Philokles Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 There is a certain irony that in the same week House of Cards is cancelled, Spoiler an offshoot of the same scandal gives Williamson the opportunity to make his own version of its first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 The Sun reveals all.... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4831049/sir-michael-fallon-inappropriate-comments-andrea-leadsom/ In other news, Labour have suspended Kelvin Hopkins MP from the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Horse of Kent said: There is a certain irony that in the same week House of Cards is cancelled, Hide contents an offshoot of the same scandal gives Williamson the opportunity to make his own version of its first season. Given that the House of Cards author is a former senior Tory the similarity between fiction and reality probably isn't too surprising. 19 minutes ago, Slick Mongoose said: The Sun reveals all.... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4831049/sir-michael-fallon-inappropriate-comments-andrea-leadsom/ I think that definitely solves any mystery about the resignation. I think it's also likely that if he's behaving that way to his fellow MPs there's probably a lot of others who have a bad experience with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 9 hours ago, williamjm said: Given that the House of Cards author is a former senior Tory the similarity between fiction and reality probably isn't too surprising. I think that definitely solves any mystery about the resignation. I think it's also likely that if he's behaving that way to his fellow MPs there's probably a lot of others who have a bad experience with him. I'm sure the problem is that he is repeatedly using inappropriate language and being offensive to people rather than a one off comment. The articles are making it sound as if Leadsom is out to get him or is getting revenge or something, which I'm sure, and hope isn't the case.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41853430 The Kelvin Hopkins case however doesn't appear to be on the same level at all. The claim is that the hugged someone too closely and made a slightly inappropriate comment in a text. From what I've seen he seems to have been making a romantic overture towards the woman, and not in a crude manner, he called her lovely, asked if she had a boyfriend etc. I'm sure she wasn't interested and while its probably not entirely appropriate I think its not helpful to destroy peoples careers over moments like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Eggegg said: I'm sure the problem is that he is repeatedly using inappropriate language and being offensive to people rather than a one off comment. The articles are making it sound as if Leadsom is out to get him or is getting revenge or something, which I'm sure, and hope isn't the case.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41853430 The Kelvin Hopkins case however doesn't appear to be on the same level at all. The claim is that the hugged someone too closely and made a slightly inappropriate comment in a text. From what I've seen he seems to have been making a romantic overture towards the woman, and not in a crude manner, he called her lovely, asked if she had a boyfriend etc. I'm sure she wasn't interested and while its probably not entirely appropriate I think its not helpful to destroy peoples careers over moments like this. She claims that Kelvin Hopkins rubbed his crotch against her. I've met Kelvin Hopkins a few times, and know people who know him well, and would say that that is entirely out of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 12 hours ago, williamjm said: Given that the House of Cards author is a former senior Tory the similarity between fiction and reality probably isn't too surprising. Francis Urqhart would send the dypsos and drug addicts in the Conservative Party to a very discreet drying out clinic in Kent. He said he would tolerate a good deal, but drew the line at incest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 4 hours ago, SeanF said: She claims that Kelvin Hopkins rubbed his crotch against her. I've met Kelvin Hopkins a few times, and know people who know him well, and would say that that is entirely out of character. You hear that from the friends of most people who get accused of sexual assault, though, and it seems to have no correlation with whether or not they're actually guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Maltaran said: You hear that from the friends of most people who get accused of sexual assault, though, and it seems to have no correlation with whether or not they're actually guilty. Yeah, not just sexual assualts, every criminal since the dawn of time has had people coming out and saying 'no way, not xyz'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41866970 Another MP suspended after “serious allegations” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Re: Kelvin Hopkins - let's be clear. At best, we are talking about a married MP in his 70s making uninvited and unwelcome romantic overtures to a student in her early 20s during encounters that were supposed to be professional in nature. The text is also rather more than 'slightly' inappropriate. It's completely unacceptable. Just to recap: Quote He admitted sending a message that said "a nice young man would be lucky to have you as a girlfriend and lover... Were I to be young... but I am not...". To a girl 50 years younger than he is, in a considerably less powerful position within his party, who had shown no interest in him at all. I cannot even imagine circumstances in which that should not be considered very serious misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 57 minutes ago, mormont said: Re: Kelvin Hopkins - let's be clear. At best, we are talking about a married MP in his 70s making uninvited and unwelcome romantic overtures to a student in her early 20s during encounters that were supposed to be professional in nature. The text is also rather more than 'slightly' inappropriate. It's completely unacceptable. Just to recap: To a girl 50 years younger than he is, in a considerably less powerful position within his party, who had shown no interest in him at all. I cannot even imagine circumstances in which that should not be considered very serious misconduct. Firstly unless we are living in the 50’s and extra marital affairs are a sackable offence I’m not sure that he is married is very relevant. That he is old and should have realised his own repulsiveness to a young woman is also not a crime, I’m sure some woman has found him attractive at some point in his life, whether we like it or not, power can be an aphrodisiac He made an advance on a woman, which reads more like a compliment than anything else in fact, and didn’t seem to be expecting anything out of it. The issue is maybe he was in a higher level of power than her, but at the same time he doesn’t seem to have been her direct boss. id call it I’ll advised and misjudged from him , I pity him a bit. But this is not on the same planet as many of the other cases that have come out. The more minor indescetions like this come out the more this will look like a witchhunt and the more your average person will switch off from it , and lose their sense of outrage. You can already see in the right wing press a sense of backlash and things like this are fuelling it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A wilding Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Arrgh, wrong thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Eggegg said: The more minor indescetions like this come out the more this will look like a witchhunt According to Twitter rumours as many as 7 cabinet ministers are "considering their positions" and the cries of witch hunt are an attempt at deflection. The MPs who are saying that do all seem to be old men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 12 hours ago, Eggegg said: Firstly You don't understand the first thing about sexual harassment. Before 'firstly', please go and learn something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 It's a remarkable situation, and well past time that this BS was exposed. It's interesting how other factors are coming into question: the BBC was asking some MPs if having a bar in the workplace is a good idea and maybe it should be shut down to prevent alcohol being a factor (plus saving the taxpayer a bit more money). There's certainly plenty of bars within a few seconds walk of the Houses of Parliament (and even more very close to the various ministries) so it's not like they can't go off to the pub if they really want to, but it may be helpful if they can't do it in the same building. Needless to say, this didn't seem to go down too well with the older MPs. Seven cabinet ministers resigning would be insane. At some point could this trigger a collapse of the government? All the parties are affected (and Corbyn has been tainted a bit by promoting someone after a complaint was made against them), but if you suddenly have more than a few MPs being investigated by the police, then deselections, by-elections and other options will start coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 11 hours ago, mormont said: You don't understand the first thing about sexual harassment. Before 'firstly', please go and learn something. 10 hours ago, Werthead said: It's a remarkable situation, and well past time that this BS was exposed. It's interesting how other factors are coming into question: the BBC was asking some MPs if having a bar in the workplace is a good idea and maybe it should be shut down to prevent alcohol being a factor (plus saving the taxpayer a bit more money). There's certainly plenty of bars within a few seconds walk of the Houses of Parliament (and even more very close to the various ministries) so it's not like they can't go off to the pub if they really want to, but it may be helpful if they can't do it in the same building. Needless to say, this didn't seem to go down too well with the older MPs. Seven cabinet ministers resigning would be insane. At some point could this trigger a collapse of the government? All the parties are affected (and Corbyn has been tainted a bit by promoting someone after a complaint was made against them), but if you suddenly have more than a few MPs being investigated by the police, then deselections, by-elections and other options will start coming up. They probably should shut down the bar if only to give off a bit more of an impression that they are doing some work! its getting to the point where the government could collapse. But then I’d suggest a lot of people would like that to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Jeremy Corbyn doesn't get it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41878689 Quote Asked on Sunday whether it was appropriate to promote Mr Hopkins, Mr Corbyn said he could not "discuss hindsight" but he stood by his decision at the time. "He had been reprimanded, the case had been closed... I thought it was reasonable to appoint him, albeit for a very short time, to shadow cabinet... All I can say is I took a decision based on what I knew at the time and he made a good contribution to the shadow cabinet during the short time he was there." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 New York Times article on WTF is going on with Britain. I share their confusion and bewilderment. The Paradise Papers leak is going to trigger several massive scandals for the establishment. This is extraordinary stuff. The Queen's funds have been invested in some seriously dodgy companies, most notably Brighthouse (a predatory business that brutally exploits the poor, mentally ill and indebted). Her money is also being invested in offshore tax havens in the Cayman Islands. Brilliant. Lord Ashcroft has been implicated up to his neck and, as a nice add-on, Trump's treasury spokesman has been exposed as having been in bed with the Russians. I best that's gong straight into Mueller's to-do pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 17 minutes ago, Werthead said: New York Times article on WTF is going on with Britain. I share their confusion and bewilderment. The Paradise Papers leak is going to trigger several massive scandals for the establishment. This is extraordinary stuff. The Queen's funds have been invested in some seriously dodgy companies, most notably Brighthouse (a predatory business that brutally exploits the poor, mentally ill and indebted). Her money is also being invested in offshore tax havens in the Cayman Islands. Brilliant. Lord Ashcroft has been implicated up to his neck and, as a nice add-on, Trump's treasury spokesman has been exposed as having been in bed with the Russians. I best that's gong straight into Mueller's to-do pile. Yeah the chaos surrounding British politics right now is terrifying. At the one point we probably needed strong and defined leadership we got the opposite. Having said that we’ve had some strong governments in the past with equally dismal results! That article seems mostly fair but I do think like most liberal left media it tends to misrepresent the average Brexit voter , and can not recognise the failures of the EU. That we were all so bewildered when the Brexit vote happened shows how out of touch many of us are from most peoples lives. I don’t think purely blaming the right wing press is helpful either, as insidious as they are. The panama papers is so revealing, I love it! But I also feel like the last round of leaks changed nothing and actually caused little uproar. The Guardian ran it as major news for weeks, but I saw little discussion of it outside of that. Maybe the general sense of uninterest is the resignation that the rich will always hide their money and cheat the system and there is nothing to be done. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 On 11/3/2017 at 7:52 PM, BigFatCoward said: Yeah, not just sexual assualts, every criminal since the dawn of time has had people coming out and saying 'no way, not xyz'. On 11/3/2017 at 7:52 PM, BigFatCoward said: Yeah, not just sexual assualts, every criminal since the dawn of time has had people coming out and saying 'no way, not xyz'. Sadly true. I had a friend who was convicted of downloading child porn, and I would never have expected it of him. On 11/4/2017 at 11:40 AM, Eggegg said: Firstly unless we are living in the 50’s and extra marital affairs are a sackable offence I’m not sure that he is married is very relevant. That he is old and should have realised his own repulsiveness to a young woman is also not a crime, I’m sure some woman has found him attractive at some point in his life, whether we like it or not, power can be an aphrodisiac He made an advance on a woman, which reads more like a compliment than anything else in fact, and didn’t seem to be expecting anything out of it. The issue is maybe he was in a higher level of power than her, but at the same time he doesn’t seem to have been her direct boss. id call it I’ll advised and misjudged from him , I pity him a bit. But this is not on the same planet as many of the other cases that have come out. The more minor indescetions like this come out the more this will look like a witchhunt and the more your average person will switch off from it , and lose their sense of outrage. You can already see in the right wing press a sense of backlash and things like this are fuelling it The serious part is the allegation that he rubbed his crotch against her, which, if true, is a sexual assault. WRT minor indiscretions, "MP accused of having porn on his computer 9 years ago" is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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