Universal Sword Donor Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Why is Robert going to surrender? Aerys wants him dead. If the option is keep fighting and Stannis dies or stop fighting and we both die, that's not really a debate from where I am sitting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Why is Robert going to surrender? Aerys wants him dead. If the option is keep fighting and Stannis dies or stop fighting and we both die, that's not really a debate from where I am sitting Because he can´t win at that point. Unless he can rush Kings Landing and kill both Rhaegar and Aerys, wich obviously wouldn´t happen in this timeline. He can´t beat the royal troops, the dornish AND the reach with Tywin waiting to pounce on him, seeing that he is weak. He lost his home, his family, his money and any kind of administration or reinforcements. Perhaps Robert ist not as selfish as you are, as to let thousands pointlessly die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: Because he can´t win at that point. Unless he can rush Kings Landing and kill both Rhaegar and Aerys, wich obviously wouldn´t happen in this timeline. He can´t beat the royal troops, the dornish AND the reach with Tywin waiting to pounce on him, seeing that he is weak. He lost his home, his family, his money and any kind of administration or reinforcements. Perhaps Robert ist not as selfish as you are, as to let thousands pointlessly die. So I guess he runs? You still have three other armies who actually put way more men in the field. Why would he give up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 You act like he would just lose Storms End and nothing would happen around him, his coalition would start to fracture immediately. People would start looking for Pardons, the Northerners would start to become unruly and Jon Arryn would question the point of all this. He would lose all momentum, this event would change everything. Fighting would be pointless and everyone would know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 32 minutes ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: You act like he would just lose Storms End and nothing would happen around him, his coalition would start to fracture immediately. People would start looking for Pardons, the Northerners would start to become unruly and Jon Arryn would question the point of all this. He would lose all momentum, this event would change everything. Fighting would be pointless and everyone would know it. Not really. Ned and the northerners are fighting for Ned's life and Hoster and Arryn's heads are gonna be on a pike too if they surrender. Aerys is literally insane. And once again, there really weren't many SL in the rebel army, especially not at the Trident. GRRM himself had said it would be a huge loss to prestige and loyalty, but it ignores the number of people actually with Robert: All important chips. Also the fall of Storm's End might have convinced many of the storm lords supporting him that the time had come to bend the knee. So the castle was hardly unimportant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Not really. Ned and the northerners are fighting for Ned's life and Hoster and Arryn's heads are gonna be on a pike too if they surrender. Aerys is literally insane. And once again, there really weren't many SL in the rebel army, especially not at the Trident. GRRM himself had said it would be a huge loss to prestige and loyalty, but it ignores the number of people actually with Robert: All important chips. Also the fall of Storm's End might have convinced many of the storm lords supporting him that the time had come to bend the knee. So the castle was hardly unimportant. You´re being delusional. They would negotiate as long as their own life is not at risk. It´s not all about the leaders, all these other thousands of people are individuals too, they don´t want to die for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: You´re being delusional. They would negotiate as long as their own life is not at risk. It´s not all about the leaders, all these other thousands of people are individuals too, they don´t want to die for anyone. Their lives are quite literally at risk. Ned and Robert were to be executed for literally no reason. Now they've committed treason and rebelled along with Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully? Come on. How do you think it plays out for them when Aerys makes his "final decision." I'm hearing "Burn baby burn" on repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Their lives are quite literally at risk. Ned and Robert were to be executed for literally no reason. Now they've committed treason and rebelled along with Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully? Come on. How do you think it plays out for them when Aerys makes his "final decision." I'm hearing "Burn baby burn" on repeat It´s logistically impossible to do that with every single rebel. There´s going to be peace deals like in any other war, what happens after that is a another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: It´s logistically impossible to do that with every single rebel. There´s going to be peace deals like in any other war, what happens after that is a another story. I never said all the rebels. I keep talking about the leaders for a reason. Aerys would care little and less about the infantry and archers and free riders. He would come down hard on the leaders (aka kill) and the leading nobles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said: I never said all the rebels. I keep talking about the leaders for a reason. Aerys would care little and less about the infantry and archers and free riders. He would come down hard on the leaders (aka kill) and the leading nobles. You´re saying he would siege every single enemy castle? Because that´s exactly what I mean with logistically impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: You´re saying he would siege every single enemy castle? Because that´s exactly what I mean with logistically impossible. You're fabricating words out of thin air. I honestly don't even know where you're going with this. All I said was the rebels have damn good reason to keep fighting even if SE is lost, because they will be facing punishment levied by an insane pyromaniac. Can we at least agree that Aerys is erratic and would likely kill the leaders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: You´re saying he would siege every single enemy castle? Because that´s exactly what I mean with logistically impossible. Aerys wasn't known as the Reasonable and Sensible King though, was he? Let's face it, his decision to burn Rickard and order Robert and Ned's deaths is completely batshit, so I'm not sure why he'd be more sensible after the Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, WSmith84 said: Aerys wasn't known as the Reasonable and Sensible King though, was he? Let's face it, his decision to burn Rickard and order Robert and Ned's deaths is completely batshit, so I'm not sure why he'd be more sensible after the Rebellion. Yeah that's what puzzles me. The Darklyns and Hollards surrendered. How'd that turn out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Yeah that's what puzzles me. The Darklyns and Hollards surrendered. How'd that turn out? Not well, putting it mildly. But Ned and Robert must be punished for rebelling with at least a death sentence: any less would mean Aerys (or any king in his position) was saying that Ned and Robert had some justification for rebelling - if not, why the lenient sentence? The punishment for rebelling has to be at least the same as the original punishment that they rebelled against. Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully would also likely be for the chop - both, particularly Hoster, would be lucky if their families kept their respective lands and titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Well of course he would kill everyone if he got their hands on them, but that´s not how reality works. If he does give the order to actually burn down the realm we´re talking about a whole new situation, where Aerys would literally lose all support. If Aerys gives someone a reasonable offer they will accept it and hide in their castle. Aerys won´t stop being batshit crazy but it would end Roberts Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: Well of course he would kill everyone if he got their hands on them, but that´s not how reality works. If he does give the order to actually burn down the realm we´re talking about a whole new situation, where Aerys would literally lose all support. If Aerys gives someone a reasonable offer they will accept it and hide in their castle. Aerys won´t stop being batshit crazy but it would end Roberts Rebellion. Right so they would keep fighting? Aerys is not going to give them a reasonable offer. He is insane. That's the whole crux of the matter. If it were Jaehaerys or Aegon V, you'd be 100% on point. But it ain't them on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Well, I guess they would. And Aerys would fail. But I honestly, don´t believe it would come this far, other players would still be playing, this process would take at least several months and Rhaegar would take over before his court would let him go through with this. But seriously, that´s guessing beyond of what this question is about. If Mace takes Storms End, Robert loses. How they´ll get rid of the mad king is a different story and not necessarily connected to Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 They join Rhaegar and defeat the rebels, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 13 hours ago, John Doe said: They join Rhaegar and defeat the rebels, probably. What about the smaller chance they don't? Does Aerys burn everything? Is Bloodraven fire proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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