Petyr Targaryen

Definitive List of Plot Holes [SPOILERS]

188 posts in this topic

  • Wildlings : We attack the Wall in thousands to escape from the threat of the White Walkers because we fear for our lives
  • Jon : We need you to defend Eastwatch by the Sea against the White Walkers
  • Wildlings : Sure thing man, let's not wait for the dragonglass weapons
Edited by Future Null Infinity

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"Jon Snow avenged the Red Wedding!"

Tyrion killed Tywin, Ramsay killed Roose, Arya killed Walder, the army Jon was leading was beaten until the knights of the Vale intervened on Sansa's behalf.  He literally had almost nothing to do with any of it.

Edited by YoungGriff89

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Edmure Tully's whereabouts.

S6 at the siege of RR, Jaime says to Edmure that he'llsend him to Casterly Rock, with his child. Then in the S5 finale, Waldery Frey claims he's back in the Twin dungeons, and then in S7 it's as if he doesn't exist anymore: Arya doesn't get him out and Jaime doesn't worry about him either.

S6 Blackwoods, and Mallister are also said to be rebelling and BwB too. The siege of RR deals with the Blackfish, not the other rebels. And they hold a party at the Twins for the victoy of getting RR back. What about Blackwood and Mallister?

And while I know "fast traveling" is not something you reckon as a plot hole, I do consider the S6 opener in relation to the S5 finale a plot hole: Myrcella dies in Jaime's arms just as they sail away from Dorne. Instead of turning around, he sails all the way to KL to report the news to Cersei, and nobody ever saw the Sand Snakes following the ship to KL, where they wait to kill Trystane there. He was after all painting the eyestones for Myrcella's funeral.

Sam forgetting to tell Jon about dragonglass on Dragonstone or not believing Stannis.

Going around Moat Cailin, after the hullabaloo they made of the Ironborn taking it and Robb needing to make peace with the Freys in order to get an army to take Moat Cailin back from the Ironborn of he can't go North. Roose faces the same issue, which is why Ramsay has Theon betray the Ironborn there. Both Roose and Ramsay are aware Cersei might send an army North, because Ramsay's marrying Sansa accused of King Joffrey, but somehow Ramsay is not aware of LF having taken it with a Vale army for weeks.

Hardhome: the survivors escape on launches and ships (having come from Eastwatch), yet travel north of the Wall to CB, so that they have to ask Thorn to open the gate for them. It's not as if they could row ashore with the army of the dead there. Where are Stannis's ships?

Why stop Pycelle from going to the Sept and kill him separately, when the sept's gonna blow anyway.

Mace went to Braavos to deal with the IB. Do we ever learn how that went, apart from Arya killing Trant.

Why did nobody take Dragosntone when it was abandoned the past 2 years when it can block Blackwater Bay.

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I have a few inquiries-- not sure if they are plot holes though. Most of my big questions were already asked in previous posts. 

1) In Braavos, how was Arya able to hide Needle without Jaqen's knowledge? He knows everything else! Did he know all along? Still unclear. 

2) When Arya gets to Braavos, the captain rows her over to the HofBW- implying it's only accessible by boat?  After that,  she comes and goes. I suppose he was taking her directly from the ship, but the whole thing seems incongruous. 

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I suppose the assassination attempt from Varys isn't a plot hole, just bad writing. 

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On 7/19/2017 at 8:28 AM, YoungGriff89 said:

I'm pretty sure there was a scene in Battle of the Bastards confirming that the Sons of the Harpy was a guerilla force funded by Volantis, Astapor, and Yunkai.  As far as plot holes Talisa Maeger was a member of a Volantene noble house killed in a Westerosi civil war with no consequences or outrage, at least that we ever saw.  I consider that a plot hole but it technically may not be.  There was also the kingsguard sent with Myrcella to Dorne that was gone by the time season five rolled around.  Then in the Lion and the Rose we saw Roose Bolton seemingly surprised that Ramsay flayed Theon when he implied to Walder Frey in Mhysa that he knew that's what Ramsay was doing.  

I don't know if Varys agreeing to murder Dany in season one then backing her as of season four/ five is essentially an unsolved mystery or a plot hole but that's something.  

 

Good pt on the king's guard with Myrcella

I dont think Roose is surprised, just disapproving in that scene. Either way, he seems more surprised as Ramsey's excessive use of torture and addiction to psychological torture. Roose has a minor occasional tendency to fuck with ppl, I think he more enjoys the triumph of his nefarious plots, rape and a little torture on the side. Ramsey is excessive and does so even when it's not prudent. 

Edited by Raeslewolhn

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On 7/19/2017 at 8:39 AM, Jaehaerys Stark said:

You know what is a plot hole for me?  If Craster gave up all of his sons to the WW, why do we only see like 5-6 WW at a time.  You have to imagine with as many daughter-wives as Craster had, he HAD to have had more than 5-6 sons.  So where are all the other WW at?  We see thousands upon thousands of wights, but a handful of WW.  Does that count as a plot hole? 

I think we'll see more WW later. Also, how long does it take a baby WW to grow up? Plus, seems like Ceaster had a lot more daughters and wasnt always impregnating them, only occasionally. Sometimes he had to offer a goat (or is that books only)

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On 7/19/2017 at 10:52 AM, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I'm not in the business of making movies or tv shows, but wouldn't it be just as easy to make a WW as it is to make a wight?  Or giant wight for that matter.  We've recently seen 3 in one scene, but still only 5-6 WW.  Just doesn't make sense to me.  Where are all of Craster's sons?? lol

Def not. Wights get a little dead face touch up SOMETIMES, but that effect us streamlined and in wide use in the industry. Mostly they are costumed ppl walking funny. Only Hardhome had major wight CGI needs. The WW are 100% CGI (their skin, hair, eyes especially need work)

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On 7/23/2017 at 8:30 PM, Raeslewolhn said:

Def not. Wights get a little dead face touch up SOMETIMES, but that effect us streamlined and in wide use in the industry. Mostly they are costumed ppl walking funny. Only Hardhome had major wight CGI needs. The WW are 100% CGI (their skin, hair, eyes especially need work)

The white walkers are generally not CGI.  Look up some of the behind the scenes stuff on YouTube.  I think the night king at hard home was CGI but other than that they've been guys in suits.  They're definitely finished with CGI where things like the glowing eyes are concerned.  

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I dismissed this one, because, as far as we knew, Cersei could've kept it a secret, but Hot Pie confirmed that it is common knowledge that Cersei blew up the sept.

We've had two seasons of the High Sparrow telling us how his death would be irrelevant, since the faith has hive mentality, and they are in large numbers. Also, the faith held administrative and legislative power over the crown in some aspects. Suddenly, Cersei blows up the Sept, with lots of important people in it (but certainly not everyone of the faith)...and they crown her, afterwards? No uprising? No reaction from the faith? No mass deserting? No....anything?

They even have this scene in s07e02 where she talks to some lords and argues that the Mad King COULD'VE USED wilfire, and they are dismissive of stuff such as the red wedding...but this seems to be hand waved.

This one is the biggest one for, me. In fact, I'd rate this as potentially the greatest plot hole in TV history, because of all the build up to a lazy cop out of an outcome.

Edited by Holly Macaroni

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On 7/20/2017 at 9:44 AM, Angel Eyes said:

200 men commanded by Rodrik Cassel disappeared back in Season 2. In CoK, this force was killed by Ramsay Snow. Here, the force is evaded by the Ironborn led by Theon and only Rodrik is captured, with no word as to the rest.

 

Speaking of missing armies, are Stannis' 10,000 mercenaries still wandering the north on horseback?

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On 20/07/2017 at 10:39 AM, Rhollo said:

With the "rules" established on the show, the widow of someone in the line of succession can also inherit if no one else is left (see Olenna, Cersei and even Ellaria). So the Dreadfort should be Sansa's.

Has Olenna inherited anything? Cersei and Ellaria don't play by any rule except "It's OK if I can get away with it". The same seems to generally apply everywhere, with varying degrees of "propriety". A strong daughter of the previous lord might be able to succeed, but a strong male cousin would have a good chance against a relatively meek daughter. Like Varys says, power resides where people think it does. Sansa can't just waltz up and say "Them's the rules" unless enough people care about following the rules.

On 21/07/2017 at 8:13 AM, Reisendame said:

I have a few inquiries-- not sure if they are plot holes though. Most of my big questions were already asked in previous posts. 

1) In Braavos, how was Arya able to hide Needle without Jaqen's knowledge? He knows everything else! Did he know all along? Still unclear. 

2) When Arya gets to Braavos, the captain rows her over to the HofBW- implying it's only accessible by boat?  After that,  she comes and goes. I suppose he was taking her directly from the ship, but the whole thing seems incongruous. 

I assumed Jaqen knew all along. I don't think he ever believed she was, or would be, "no one". I have no idea why he wasted his time if that was the case, but then I don't know why she helped him at Harrenhal either. All that stuff about lives being owed doesn't even make sense. Who's to say when someone is "supposed" to be dead? It seems like that was all a flimsy excuse to help her out.

I also assumed travelling around Braavos means using a boat half the time, and that it just wasn't necessary to show her doing that every time she came and went.

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On 7/25/2017 at 6:55 AM, Holly Macaroni said:

I dismissed this one, because, as far as we knew, Cersei could've kept it a secret, but Hot Pie confirmed that it is common knowledge that Cersei blew up the sept.

We've had two seasons of the High Sparrow telling us how his death would be irrelevant, since the faith has hive mentality, and they are in large numbers. Also, the faith held administrative and legislative power over the crown in some aspects. Suddenly, Cersei blows up the Sept, with lots of important people in it (but certainly not everyone of the faith)...and they crown her, afterwards? No uprising? No reaction from the faith? No mass deserting? No....anything?

They even have this scene in s07e02 where she talks to some lords and argues that the Mad King COULD'VE USED wilfire, and they are dismissive of stuff such as the red wedding...but this seems to be hand waved.

This one is the biggest one for, me. In fact, I'd rate this as potentially the greatest plot hole in TV history, because of all the build up to a lazy cop out of an outcome.

Except that Cercei didn't have nothing to do with the Red Wedding, but then again, also Daenerys is not the Mad King. I agree with the rest of your post though. What does a man like Randyll Tarly doing with the likes of Cercei? He clearly knows who she is, and what we know of him is that he is Tyrell's LOYAL vassal. They'd do anything just to keep Cercei on the show.  

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5 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Except that Cercei didn't have nothing to do with the Red Wedding, but then again, also Daenerys is not the Mad King. I agree with the rest of your post though. What does a man like Randyll Tarly doing with the likes of Cercei? He clearly knows who she is, and what we know of him is that he is Tyrell's LOYAL vassal. They'd do anything just to keep Cercei on the show.  

Randyll is the one who brings up the red wedding, while they are discussing whether he should fight for the Lannisters of for the Tyrells. And the reason he does it is because the lannisters did orchestrate the red wedding, and he despises such acts. Which is a valid reason for dismissing the Lannisters. Maybe not a valid reason for dismissing Cersei in particular. No, he has another reason for dismissing Cersei in particular. A HUMUNGOUSLY HUGE different reason for dismissing cersei in particular. (you get where i'm going)

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5 hours ago, Holly Macaroni said:

Randyll is the one who brings up the red wedding, while they are discussing whether he should fight for the Lannisters of for the Tyrells. And the reason he does it is because the lannisters did orchestrate the red wedding, and he despises such acts. Which is a valid reason for dismissing the Lannisters. Maybe not a valid reason for dismissing Cersei in particular. No, he has another reason for dismissing Cersei in particular. A HUMUNGOUSLY HUGE different reason for dismissing cersei in particular. (you get where i'm going)

Yes you're right, exactly him is bringing it up, though is not Cersei's doing, she approves the act and didn't have nothing to say against it afterwards.

I liked how Tarly points out to Jaime what the regime the latter supports has done, a shame the former will probably accept the offer because power is up for grabs after Cercei wiped out the Tyrells.

Edited by The Sunland Lord

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On 2017-7-19 at 5:20 PM, divica said:

 

More than that. We haven t seen the ww trying to increase their numbers. They had thousands of targets and were happy with only craster?

Dont think it's been mentioned in the show but the books hint at the reason behind this. I doubt the show will reveal it so dont think I'm spoiling a reveal. 

The Wights need to have Stark blood. It is strongly hinted that Craster is a long lost Stark descendant. His babies not only have Stark blood but have been inbred a few generations so the strongest Stark blood around really. That is also why Benjen was almost turned into a Wight & how the CotF saved him. He's not going to have been killed straight away but taken to the Nights King for transformation. 

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Ep1 S6: Brienne + Pod rescue Sansa and Theon.

There are 6 Bolton men, 4 riders and 2 footmen holding 2 big noisy threatening dogs.

Fight begins and PSSHH the dogs vanish…

I suppose they go through a tear of the spatio-temporal continuum:blink:

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5 hours ago, RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon said:

Dont think it's been mentioned in the show but the books hint at the reason behind this. I doubt the show will reveal it so dont think I'm spoiling a reveal. 

The Wights need to have Stark blood. It is strongly hinted that Craster is a long lost Stark descendant. His babies not only have Stark blood but have been inbred a few generations so the strongest Stark blood around really. That is also why Benjen was almost turned into a Wight & how the CotF saved him. He's not going to have been killed straight away but taken to the Nights King for transformation. 

I don t remember the books implying craster had stark blood. Are you sure?

Besides that doesn t make much sense in book canon. How many ww would there be before craster started giving his sons? How many ww could there be in the first long night? Very few...

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On 20/07/2017 at 2:09 AM, Jaehaerys Stark said:

This has always puzzled me.  Not to mention, these can all be plot holes right?  Do the babies grow extra fast?  Or is there a Hogwart's type school of up and coming WW's in the making? lol  Why not just transform every wildling they come across that is alive to make WW vs killing them and making them wights?  The Children of the Forest had to shove dragonglass into the NK heart to make him, but he just touched a baby on the cheek and makes a WW.  if that's the case, why didn't Bran turn into a WW when the NK grabbed him?  So many mysteries...

Also, the adult White Walkers we see look a lot older than Craster.

I figure the NIght King transformed the baby to stop it crying.

Maybe also, to stop it from getting hungry and cold, and needing it's nappy changed. The White Walkers don't seem to have any food or shelter, even for themselves. There are no female white walkers that could maybe breastfeed the soon-to-be white-crawlers, and all their pets are wights, so no ice-spider milk or anything like that. And we would expect Craster to have been offering up sons since before Gilly was born, all through the long summer, and the winter before it, and probably the winter before that, too. And Lord Jeor knew all about it, but did nothing? Afraid that if he said anything, he and his black brothers would have to stay up all the long night, soothing Crasters sons back to sleep? I guess that being a white walker means that they are perpetually wakeful too, and not tired in spite of extreme lack of sleep (possibly why the White Walkers all look so haggard so young). 

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