't everybody sitting in front of a fire watching BBC news? 

He can't read the flames. Thoros showed him visions in the flames, like the red woman did with Stannis. It's not a power the hound can do on his own whenever he wants to.

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Could the mountain with an arrowhead foreshadow the likely upcoming battle against FrankenGregor?

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2 hours ago, Khal Varys said:

I agree that there is a sense of cheese with that, but Stannis also saw a vision too, so I think the intent is to show that someone associated with R'hllor is getting visions associated with the Great Other.  Also serves as a device for any conversion on Sandor's part, or even merely him having more respect for the religion.  

The only appealing way I can interprete it is that it showed Sandor that fire in itself is not evil and may be used for good things, may hold knowledge. So he would overcome his fear and loathing of fire. As that is ultimately the side he will fight for against the walkers.

2 hours ago, Ice Walker said:

The only logical explanation is that Thoros of Myr worked some spells in the fire. Maybe something similar to Melisandre-Stannis vision in Season 2 finale.

Eh... logical explanation... who needs that? 

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2 hours ago, Khal Varys said:

I agree that there is a sense of cheese with that, but Stannis also saw a vision too, so I think the intent is to show that someone associated with R'hllor is getting visions associated with the Great Other.  Also serves as a device for any conversion on Sandor's part, or even merely him having more respect for the religion.  

The only appealing way I can interprete it is that it showed Sandor that fire in itself is not evil and may be used for good things, may hold knowledge. So he would overcome his fear and loathing of fire. As that is ultimately the side he will fight for against the walkers.

2 hours ago, Ice Walker said:

The only logical explanation is that Thoros of Myr worked some spells in the fire. Maybe something similar to Melisandre-Stannis vision in Season 2 finale.

Eh... logical explanation... who needs that? 

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I think the vision refers to Eastwatch, and I wonder if this is the show's parallel to Melisandre's vision in book of towers rising out of the sea. Also, if they respect the map (this time) then the Shadow Tower is not near the sea, therefore it should be Eastwatch. Jon and the wildlings left Hardhome on ships, but somehow still ended up north of the Wall to have the ridiculous tense moment with Ser Alliser. Anyway, for all we know the Night King and his people could just be zipping around the cold north like LF and Varys. So I'm thinking it's Eastwach-by-the-Sea where the attack will take place. 

With regards to the WW scene at the beginning, I'm pretty sure that was in the present, and that giant was not Wun Wun. Plenty of giants died north of the Wall (there were a few in that army), and since the producers are racist towards giants, they all look the same minus hair color. :P 

I am greatly confused on how Bran's powers work presently. It seems he can do whatever at any point now.

I was actually expecting to see Hodor in that army. They are more than capable of pulling that knife twist.

Regarding the mountain and the arrowhead shape, I assumed that was related to Dragonstone and dragonglass. After all, a lot of the episode was related to the title itself.

As to why the Hound was able to see it. It's got to be just like Stannis and other people. I think almost everyone in the BwB can see something in the flames by now (at least in the books). If only Gendry could finish his cruise and get back, my theory could be proven right.

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I was a little surprised that The Hound could read the visions in the fire so clearly.  Melisandra's interpretations seem to be hit or miss in their accuracy, and she has been reading the flames for awhile now. Could it be because The Hound has already been "kissed", or baptised (so to speak) by fire?  

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5 hours ago, Dornish Hen said:

I was a little surprised that The Hound could read the visions in the fire so clearly.  Melisandra's interpretations seem to be hit or miss in their accuracy, and she has been reading the flames for awhile now. Could it be because The Hound has already been "kissed", or baptised (so to speak) by fire?  

Or because the darkness shall flee before him.

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6 hours ago, Corvinus said:

...I was actually expecting to see Hodor in that army. They are more than capable of pulling that knife twist.

Regarding the mountain and the arrowhead shape, I assumed that was related to Dragonstone and dragonglass. After all, a lot of the episode was related to the title itself...

I was expecting to see some familiar dead character that was north of the Wall with that slow zoom in of the White Walker army, too.  Hodor would've been an impactful choice. Now that you've mentioned it I'm going to be on the lookout for him from now on. Seems totally legit he'd show up again in their army. By the way, what are we calling the Night King's army? Army of the Dead, White Walker Army, Army of Wights? 

Like several others here, I thought the Hound was speaking of the Fist of the First Men when he mentioned the arrow head shaped mountain. Why would the Army of the Dead march towards Dragonstone, the one place that's full of things that could kill white walkers?

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Like several others here, I thought the Hound was speaking of the Fist of the First Men when he mentioned the arrow head shaped mountain. Why would the Army of the Dead march towards Dragonstone, the one place that's full of things that could kill white walkers?

I did not think that the entire vision was about where the dead were marching. I thought maybe the Lord of Light was also showing him where hope may lie to defeat the WW. But if the OP's quote is word for word, then I definitely did not hear everything well. 

Edited by Corvinus

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Okay, I get what you're saying, @Corvinus. I was wondering if you maybe had a theory why the army would march to Dragonstone.  I interpreted the vision in the flames to all be north of the wall. But it could very well have been piecemeal visions. I forget how those vision scenes with Melissandre and Stannis went. Speaking of which, I wonder when/where she's going to show up again--hook up on her ride south with the BwB perhaps?

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1 minute ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Okay, I get what you're saying, @Corvinus. I was wondering if you maybe had a theory why the army would march to Dragonstone.  I interpreted the vision in the flames to all be north of the wall. But it could very well have been piecemeal visions. I forget how those vision scenes with Melissandre and Stannis went. Speaking of which, I wonder when/where she's going to show up again--hook up on her ride south with the BwB perhaps?

I think in one of the trailers she could be spotted at Dragonstone.

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10 hours ago, Dornish Hen said:

I was a little surprised that The Hound could read the visions in the fire so clearly.  Melisandra's interpretations seem to be hit or miss in their accuracy, and she has been reading the flames for awhile now. Could it be because The Hound has already been "kissed", or baptised (so to speak) by fire?  

Really good point.

It could also because he's not trying as hard as Mel is to READ the signs. Sandor sees what he sees, and has no agenda either way to make any interpretations, where Mel is looking for specific signs from various prophecies.

As for where the arrowhead mountain is by Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. Perhaps going from this piece of artwork? 

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Franz_Miklis_eastwatch_by_the_sea.jpg

What Sandor sees is close to what Book Dany sees in the House of the Undying, only Dany sees them sailing. 

 

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5 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Okay, I get what you're saying, @Corvinus. I was wondering if you maybe had a theory why the army would march to Dragonstone.  I interpreted the vision in the flames to all be north of the wall. But it could very well have been piecemeal visions. I forget how those vision scenes with Melissandre and Stannis went. Speaking of which, I wonder when/where she's going to show up again--hook up on her ride south with the BwB perhaps?

She's going to hook up with Arya, unless she got that wrong too...

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