Petyr Targaryen

Definitive List of Plot Holes [SPOILERS]

188 posts in this topic

So with the airing of episode 701 on Sunday, thoughts of plot holes were reawakened from their yearly slumber. I wanted to create a definitive list of all the plot holes in Game of Thrones (show only). Please post any plot holes you've found and I will add them to this post (and include your name). For this list, I'm not looking for things like how Littlefinger travels from A to B so quickly, how did Arya survive getting stabbed by the Waif, characters knowing about things as if they had been tuning into Westeros Nightly News, etc. I consider this lazy storytelling, not plot holes. I'll include a few plot holes below to get started.

Note: differences between the show and books don't count as plot holes.

 

  1. Lord Commander Jeor Mormont sent Alliser Thorne to King Landing to lay the wight hand (that Ghost found in Season 1) at Joffrey's feet, but that never happened. Petyr Targaryen
  2. Melisandre removed her necklace to take a bath in Season 4, but did not transform. Petyr Targaryen
  3. Where in the world is Gendry? Petyr Targaryen
  4. The Northern Lords seem to not care whatsoever that Jon Snow deserted the Night's Watch. Petyr Targaryen
  5. Varys sends an assassin to kill Daenerys then later supports her claim. YoungGriff89
  6. Talisa Magyr was a member of a Volantene noble house killed in a Westerosi civil war with no consequences or outrage. YoungGriff89
  7. The Kingsguard that was sent to Dorne with Myrcella was AWOL when we see Myrcella again in Season 5. YoungGriff89

 

Also, discuss anything you may be unsure is actually a plot hole. For example, I've heard many people say that we never found out who the Son of the Harpy is, but that's because most people assume that the SotH is a singular person. Although that's quite possible in the book, it's more likely that in the show the SotH was just a guerrilla force that was being funded by Volantis, Astapor, and Yunkai. Feel free to correct me on this.

Edited by Petyr Targaryen

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I'm pretty sure there was a scene in Battle of the Bastards confirming that the Sons of the Harpy was a guerilla force funded by Volantis, Astapor, and Yunkai.  As far as plot holes Talisa Maeger was a member of a Volantene noble house killed in a Westerosi civil war with no consequences or outrage, at least that we ever saw.  I consider that a plot hole but it technically may not be.  There was also the kingsguard sent with Myrcella to Dorne that was gone by the time season five rolled around.  Then in the Lion and the Rose we saw Roose Bolton seemingly surprised that Ramsay flayed Theon when he implied to Walder Frey in Mhysa that he knew that's what Ramsay was doing.  

I don't know if Varys agreeing to murder Dany in season one then backing her as of season four/ five is essentially an unsolved mystery or a plot hole but that's something.  

 

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4 minutes ago, YoungGriff89 said:

I'm pretty sure there was a scene in Battle of the Bastards confirming that the Sons of the Harpy was a guerilla force funded by Volantis, Astapor, and Yunkai.  As far as plot holes Talisa Maeger was a member of a Volantene noble house killed in a Westerosi civil war with no consequences or outrage, at least that we ever saw.  I consider that a plot hole but it technically may not be.  There was also the kingsguard sent with Myrcella to Dorne that was gone by the time season five rolled around.  Then in the Lion and the Rose we saw Roose Bolton seemingly surprised that Ramsay flayed Theon when he implied to Walder Frey in Mhysa that he knew that's what Ramsay was doing.  

I don't know if Varys agreeing to murder Dany in season one then backing her as of season four/ five is essentially an unsolved mystery or a plot hole but that's something.  

 

I'm always confused why others are confused about the murder plot.  Varys had to openly support the plot in order to avoid drawing suspicion. He was, at that point, an undercover supporter of Dany's claim to the throne.  Hence his secret meeting with Illyrio in the tunnels of the Red Keep.  It's not like Varys planned the assaination or set it into motion.  He simply did not openly protest against it.  He just played along.   People would call it being "2 faced".  I myself just call it being cunning and smart...

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14 hours ago, Petyr Targaryen said:

So with the airing of episode 701 on Sunday, thoughts of plot holes were reawakened from their yearly slumber. I wanted to create a definitive list of all the plot holes in Game of Thrones (show only). Please post any plot holes you've found and I will add them to this post (and include your name). For this list, I'm not looking for things like how Littlefinger travels from A to B so quickly, how did Arya survive getting stabbed by the Waif, characters knowing about things as if they had been tuning into Westeros Nightly News, etc. I consider this lazy storytelling, not plot holes. I'll include a few plot holes below to get started.

Note: differences between the show and books don't count as plot holes.

 

  1. Lord Commander Jeor Mormont sent Alliser Thorne to King Landing to lay the wight hand (that Ghost found in Season 1) at Joffrey's feet, but that never happened. Petyr Targaryen
  2. Melisandre removed her necklace to take a bath in Season 4, but did not transform. Petyr Targaryen
  3. Where in the world is Gendry? Petyr Targaryen
  4. The Northern Lords seem to not care whatsoever that Jon Snow deserted the Night's Watch. Petyr Targaryen

 

Also, discuss anything you may be unsure is actually a plot hole. For example, I've heard many people say that we never found out who the Son of the Harpy is, but that's because most people assume that the SotH is a singular person. Although that's quite possible in the book, it's more likely that in the show the SotH was just a guerrilla force that was being funded by Volantis, Astapor, and Yunkai. Feel free to correct me on this.

You know what is a plot hole for me?  If Craster gave up all of his sons to the WW, why do we only see like 5-6 WW at a time.  You have to imagine with as many daughter-wives as Craster had, he HAD to have had more than 5-6 sons.  So where are all the other WW at?  We see thousands upon thousands of wights, but a handful of WW.  Does that count as a plot hole? 

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2 hours ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I'm always confused why others are confused about the murder plot.  Varys had to openly support the plot in order to avoid drawing suspicion. He was, at that point, an undercover supporter of Dany's claim to the throne.  Hence his secret meeting with Illyrio in the tunnels of the Red Keep.  It's not like Varys planned the assaination or set it into motion.  He simply did not openly protest against it.  He just played along.   People would call it being "2 faced".  I myself just call it being cunning and smart...

I'll explain why I'm personally still not sure about this one, but let's first define terms.  Varys "just played along" by arranging for someone to give Dany poisoned wine which would kill her and her unborn child.  Now you can argue that at the time he was actually backing Viserys's claim but didn't know Viserys was dead yet and maybe he thought killing Dany would compel Khal Drogo to invade, but the thing that stopped Dany from drinking poisoned wine Varys had no way of knowing would have happened:  Jorah's infatuation with her.  Unless my own personal theory holds true and it was Littlefinger who sent the poisoned wine (which makes more sense to me since poison is a Littlefinger trick in the show) to foil Varys and Illyrio then for all intents and purposes Varys planned and arranged an assassination of the person he is now backing.

Edited by YoungGriff89

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35 minutes ago, YoungGriff89 said:

I'll explain why I'm personally still not sure about this one, but let's first define terms.  Varys "just played along" by arranging for someone to give Dany poisoned wine which would kill her and her unborn child.  Now you can argue that at the time he was actually backing Viserys's claim but didn't know Viserys was dead yet and maybe he thought killing Dany would compel Khal Drogo to invade, but the thing that stopped Dany from drinking poisoned wine Varys had no way of knowing would have happened:  Jorah's infatuation with her.  Unless my own personal theory holds true and it was Littlefinger who sent the poisoned wine (which makes more sense to me since poison is a Littlefinger trick in the show) to foil Varys and Illyrio then for all intents and purposes Varys planned and arranged an assassination of the person he is now backing.)

Yea, I would agree with this. Jorah received a pardon from one of Varys' little birds because of the information that he supplied allowing Robert and Co. to initiate the assassination plot. Varys absolutely could not have foreseen Jorah turning his cloak at that point. And since Varys was able to get one of his birds all the way over there so quickly, it seems likely that Varys would already know that Viserys was dead; so I don't think it makes sense to say that Varys wanted to kill Daenerys in favor of Viserys. So for now I'll add this in my original post until it's disputed again.

1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

You know what is a plot hole for me?  If Craster gave up all of his sons to the WW, why do we only see like 5-6 WW at a time.  You have to imagine with as many daughter-wives as Craster had, he HAD to have had more than 5-6 sons.  So where are all the other WW at?  We see thousands upon thousands of wights, but a handful of WW.  Does that count as a plot hole? 

I wouldn't call this a plot hole. More like a budget hole. They can only have so many WW on screen at once simply out of budgetary restraints (just an educated guess).

2 hours ago, YoungGriff89 said:

As far as plot holes Talisa Maeger was a member of a Volantene noble house killed in a Westerosi civil war with no consequences or outrage, at least that we ever saw.  I consider that a plot hole but it technically may not be.  There was also the kingsguard sent with Myrcella to Dorne that was gone by the time season five rolled around.  Then in the Lion and the Rose we saw Roose Bolton seemingly surprised that Ramsay flayed Theon when he implied to Walder Frey in Mhysa that he knew that's what Ramsay was doing.  

 

I agree with the first two being plot holes. As far as the third one, I feel like when Roose said "Ramsay has his own way of doing things", I think he was really referring to the fact that Robb had offered amnesty to the Ironborn who surrendered but Ramsay didn't honor that and decided to take Winterfell and burn it down. I don't think Roose expected Ramsay to flay and de-member Theon (especially considering that at that time Roose did not consider Ramsay a Bolton and wouldn't have approved of him flaying anyone in representing House Bolton).

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44 minutes ago, YoungGriff89 said:

I'll explain why I'm personally still not sure about this one, but let's first define terms.  Varys "just played along" by arranging for someone to give Dany poisoned wine which would kill her and her unborn child.  Now you can argue that at the time he was actually backing Viserys's claim but didn't know Viserys was dead yet and maybe he thought killing Dany would compel Khal Drogo to invade, but the thing that stopped Dany from drinking poisoned wine Varys had no way of knowing would have happened:  Jorah's infatuation with her.  Unless my own personal theory holds true and it was Littlefinger who sent the poisoned wine (which makes more sense to me since poison is a Littlefinger trick in the show) to foil Varys and Illyrio then for all intents and purposes Varys planned and arranged an assassination of the person he is now backing.)

I have always been under the assumption that either LF set up the assassination attempt, or the wine dealer was acting on his own.  LF mentions to Ned that he convinced the small council to offer a lordship to whoever killed Dany, as opposed to hiring the Faceless men to do it.  It was his way of doing the "honorable" thing.  He assumed a "drunken sellsword" would botch the attempt, as opposed to a Faceless Man, who would get the job done for sure...

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5 minutes ago, Petyr Targaryen said:

You know what is a plot hole for me?  If Craster gave up all of his sons to the WW, why do we only see like 5-6 WW at a time.  You have to imagine with as many daughter-wives as Craster had, he HAD to have had more than 5-6 sons.  So where are all the other WW at?  We see thousands upon thousands of wights, but a handful of WW.  Does that count as a plot hole? 

I'm not in the business of making movies or tv shows, but wouldn't it be just as easy to make a WW as it is to make a wight?  Or giant wight for that matter.  We've recently seen 3 in one scene, but still only 5-6 WW.  Just doesn't make sense to me.  Where are all of Craster's sons?? lol

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35 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I'm not in the business of making movies or tv shows, but wouldn't it be just as easy to make a WW as it is to make a wight?  Or giant wight for that matter.  We've recently seen 3 in one scene, but still only 5-6 WW.  Just doesn't make sense to me.  Where are all of Craster's sons?? lol

If behind the scenes videos are any indication, Wights are mostly CGI with minimal costume and makeup, where as I think the white walkers (besides the Night King) are all practical costumes and make up that take a lot of time to apply. 

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47 minutes ago, Petyr Targaryen said:

Yea, I would agree with this. Jorah received a pardon from one of Varys' little birds because of the information that he supplied allowing Robert and Co. to initiate the assassination plot. Varys absolutely could not have foreseen Jorah turning his cloak at that point. And since Varys was able to get one of his birds all the way over there so quickly, it seems likely that Varys would already know that Viserys was dead; so I don't think it makes sense to say that Varys wanted to kill Daenerys in favor of Viserys. So for now I'll add this in my original post until it's disputed again.

I wouldn't call this a plot hole. More like a budget hole. They can only have so many WW on screen at once simply out of budgetary restraints (just an educated guess).

I agree with the first two being plot holes. As far as the third one, I feel like when Roose said "Ramsay has his own way of doing things", I think he was really referring to the fact that Robb had offered amnesty to the Ironborn who surrendered but Ramsay didn't honor that and decided to take Winterfell and burn it down. I don't think Roose expected Ramsay to flay and de-member Theon (especially considering that at that time Roose did not consider Ramsay a Bolton and wouldn't have approved of him flaying anyone in representing House Bolton).

I don't think he necessarily wanted to kill her in favor of Viserys, but with Viserys alive the claim to the throne isn't hers.  If you are arguing that he's just trying to restore Targaryen rule (which I'm not saying you specifically are) then Dany would be expendable at this point in time, and there may even be a positive result of her death in the dothraki coming to Westeros for revenge.  

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Why do they transform babies into ww instead of men? Why don t kidmap as much wildling babies as possible then?

What is the vale doing in winterfell? Are they on hollidays? Are they going to defend the north? Are they revolting against sweetrobin? Why would jon want to feed an army that doesn t belong to him and isn t doing anything ? I am sorry but sansa's answer that they saved them isn t useful...

I will continue later

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6 minutes ago, divica said:

Why do they transform babies into ww instead of men? Why don t kidmap as much wildling babies as possible then?

What is the vale doing in winterfell? Are they on hollidays? Are they going to defend the north? Are they revolting against sweetrobin? Why would jon want to feed an army that doesn t belong to him and isn t doing anything ? I am sorry but sansa's answer that they saved them isn t useful...

I will continue later

This has always puzzled me.  Not to mention, these can all be plot holes right?  Do the babies grow extra fast?  Or is there a Hogwart's type school of up and coming WW's in the making? lol  Why not just transform every wildling they come across that is alive to make WW vs killing them and making them wights?  The Children of the Forest had to shove dragonglass into the NK heart to make him, but he just touched a baby on the cheek and makes a WW.  if that's the case, why didn't Bran turn into a WW when the NK grabbed him?  So many mysteries...

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11 minutes ago, divica said:

What is the vale doing in winterfell?

they are doing what Littlefinger did to Ramsey, the usual trick of Baelish : "I'm your ally until Cersei call me and then you are gone", but this time, Sansa will save the day and save her "know nothing" brother again

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1 minute ago, Future Null Infinity said:

they are doing what Littlefinger did to Ramsey, the usual trick of Baelish : "I'm your ally until Cersei call me and then you are gone", but this time, Sansa will save the day and save her "know nothing" brother again

You just ignored that jon is housing a foreign enemy during winter that doesn t obey him. And we sinply aren t given a reason as to why don t they go home...

7 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

This has always puzzled me.  Not to mention, these can all be plot holes right?  Do the babies grow extra fast?  Or is there a Hogwart's type school of up and coming WW's in the making? lol  Why not just transform every wildling they come across that is alive to make WW vs killing them and making them wights?  The Children of the Forest had to shove dragonglass into the NK heart to make him, but he just touched a baby on the cheek and makes a WW.  if that's the case, why didn't Bran turn into a WW when the NK grabbed him?  So many mysteries...

More than that. We haven t seen the ww trying to increase their numbers. They had thousands of targets and were happy with only craster?

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6 minutes ago, divica said:

You just ignored that jon is housing a foreign enemy during winter that doesn t obey him. And we sinply aren t given a reason as to why don t they go home...

The plot demands Baelish and the vale army in Winterfell, Littlefinger promised Cersei to give her the north

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"Going around Moat Cailin"

Margaery has to be supervised by a septa, but Cersei's allowed to walk around alone

Sam suddenly stops caring about his vows after having sex with Gilly one time

Littlefinger apparently knows everything, unless it involves the Boltons

Jaime permits Brienne to take an entire army with her North to fight against the House his family raised to power (this obviously didn't go through, but I still found it odd)

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3 minutes ago, divica said:

You just ignored that jon is housing a foreign enemy during winter that doesn t obey him. And we sinply aren t given a reason as to why don t they go home...

Sansa answers this question on the show.  She tells Brienne that the Vale is still there because they need their men. Only reason they are still around.  I think LF is only alive until someone figures out a way to still have the support of the Vale without LF in the picture. I think that is why the show made a point of showing LF chastising Lord Royce before convincing Sweet Robyn not to kill him.  In the season 7 opener, we see Lord Royce actively participating in the Winterfell meetings of the northern lords, even though the Vale is not technically part of the North.  I think this foreshadows Lord Royce becoming a leader in the Vale after LF is killed off, which I think is inevitable.  In the books, LF and Lord Royce beef a lot more, with Royce conspiring with other lords of the Vale to remove LF from power after Lysa dies.  He initially offered to house Sweet Robyn as a squire and train him to become a knight. 

 

21 minutes ago, divica said:

More than that. We haven t seen the ww trying to increase their numbers. They had thousands of targets and were happy with only craster?

That's my point exactly.  if all the NK has to do is touch you, why not just make a crap ton of WW at Hardhomme, instead of raising wights after everybody died?  It's obvious that WW are more powerful than wights, so why not stack the deck in their favor?

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Why is the Gendry thing a plot hole? The reason we don't see him again after the rowing scene is simply because he's not important to the plot right now, so why waste time explaining where he is and what he's doing. He's somewhere, doing something, if he's even alive.

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3 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

Sansa answers this question on the show.  She tells Brienne that the Vale is still there because they need their men. Only reason they are still around.  I think LF is only alive until someone figures out a way to still have the support of the Vale without LF in the picture. I think that is why the show made a point of showing LF chastising Lord Royce before convincing Sweet Robyn not to kill him.  In the season 7 opener, we see Lord Royce actively participating in the Winterfell meetings of the northern lords, even though the Vale is not technically part of the North.  I think this foreshadows Lord Royce becoming a leader in the Vale after LF is killed off, which I think is inevitable.  In the books, LF and Lord Royce beef a lot more, with Royce conspiring with other lords of the Vale to remove LF from power after Lysa dies.  He initially offered to house Sweet Robyn as a squire and train him to become a knight. 

 

That's my point exactly.  if all the NK has to do is touch you, why not just make a crap ton of WW at Hardhomme, instead of raising wights after everybody died?  It's obvious that WW are more powerful than wights, so why not stack the deck in their favor?

All Sansa has to do is tell Royce that she wasn't kidnapped by the Boltons but was taken there by LF.  Between that and his threat to have Royce killed, LF would be counting his life in minutes.  So, the fact that Sansa thinks they need LF to keep the Vale army is a plot hole.

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6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

All Sansa has to do is tell Royce that she wasn't kidnapped by the Boltons but was taken there by LF.  Between that and his threat to have Royce killed, LF would be counting his life in minutes.  So, the fact that Sansa thinks they need LF to keep the Vale army is a plot hole.

It was established last season that Lord Robyn Arryn believes everything "Uncle Peter" tells him and we already saw last season what happened when Lord Royce accused LF of selling Sansa to the Boltons. So I am not sure why you think it would be any different this time around.  The only plot hole in this scenario is the whereabouts of Robyn Arryn. He should be at Winterfell since there was no indication whatsoever last season that he didn't accompanying his army north.  So, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he "randomly" appears in Winterell in an upcoming episode.

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