princess_snow

Jon and Sansa question. *No spoilers please*

31 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I hope Ive posted in the right sub here.

 

Someone I know who is only a show watcher asked me if I was getting the impression things were being set up for Jon and Sansa to end up together.

I have not thought this myself. I know originally GRRM was intending for Arya and Jon to but I believe that idea got scrapped.  

Just wondered if anyone else has felt this or picked up on something I have not ?

 

edit: formatting  

:cheers:

Edited by princess_snow

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I think this is nonsense. The show has been establishing their relationship since the last season as a purely sibling one, including the protection/underestimation inclinations that Jon has about Sansa. The only other thing that seems mildly possible is open enmity, but definitely not anything romantic.

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I hope and think not. Neither Jon, nor Sansa seem to have romantic feelings for the other one. I suppose that the only way they could end up married is that when it is publicly known that Jon isn't Ned's son, he would marry Sansa to keep power. But are so many flaws to this speculation - Jon isn't the leader of North because he is the heir, he was elected, and now when Bran made it back to civilisation, Sansa isn't even the rightful heir to the North.

I'd say that Jon + Dany is much more realistic speculation.

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Posted (edited)

Sansa goinna ask him to marry and he will flip out, imo

Edited by Hoo

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I don't think that D&D are setting up a romance for those characters :

  • The remaining time of the show is very limited to bring a new romance to the story
  • From your point of view Jon is a Targ but from their point of view they are still siblings

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If it were to happen between Jon and Sansa I believe it would be something done in the last 15 minutes of the series finale as part of a flash forward explaining how everything turned out in after Dany dies in Jons arms following the defeat of the white walkers.  It would be mentioned that to appease what was left of the kingdoms Jon and Sansa were wed, but it was a sad and loveless marriage, etc.  I do not think this will actually happen, it is just the only possible way that I believe it could.

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Sansa is becoming more cunning and using the tools she has. As has been mentioned, she is going to experience some setbacks in terms of her perceived power (Jon King, Brans return, even Arya coming home reduces some of Sanaa's importance). She will have to make a choice: protect Jon and her family against LF, or work with LF to gain more power. If she chooses to go against LF, she may channel more of a Cersie approach and attempt to use seduction (on anyone) to further her own goals. If she works with LF, he may ask her to do this anyways. He is a pimp after all, and did it before with Sansa/Ramsey.

In the first episode of this season we saw Sansa grab Jons arm as he turned away from her. They both looked at her hand on his arm with surprise and confusion. I am not saying Jon would allow it go along with any sexual advances, but I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility that we see Sansa make a move later on this season. 

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36 minutes ago, The Bastards Giant Friend said:

Sansa is becoming more cunning and using the tools she has. As has been mentioned, she is going to experience some setbacks in terms of her perceived power (Jon King, Brans return, even Arya coming home reduces some of Sanaa's importance). She will have to make a choice: protect Jon and her family against LF, or work with LF to gain more power. If she chooses to go against LF, she may channel more of a Cersie approach and attempt to use seduction (on anyone) to further her own goals. If she works with LF, he may ask her to do this anyways. He is a pimp after all, and did it before with Sansa/Ramsey.

In the first episode of this season we saw Sansa grab Jons arm as he turned away from her. They both looked at her hand on his arm with surprise and confusion. I am not saying Jon would allow it go along with any sexual advances, but I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility that we see Sansa make a move later on this season. 

What has Sansa done that makes you perceive her as more cunning than before? Repeating to ourselves that "she is playing the game" doesn't mean its necessarily a true statement. 

Every action Sansa took since fleeing King's Landing is less than cunning, with the exception of securing the Knights of the Vale for the battle. But even that was LF's choice - he offered them to her himself / she did n't manipulate him to give them to him.

-She accepted to marry Ramsay, despite LF giving her the option to decline...She miraculously managed to eventually escape more due to script immunity rather her cunning

-When LF approached her and offered her the assistance of the Knights of the Vale she insulted and sent him packing...She eventually secured the Knights more due to script immunity (LF just wanted to give them to her against his own interests..?) rather her cunning

-She hid the fact that the Knights of the Vale are comming to join Jon, which in most situations would lead to the Starks fighting the battle before the Knights arrive. The Starks evaded the repercussions and were saved by the Knights more due to script immunity rather her cunning

-She refused help from LF to be crowned as QitN, but now it seems she wants to lead...Well she could have if she just chose to take the throne a few days earlier

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9 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I don't think that D&D are setting up a romance for those characters :

  • The remaining time of the show is very limited to bring a new romance to the story
  • From your point of view Jon is a Targ but from their point of view they are still siblings

I agree there is a limited amount of time left, however, it does seem that its not out of the realm of possibility that Dany and Jon may end up together if not at the end at least they will have some sort of affair. So I do think there is time for a romance.

I don't personally think Jon and Sansa will come together romantically but its not completely off the charts as GRRM doesn't have a problem pairing siblings together. 

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9 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I hope and think not. Neither Jon, nor Sansa seem to have romantic feelings for the other one. I suppose that the only way they could end up married is that when it is publicly known that Jon isn't Ned's son, he would marry Sansa to keep power. But are so many flaws to this speculation - Jon isn't the leader of North because he is the heir, he was elected, and now when Bran made it back to civilisation, Sansa isn't even the rightful heir to the North.

I'd say that Jon + Dany is much more realistic speculation.

Yes, I agree with all you said. I don't really even think they have much chemistry on screen. I was just surprised this friend seemed to think this.

Come to think of it I am quite sure I saw a thread a while ago on this forum somewhere about the possibility of a Jon/Sansa love story. Hmmm might have to do a search.  

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, Nakraal said:

What has Sansa done that makes you perceive her as more cunning than before? Repeating to ourselves that "she is playing the game" doesn't mean its necessarily a true statement. 

Every action Sansa took since fleeing King's Landing is less than cunning, with the exception of securing the Knights of the Vale for the battle. But even that was LF's choice - he offered them to her himself / she did n't manipulate him to give them to him.

-She accepted to marry Ramsay, despite LF giving her the option to decline...She miraculously managed to eventually escape more due to script immunity rather her cunning

-When LF approached her and offered her the assistance of the Knights of the Vale she insulted and sent him packing...She eventually secured the Knights more due to script immunity (LF just wanted to give them to her against his own interests..?) rather her cunning

-She hid the fact that the Knights of the Vale are comming to join Jon, which in most situations would lead to the Starks fighting the battle before the Knights arrive. The Starks evaded the repercussions and were saved by the Knights more due to script immunity rather her cunning

-She refused help from LF to be crowned as QitN, but now it seems she wants to lead...Well she could have if she just chose to take the throne a few days earlier

I agree with every word you said. Sansa wants the power yet she seems to make the stupid choices while overestimating her own cleverness and influence. She considers herself a player while all the time she only follows other people and when she finally can take the matter in her own hands, she backs off.

Edited by Nerevanin

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Two years ago i would have said, Jon and Sansa were a possibility but not after the reunion last season. No, both have other destinies and no, the Imp is not for Sansa. She is a dog lover, not a dwarf lover. Nothing personal against dwarfs but from her own words.

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Funny.

The show-only folk I talk to think Sansa is turning on Jon and have asked me if Sansa turns on him in the books.

 

 

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On 7/21/2017 at 2:59 AM, princess_snow said:

I hope Ive posted in the right sub here.

 

Someone I know who is only a show watcher asked me if I was getting the impression things were being set up for Jon and Sansa to end up together.

I have not thought this myself. I know originally GRRM was intending for Arya and Jon to but I believe that idea got scrapped.  

Just wondered if anyone else has felt this or picked up on something I have not ?

 

edit: formatting  

:cheers:

There is no telling where the show might take that story.  They set aside logic for the sake of fan service.  That said, I don't think Jon and Sansa will end up together. 

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Posted (edited)

Yes, I have seen it, too. Why does the camera change shots/focus to her grabbing his hand (last season) and grabbing his arm (last episode). I mean a more platonic shot would just leave the wide shot. The camera especially focuses on it, so I guess that means we are suppose to notice it? Why? My most platonic explanation is that the show is trying to illustrate how Sansa is using Cersei/LF techniques to manipulate Jon, but wouldn't that still have a sexual implication??? Why does the show do that?

Edited by Bear Claw

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On 7/21/2017 at 8:32 AM, Nakraal said:

What has Sansa done that makes you perceive her as more cunning than before? Repeating to ourselves that "she is playing the game" doesn't mean its necessarily a true statement. 

Every action Sansa took since fleeing King's Landing is less than cunning, with the exception of securing the Knights of the Vale for the battle. But even that was LF's choice - he offered them to her himself / she did n't manipulate him to give them to him.

-She accepted to marry Ramsay, despite LF giving her the option to decline...She miraculously managed to eventually escape more due to script immunity rather her cunning

-When LF approached her and offered her the assistance of the Knights of the Vale she insulted and sent him packing...She eventually secured the Knights more due to script immunity (LF just wanted to give them to her against his own interests..?) rather her cunning

-She hid the fact that the Knights of the Vale are comming to join Jon, which in most situations would lead to the Starks fighting the battle before the Knights arrive. The Starks evaded the repercussions and were saved by the Knights more due to script immunity rather her cunning

-She refused help from LF to be crowned as QitN, but now it seems she wants to lead...Well she could have if she just chose to take the throne a few days earlier

In season 1 you see a girl desperate to be queen. She blindly says and does the things she think will get her married to Joff, even when red flags start to pop up around him.

Season 2 she displays a recognition of her situation but an inability to find any way of turning it to her advantage.

Season 3 she remains stuck in the same situation but begins to realize there are people whom can help her/may become allies.

Season 4 Sansa is an unknowing accomplice to Joffs murder. She is able to begin to understand the politics and depths of the game of thrones via her relationship with LF. This is especially apparent when she lies to Royce and the others about why she was hiding and defends LF. That was cunning, and even took LF by a bit of surprise if I remember the scene correctly.

Season 5 she agrees to marry Ramsay but at that point had no idea what Ramsay was. She did so because she realized it put her closer to the North and would bring more power to her only ally (LF). Remember that her previous marriage experience was not horrific, she knows marriages are much more political than romantic now, and to blame her for getting into the situation where she was raped is not fair. 

Season 6 Sansa takes advantage of LFs affection for her by guilting him over that marriage to Ramsay. This allows her to gain the knights of the Vale via demand instead of accepting help. That is a major difference, LF offering help keeps her in a submissive position while her making him send aid gives her power. I did not realize days passed between LF suggesting she take control and Jon being named king. Either way, the leader of the North is not currently a very enviable position. Where season one Sansa would have done anything to be a queen, season 6 Sansa knows that sometimes opportunity is not ripe. Now, she has to decide if she can protect and use Jon to her own gains or if she needs to once again rely on LF to scheme some sort of upper hand.

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13 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Two years ago i would have said, Jon and Sansa were a possibility but not after the reunion last season. No, both have other destinies and no, the Imp is not for Sansa. She is a dog lover, not a dwarf lover. Nothing personal against dwarfs but from her own words.

Interesting, what made you think that 2 years ago ? Is it due to the books ?

I hope Sansa ends up alone, and suspect she might.

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3 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

Yes, I have seen it, too. Why does the camera change shots/focus to her grabbing his hand (last season) and grabbing his arm (last episode). I mean a more platonic shot would just leave the wide shot. The camera especially focuses on it, so I guess that means we are suppose to notice it? Why? My most platonic explanation is that the show is trying to illustrate how Sansa is using Cersei/LF techniques to manipulate Jon, but wouldn't that still have a sexual implication??? Why does the show do that?

Good points. I hope you are right.

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1 hour ago, princess_snow said:

Interesting, what made you think that 2 years ago ? Is it due to the books ?

I hope Sansa ends up alone, and suspect she might.

When Ramsay mentioned to her that bastards can rise in the world. I got the feeling that the show might go in that direction. That was dashed early in Season 6. There is nothing there other than some not so close sibling rivalry. Nothing to see here stuff.

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