Petyr Targaryen

Definitive List of Plot Holes [SPOILERS]

188 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

It was established last season that Lord Robyn Arryn believes everything "Uncle Peter" tells him and we already saw last season what happened when Lord Royce accused LF of selling Sansa to the Boltons. So I am not sure why you think it would be any different this time around.  The only plot hole in this scenario is the whereabouts of Robyn Arryn. He should be at Winterfell since there was no indication whatsoever last season that he didn't accompanying his army north.  So, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he "randomly" appears in Winterell in an upcoming episode.

Exactly my point.  LF is only around until Sansa figures out a way to gain influence over the Knights of the Vale without LF.  I think that is why Lord Royce has stayed as relevant as he has on the show.  She is literally keeping secret the extent of LF's role in her being married off, raped and tortured by Ramsey.  Hence why Jon or Brienne hasn't lopped off LF's head. It's why LF is still around.  She's keeping LF at bay of course, giving him the cold shoulder, because she knows he is needed, but only for now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  1. What about Dreadfort? The Boltons are dead (don't know if there are cousins or so), and I've had the impression that it's the 2nd biggest fortification in the north, next to Winterfell (I might be wrong). So, after the battle of the bastards, Jon is keen on manning the castles...what about the Dreadfort?
  2. So...Arya kills the waif...and now she's free to go? The show did only show us the Waif and Jaqen as members of the HoB&W, but I'm not a least bit convinced that they're the only members. Either way, isn't Jaqen coming for her?
  3. How about the warlock assassins back in season 3, who tried to kill Dany with a 'scorpion'?
  4. The Sept of Baelor blew up. With every important person for the viewer, but Cersei there...Wouldn't there be more investigation? There should be some followers of the faith, some members of the "parliament", justice, police...Who would've have access to WildFire in the first place?
  5. In regards of the "noblewoman of volantis is killed and no one does nothing"...So...what about Euron killing a warden of one of the kingdoms (apparently even the queen knows it for a fact)? No one does anything?
  6. This one is probably explained by the lack of info we have on the WW (in fact, I think they should us a lot lot more of the WW than they should've already), but, weren't they already at the fist of the first men, between S2 and S3? Why are they going back there, and where did they go meanwhile? Are they spiraling their way south?
  7. This is in regard of the previous season, and I know I shouldn't pick on the Dorn plot by this point (or else, we'd be better off if it had its own thread), but...WHAT WAS ELLARIA DOING THERE??? WHY IS SHE IN THE COURTROOM? WHY IS SHE IN THE FAREWELL TO MYRCELLA? WHO INVITED HER?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I have always been under the assumption that either LF set up the assassination attempt, or the wine dealer was acting on his own.  LF mentions to Ned that he convinced the small council to offer a lordship to whoever killed Dany, as opposed to hiring the Faceless men to do it.  It was his way of doing the "honorable" thing.  He assumed a "drunken sellsword" would botch the attempt, as opposed to a Faceless Man, who would get the job done for sure...

I believe this is the book, not the show. Faceless men weren't mentioned at the council meeting, nor Baelish mentioned this to Ned as he did in A GoT.

While maybe it's just for the sake of the story and some of the deaths or captures are originally written in the books as well, how come Kings and also nobles are so lamely guarded in this story is beyond me. It turns out it's better to be some nobody rather than a King (Robert, Robb, Balon, Joffrey all died like they are some common peasants you can meet on the street) or a nobleman (Tyrion's capture, Roose killed by Ramsay and no one around to care, hand of the King Jon Arryn poisoned-no one around also).

This list is long I believe, this are just few examples. No wine/food testers, no guards whatsoever when it comes to noblemen/Kings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

I believe this is the book, not the show. Faceless men weren't mentioned at the council meeting, nor Baelish mentioned this to Ned as he did in A GoT.

While maybe it's just for the sake of the story and some of the deaths or captures are originally written in the books as well, how come Kings and also nobles are so lamely guarded in this story is beyond me. It turns out it's better to be some nobody rather than a King (Robert, Robb, Balon, Joffrey all died like they are some common peasants you can meet on the street) or a nobleman (Tyrion's capture, Roose killed by Ramsay and no one around to care, hand of the King Jon Arryn poisoned-no one around also).

This list is long I believe, this are just few examples. No wine/food testers, no guards whatsoever when it comes to noblemen/Kings. 

You are correct, they don't mention that on the show.  I was blending the 2 admittedly.  But I did so under the assumption that the show will not somehow reveal that the plot was any different on the show than in the books, i.e. Varys did it on one, but LF did it on the other.  The show definitely expects people to infer alot of things...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

It was established last season that Lord Robyn Arryn believes everything "Uncle Peter" tells him and we already saw last season what happened when Lord Royce accused LF of selling Sansa to the Boltons. So I am not sure why you think it would be any different this time around.  The only plot hole in this scenario is the whereabouts of Robyn Arryn. He should be at Winterfell since there was no indication whatsoever last season that he didn't accompanying his army north.  So, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he "randomly" appears in Winterell in an upcoming episode.

So what?  Robyn isn't at Winterfell, a sickly boy isn't going to be marched North for a war, that isnt a plot hole.  It doesn't matter what Robyn believes, they could tell him that LF caught a cold and died, or went crazy and wanted to kill Lord Arryn.  

The plot hole is that for unknown reasons, despite herself having seen and heard the distrust that the Lords of the Vale have had for LF in the past, thinks that she has to keep him alive to keep the Vale army, which is nonsense.  And of course, when LF finally is killed the Vale army isn't going to march home making it double nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

So what?  Robyn isn't at Winterfell, a sickly boy isn't going to be marched North for a war, that isnt a plot hole.  It doesn't matter what Robyn believes, they could tell him that LF caught a cold and died, or went crazy and wanted to kill Lord Arryn.  

The plot hole is that for unknown reasons, despite herself having seen and heard the distrust that the Lords of the Vale have had for LF in the past, thinks that she has to keep him alive to keep the Vale army, which is nonsense.  And of course, when LF finally is killed the Vale army isn't going to march home making it double nonsense.

Robyn on the show is not sickly and there was nothing to indicate that he didn't march north with his army last season. The fact that we haven't seen him at Winterfell doesn't mean he isn't there. That is the plot hole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, El Guapo said:

Robyn on the show is not sickly and there was nothing to indicate that he didn't march north with his army last season. The fact that we haven't seen him at Winterfell doesn't mean he isn't there. That is the plot hole.

He is sickly by my viewing standards, we will have to disagree that he's sickly and that he was supposed to go to WF.  He stayed in the Vale, I thought that was obvious.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have to go back and watch that scene but I am fairly certain Robyn said something like "We need to go help her", implying that he was going too.  But I could be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Petyr Targaryen said:

So with the airing of episode 701 on Sunday, thoughts of plot holes were reawakened from their yearly slumber. I wanted to create a definitive list of all the plot holes in Game of Thrones (show only). Please post any plot holes you've found and I will add them to this post (and include your name). For this list, I'm not looking for things like how Littlefinger travels from A to B so quickly, how did Arya survive getting stabbed by the Waif, characters knowing about things as if they had been tuning into Westeros Nightly News, etc. I consider this lazy storytelling, not plot holes. I'll include a few plot holes below to get started.

Note: differences between the show and books don't count as plot holes.

 

  1. Lord Commander Jeor Mormont sent Alliser Thorne to King Landing to lay the wight hand (that Ghost found in Season 1) at Joffrey's feet, but that never happened. Petyr Targaryen
  2. Melisandre removed her necklace to take a bath in Season 4, but did not transform. Petyr Targaryen
  3. Where in the world is Gendry? Petyr Targaryen
  4. The Northern Lords seem to not care whatsoever that Jon Snow deserted the Night's Watch. Petyr Targaryen
  5. Varys sends an assassin to kill Daenerys then later supports her claim. YoungGriff89
  6. Talisa Magyr was a member of a Volantene noble house killed in a Westerosi civil war with no consequences or outrage. YoungGriff89
  7. The Kingsguard that was sent to Dorne with Myrcella was AWOL when we see Myrcella again in Season 5. YoungGriff89

 

Also, discuss anything you may be unsure is actually a plot hole. For example, I've heard many people say that we never found out who the Son of the Harpy is, but that's because most people assume that the SotH is a singular person. Although that's quite possible in the book, it's more likely that in the show the SotH was just a guerrilla force that was being funded by Volantis, Astapor, and Yunkai. Feel free to correct me on this.

I'm not sure if this is a plot hole, but I think it is at this moment.

Arya tells Walder's wife to tell everyone that the North Remembers, but Jaime hasn't guessed who is behind all these things. And she also sees Arya's face, and that she had Walder's face, so they could guess that it's a Faceless woman hired by The North (Jon) or even Arya if the wife had given a proper description.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/19/2017 at 0:26 PM, Holly Macaroni said:
  1. What about Dreadfort? The Boltons are dead (don't know if there are cousins or so), and I've had the impression that it's the 2nd biggest fortification in the north, next to Winterfell (I might be wrong). So, after the battle of the bastards, Jon is keen on manning the castles...what about the Dreadfort?
  2. So...Arya kills the waif...and now she's free to go? The show did only show us the Waif and Jaqen as members of the HoB&W, but I'm not a least bit convinced that they're the only members. Either way, isn't Jaqen coming for her?
  3. How about the warlock assassins back in season 3, who tried to kill Dany with a 'scorpion'?
  4. The Sept of Baelor blew up. With every important person for the viewer, but Cersei there...Wouldn't there be more investigation? There should be some followers of the faith, some members of the "parliament", justice, police...Who would've have access to WildFire in the first place?
  5. In regards of the "noblewoman of volantis is killed and no one does nothing"...So...what about Euron killing a warden of one of the kingdoms (apparently even the queen knows it for a fact)? No one does anything?
  6. This one is probably explained by the lack of info we have on the WW (in fact, I think they should us a lot lot more of the WW than they should've already), but, weren't they already at the fist of the first men, between S2 and S3? Why are they going back there, and where did they go meanwhile? Are they spiraling their way south?
  7. This is in regard of the previous season, and I know I shouldn't pick on the Dorn plot by this point (or else, we'd be better off if it had its own thread), but...WHAT WAS ELLARIA DOING THERE??? WHY IS SHE IN THE COURTROOM? WHY IS SHE IN THE FAREWELL TO MYRCELLA? WHO INVITED HER?

Well in the case of Euron killing Balon, it fits Cersei's agenda to not care too much about that since Euron is a better ally in her eyes.  She also was behind blowing up her own kin, a religious leader/ group, and several of her own allies in the sept.  She also seemed a little too indifferent to Tommen's death.  Maybe the Volantenes don't miss Talisa, maybe she got what was coming to her in their eyes for participating in the war, but we are talking about noble houses we know virtually nothing about .  Even for the sake of world building and reinforcing continuity there was no vigil or mention at all neither time we've actually been in Volantis in the show?  I consider this a plot hole.  

EDIT:  it also would have made sense to me for the former masters to propagandize a Volantene noble woman's death at the hands of the Westerosi as a move against Dany.  Maybe not the most effective one, but a wasted opportunity. 

Edited by YoungGriff89

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, YoungGriff89 said:

Well in the case of Euron killing Balon, it fits Cersei's agenda to not care too much about that since Euron is a better ally in her eyes.  She also was behind blowing up her own kin, a religious leader/ group, and several of her own allies in the sept.  She also seemed a little too indifferent to Tommen's death.  Maybe the Volantenes don't miss Talisa, maybe she got what was coming to her in their eyes for participating in the war, but we are talking about noble houses we know virtually nothing about .  Even for the sake of world building and reinforcing continuity there was no vigil or mention at all neither time we've actually been in Volantis in the show?  I consider this a plot hole.  

Yeah, now that you mention it, I guess Yara and Theon did something about it, and have their followers, so, I can cross that one off the list.

But as for the indifference regarding Cersei blowing up all those people, it's also on my personal list, and it still bugs me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another one that just occurred to me:

IRON BANK OF BRAAVOS.

What I mean is, in a previous episode, Tywin said the Lannister's gold reserves are empty...

Also, the Iron Bank of Braavos, who funded the Iron Throne, stopped their funding...

Cersei said they were out of allies, aside from Euron...but not only his allegiance is being negotiated, but also I don't think the Iron Islands have enough riches to even help supporting the throne.

So...how does Cersei handle this? Are we ignoring a financial crisis, with all of its consequences (famine, riots, abandoning troops due to lack of funding, etc)? Are we ignoring the Iron Bank going after their money?

(probably yes, but it seems to me like it's a major plot hole) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was no motivation established for the Lords of the Vale to get involved the Battle of the Bastards.
In the scene where LF convinces Sweetrobin to send his troops north, the mission defined as to secure Sansa, who has escaped Winterfell, heading for the Wall but is not safe in the North with the Boltons after her.

So, when Sansa met up with them somewhere south of Winterfell, they should just have been: "Oh great, you made it all the way down here yourself, let's turn around go back to the Vale".

Edited by Rhollo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Holly Macaroni said:
  1. What about Dreadfort? The Boltons are dead (don't know if there are cousins or so), and I've had the impression that it's the 2nd biggest fortification in the north, next to Winterfell (I might be wrong). So, after the battle of the bastards, Jon is keen on manning the castles...what about the Dreadfort?

With the "rules" established on the show, the widow of someone in the line of succession can also inherit if no one else is left (see Olenna, Cersei and even Ellaria). So the Dreadfort should be Sansa's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, that does makes sense.

But there are still three problems:

1- possibly there can be a technically in which since the bolton's seat shifted from the dreadfort to winterfell when they married, then technically she loses the right to the dreadfort

2- even if it is sansa's, there can still be some remnants, like some cousins or friends garrisoned there.

3- even if it's hers and there's nothing in her way, obviously Sansa doesn't want to go to the dreadfort, ever. she will be at winterfell. so, with the urgency of garrisoning every stronghold, the problem still exists (and wasn't addressed in the series)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dreadfort is apparently empty, yeah. How come no one cares about such castle? Maybe everyone in the North is on their place so they don't need it. Or some Bolton loyalists hold it (if there are still any).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Alys Karstark : a girl became the head of her house
  • Lyanna Mormont : a girl became the head of her house
  • Sansa Stark : this girl can't be the head of her house, let's defy the rules in the story and make some fan service by putting the bastard in her place, it will be good for the ratings and we don't care about plot holes
Edited by Future Null Infinity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, El Guapo said:

I would have to go back and watch that scene but I am fairly certain Robyn said something like "We need to go help her", implying that he was going too.  But I could be wrong.

Whatever the dialogue was it makes no difference to D&D, we could open the next show with Sweet Robin North of the Wall.

16 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I'm not sure if this is a plot hole, but I think it is at this moment.

Arya tells Walder's wife to tell everyone that the North Remembers, but Jaime hasn't guessed who is behind all these things. And she also sees Arya's face, and that she had Walder's face, so they could guess that it's a Faceless woman hired by The North (Jon) or even Arya if the wife had given a proper description.

lol good point, I have no idea how Jaime had the info that the Freys were destroyed (the internet?) but seems to have no idea who did it.

Also funny is that they only sent a band of 7 soldiers to deal with whoever murdered the Lord of the Crossing and his whole fucking fam. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is Edmure?  Did Arya forget about him, or is he going to pop up in the hall at Riverrun?  LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2017 at 5:43 PM, Petyr Targaryen said:

So with the airing of episode 701 on Sunday, thoughts of plot holes were reawakened from their yearly slumber. I wanted to create a definitive list of all the plot holes in Game of Thrones (show only). Please post any plot holes you've found and I will add them to this post (and include your name). For this list, I'm not looking for things like how Littlefinger travels from A to B so quickly, how did Arya survive getting stabbed by the Waif, characters knowing about things as if they had been tuning into Westeros Nightly News, etc. I consider this lazy storytelling, not plot holes. I'll include a few plot holes below to get started.

Note: differences between the show and books don't count as plot holes.

 

  1. Lord Commander Jeor Mormont sent Alliser Thorne to King Landing to lay the wight hand (that Ghost found in Season 1) at Joffrey's feet, but that never happened. Petyr Targaryen
  2. Melisandre removed her necklace to take a bath in Season 4, but did not transform. Petyr Targaryen
  3. Where in the world is Gendry? Petyr Targaryen
  4. The Northern Lords seem to not care whatsoever that Jon Snow deserted the Night's Watch. Petyr Targaryen
  5. Varys sends an assassin to kill Daenerys then later supports her claim. YoungGriff89
  6. Talisa Magyr was a member of a Volantene noble house killed in a Westerosi civil war with no consequences or outrage. YoungGriff89
  7. The Kingsguard that was sent to Dorne with Myrcella was AWOL when we see Myrcella again in Season 5. YoungGriff89

 

Also, discuss anything you may be unsure is actually a plot hole. For example, I've heard many people say that we never found out who the Son of the Harpy is, but that's because most people assume that the SotH is a singular person. Although that's quite possible in the book, it's more likely that in the show the SotH was just a guerrilla force that was being funded by Volantis, Astapor, and Yunkai. Feel free to correct me on this.

200 men commanded by Rodrik Cassel disappeared back in Season 2. In CoK, this force was killed by Ramsay Snow. Here, the force is evaded by the Ironborn led by Theon and only Rodrik is captured, with no word as to the rest.

 

Edited by Angel Eyes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now