Spoiler: Dany's Small Council

[OldGimletEye]

On 7/28/2017 at 10:09 AM, SeanF said:

I think that a lot of TV and film producers would do well to take advice from people like you, who have actually served in the armed forces.  Strategies and tactics would then make a lot more sense.

Yeah, certainly I think GOT would be improved if they had gotten some good advisors.

[divica]

2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

If I'm going to be convinced to send a good number of troops around Westeros in ships, particularly with Euron's fleet lurking around the area, I'd want a lot better than "wait, but there's a secret entrance!". That's pie-in-the-sky thinking. If that doesn't pan out, you might be facing a real disaster. Plan for the worst, hope for the best is generally a good rule of thumb.

If the Westerlands is a source of Cersei's power and might, then you'd think she'd worry about being cut off from it. And it so happens operating in the Reach somewhere puts you right between KL and CR. Your basically holding a central position between two enemy forces and you know that is a fairly good position to be in, even assuming that Tyrion would have no reason to think that there might be Cersei supporters in the Reach.

And, I'd consider naval movements to be riskier than land marches, particularly with Euron running around with his fleet, which I'd assume Tyrion would know about because of Yara.

But even if you cut her land access to the westerlands you won t gain much because both places are acessable by boat. You just give cersei more time to plot and she send ravens or whatever to CR to use its resources. In the end you will always have to siege KL because an inferior force won t march out of a city to fight a superior force. So you will end up with an army in the field much more time than what you need and not gain much for it...

And a secret tunel into a fortress is one of the best things you can get... you can t simply say it isn t that important... besides, if it doesn t work you can always retreat.

And again, who would think euron will build 1000 ships and allign with cersei that seems to be in a losing position and take so many risks?

[OldGimletEye]

On 7/28/2017 at 11:13 AM, divica said:

But even if you cut her land access to the westerlands you won t gain much because both places are acessable by boat. You just give cersei more time to plot and she send ravens or whatever to CR to use its resources. In the end you will always have to siege KL because an inferior force won t march out of a city to fight a superior force. So you will end up with an army in the field much more time than what you need and not gain much for it...

And a secret tunel into a fortress is one of the best things you can get... you can t simply say it isn t that important... besides, if it doesn t work you can always retreat.

And again, who would think euron will build 1000 ships and allign with cersei that seems to be in a losing position and take so many risks?

Ask yourself, would you rather besiege KL with an army that is fresh and fully equipped or besiege KL held by an army that has taken a shellacking in the field and demoralized. Would you rather besiege KL while Cersei has field forces that she can maneuver or besiege it after you've basically annihilated any field forces she might have. I'd rather pummel all of Cersei's field forces in the open before dealing with a siege.

Now nobody can predict what Cersei would do if she found a hostile force between KL and the Westerlands. But, you'd find out, what she would do soon enough, whether she would try to open up the the line of comm between KL and CR or whether she decides to sit there like a dear caught in headlights.If it looks like she'd rather sit there like a dear caught in headlights, okay, then you can trap her in KL. But you know, since you have that option, since Cersei has decided not to go on offensive, I'm not sure why a direct attack on KL is necessary from the get. In short, your options would kind of be open.

And accessing CR by boat is a rather difficult task given the geographic size of Westeros.

And thinking that your are going to rapidly take CR because there is a secret passage is wishful thinking, and most often that gets you killed. If it doesn't pan out, then realistically that's 10 thousand of Dany's best infantry that goes "poof".

And I wouldn't assume anything about Euron's alliances. What I'd assume though is that he has a formidable fleet and that it would probably be prudent to consider that fleet to be hostile. And if that fleet should intercept the Unsullied while they enroute to CR, that would be a disaster.

[The Commentator]

3 hours ago, El Guapo said:

People really need to stop with this entitled nonsense. Westeros is a feudalistic society which is pretty much based on entitlement. It is not a meritocracy, nor a republic or a democracy.  If you are the eldest male or the last surviving child of a king or Lord than you are entitled to inherit their lands and titles. That is how this society functions. Her views of reclaiming her father's throne are no different than Sansa wanting to reclaim Winterfell, the Blackfish reclaiming Riverrun, Tyrion demanding Casterly Rock from Tywin, Stanis wanting to claim the Iron Throne, Yara wanting to reclaim the Salt throne, etc, etc.

How does Dany winning mean the starks lose? If anything things would just return to what they were at the beginning of the story.

Absolutely right.  Daenerys has just as much, if not more, rights to take back Westeros as the Starks have to take back Winterfell. 

4 hours ago, Fexyr said:

What should Jon do when his little brother is alive and running in a f* straight line? xD

Ok, this is really one of Jon's many faults.  He lost his head in that battle and charged ahead.  A person in his position needed to look at the big picture and be willing to sacrifice Rickon for a more effective battle strategy.  I will repeat what many of his critics including myself have been posting here:  Stannis had to bail Jon out from the wildlings.  Littlefinger had to bail Jon out from the Boltons.  Jon has not won a battle that he led. 

Dany, on the other hand, won over Khal Drogo, led a weakened khalasar through harsh desert and into Vaes Tolorro, rescued 8500 Unsullied from their slave owners, took down an entire sellsword company with minimum loses on her side, and ended the slave trade. 

 

4 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

I am a woman and a feminist and I simply LOVE Dany.  She is by far my favorite character.  Dany is the main hero in this story.  She is responsible for the freedom that many millions of people now have at Slaver's Bay (now rightly called the "Bay of Dragons).  That is more good than anyone in history has ever done.  She put an end to the sadistic practice of slavery.  She's a winner and deserves to rule.

I hate Jon Snow and the Starks.  The Starks are rebels.  The lands of the north belong to the rest of Westeros.  They had no right to elect a "king,"

   

Dany is my favorite character too. 

 

[The Commentator]

4 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

I hate Jon Snow and the Starks.  The Starks are rebels.  The lands of the north belong to the rest of Westeros.  They had no right to elect a "king,"

They sure are.  The north is in rebellion.  Technically, Jon can't be king. 

If the show writers did their jobs, as opposed to continually fan servicing Jon's supporters, next week's meeting will include a thorough interrogation of Jon for desertion of the NW, oath-breaking, and rebellion. 

[Lurid Jester]

On 7/24/2017 at 3:22 AM, Thor Odinson said:

As for Jon, I suspect he'll marry Sansa and live out his days in Winterfell as King in the North, while the rest of the Seven Kingdoms go on their way as separate nations again.

Hrm... I'm betting all three dragons will be gone by the end of the series and with them the magic of the world. 

With the magic gone those who were brought back to like with magic will die. 

Really not expecting Jon to live past the final fight. Even if he does live, I don't see him marrying Sansa. They were raised as brother and sister. You can't just set that aside. 

[The Commentator]

2 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

Hrm... I'm betting all three dragons will be gone by the end of the series and with them the magic of the world. 

With the magic gone those who were brought back to like with magic will die. 

Really not expecting Jon to live past the final fight. Even if he does live, I don't see him marrying Sansa. They were raised as brother and sister. You can't just set that aside. 

Magic is what separate the world of aSoIaF from ours.  Do you believe George will allow the world that he created to go away?  It is my opinion that he will not.  Magic will continue and remain essential to that world.  Magic is part of the reason why it's interesting.  More interesting than real life.  It's just a high drama premium channel soap opera without the magic. 

[cade]

18 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

I thought show Tyrion's plan was to sail the Unsullied around Westeros to take Casterly Rock, which is ridiculous.

Show Tyrion's entire plan is ridiculous. It seems to me Dany and Co.'s strategic problem is fairly straightforward. Lure Cersei's forces out and destroy them. All this takin that city and this place is with all these forces not in support of each other seems kind of stupid. But then again I'm kind of a fan of march divided, fight united. Sure threaten places to get Cersei to commit her forces. But, get her forces to committ. It's not like Dany wouldn't have overwhelming firepower or anything.

Yes, it's ridiculous way beyond the point of believability. It didn't ruin the episode to me, because I've never cared that much about plot or logistics, but even if one agreed with Tyrion's plan there is no way to explain how everyone at that council completely ignored the threat of Euron. Even if one imagines it was mentioned offscreen, they still did virtually nothing to prepare for it.

Theon told Dany and Tyrion even before they'd left Meereen that Euron had some of the Iron Fleet ships already (Yara's side only stole the "best ships," amounting to an estimated 100 total) and was building more. Plus he could steal more. It was extremely obvious that none of Dany's fleets should've been sailing anywhere without dragon cover. Instead, send scouts to find Euron's fleet and have the dragons torch it. Other than that, as you point out there was no reason for Dany's forces to be sailing around Westeros so much once they got there. Land in Dorne, send forces on foot to secure the Reach and consolidate power beyond. The only card Cersei would have left at that point is trying to unite people in fear of Dany's "madness," so prove her wrong by showing generosity and restraint. No one wants to fight for Cersei, not even Jaime. If Dany demonstrates to Jaime that she genuinely wants to bring peace, he might depose Cersei himself. 

Of course, all of that would make for very boring TV.

[snow is the man]

4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Absolutely right.  Daenerys has just as much, if not more, rights to take back Westeros as the Starks have to take back Winterfell. 

Ok, this is really one of Jon's many faults.  He lost his head in that battle and charged ahead.  A person in his position needed to look at the big picture and be willing to sacrifice Rickon for a more effective battle strategy.  I will repeat what many of his critics including myself have been posting here:  Stannis had to bail Jon out from the wildlings.  Littlefinger had to bail Jon out from the Boltons.  Jon has not won a battle that he led. 

Dany, on the other hand, won over Khal Drogo, led a weakened khalasar through harsh desert and into Vaes Tolorro, rescued 8500 Unsullied from their slave owners, took down an entire sellsword company with minimum loses on her side, and ended the slave trade. 

 

   

Dany is my favorite character too. 

 

Jon could not beat the wildlings. He was fighting with less then fifty men and couldn't cover the entire wall from wildlings crawling up it. He went out to kill mance rayder to stop the wildlings from being one force. It was his only real move since noone sent word to castle black that stannis was bringing an army.

 

I think jon going after ramsey was more about him basically saying fu** it I failed. I saw a video on youtube talking about jons resurection and how it really effected him and when he fought to live and not be crushed it was him realizng he wanted to live again. Not his best moment I agree.

Now as for dany having more rights to take back westero's as the starks taking winterfell I really want to know where you got these idea from.

The starks have held winterfell for thousands of years and until the boltons betrayed them and had the lannisters make them warden of the north. And that lasted what a year. Dany was born on dragonstone and left so young she doesn't even remember it. She may have the name targeryean but the targ's were beaten by robert and her father was one of the worst rulers in westero's history. Meanwhile  jon and sansa spent their whole lives (until recently and jon was there before he was a year old) in winterfell. The starks have a right to winterfell far more then dany does to all of westero's. And for the record I do like dany although I am not a fan of how she is doing so far this season

[Lurid Jester]

7 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Magic is what separate the world of aSoIaF from ours.  Do you believe George will allow the world that he created to go away?  It is my opinion that he will not.  Magic will continue and remain essential to that world.  Magic is part of the reason why it's interesting.  More interesting than real life.  It's just a high drama premium channel soap opera without the magic. 

Why does it have to keep going?  Why wouldn't he allow the world he created to go away?  The world is just another character in his story and we all know how permanent those are. 

Besides the show is over in two seasons and it's not going to have the happily ever after ending that is common in fantasy stories.  Sure, the world of planetos will keep on spinning but it's going to be changed.  Maybe we'll learn why the seasons are all wonky. Maybe we'll learn how they've been stuck at a medieval technology level for thousands of years. 

Maybe not. 

[Denam_Pavel]

3 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

Why does it have to keep going?  Why wouldn't he allow the world he created to go away?  The world is just another character in his story and we all know how permanent those are. 

Besides the show is over in two seasons and it's not going to have the happily ever after ending that is common in fantasy stories.  Sure, the world of planetos will keep on spinning but it's going to be changed.  Maybe we'll learn why the seasons are all wonky. Maybe we'll learn how they've been stuck at a medieval technology level for thousands of years. 

Maybe not. 

The magic going away is a common theme infantasy. Not so common in fantasy where the magic had already gone away and was just at the onset of the series coming back again.

[watcher of the night]

The problem with Danny is not that she is entitled (yes it is a medieval society etc), though it is repulsive trait in itself, but that she is a hypocrite. In Essos she is the "breaker of chains", "mother", she is depicted as a modern feminist and bringer of social justice. Back in Westeros she is an absolute monarch: everyone "has to kneel", and the entire continent is her "birthright".

[Greywater-Watch]

Talking about Dany's military strategy (Tyrion's plan) and her targets (Queen of Westeros except Iron Islands) and the means she is ready to use to reach these targets, let me summarize some (conflicting) points:

• Dany's army:
  • Unsullied Infantry: One Argument to get this army in Astapor was - see the discussion in the Show between Dany and Jorah Mormont - they are disciplined, not prone to raping and murdering innocents when sacking a city
  • Dany's Khalasar, acquired end of Season 6 in Vaes Dothrak (in fact a union of all khalasars existing). On her way back to Mereen, shortly after she finds Drogon and Mounts on his back, she reinforces her Leadership over her Khalasar by naming each member her bloodrider and by promising them a destructive war in Westeros ("tear down their Stone halls"). If you have a army of Dothraki and promise them a conquest war, you better know that this implies murdering and raping and plundering for the Dothraki.
  • A small force of Ironborn loyal to Yara, who has convincingly promised to abandon their old way of life (i.e. cruelty, reaving, raping, etc.) in peace times. How far that applies to their behaviour in war times, we will see (or not, if Yara allows Euron to let her small army being nihilated.).
  • => Dany has an army whith a disciplined infantry but a main force of mounted fighters reknown to be the most barbarican warriors in Westeros and Essos together (ok, Vargo Hoat's Bloody Mummers have been a bit worse, maybe).
• Dany's ethical guidelines
  • she seems to agree with Tyrion's plan, to appear as civilized as possible and minimize the use of Dragons (at least of their fire, i.e. the Dragons as a weapon) and the bloodshed. A moral approach questioned by Lady Olenna after the war council on Dragonstone in a short discussion between her and Daenerys.
  • in order not to appear as a conqueror from Essos she decides not to parade her forces where everyone (especially Cersei's potential last allies, the Houses from the Reach no longer under strict control by the Tyrells) can see them (planned siege of KL), but to use them elsewhere (in the Westerlands).

I think Lady Olenna's arguments are absolutely correct and reveal a huge problem in Dany's planning:

• Dany does not have an army to lead a cicilized war. Maybe the Unsullied are able to, but not Dragons, Ironborn or Dothraki.
• She is a conqueror from Essos (A). She is the rightful heir to King Aerys, born in Westeros (B). Two Storys, both correct, sort of two sides of the same coin. Some will believe and tell the first, others the second, Putting so much effort - such as sacrificing military ressources - just to increase the number in people believing the second Story, is very risky.
• Fear is her best weapon. If Dany decides not to inspire fear, she deprives herself of her best weapon.

Further: Tyrion sort of mentioned in the war council that Dany could easily conquer Westeros if she was ready to turn Westeros into a slaughter house. I am not so sure of that. Dany has not an overwhelming firepower as far as soldiers are concerned. Her army counts around 100.000.

None of them experienced in fighting in Westeros. The Reach seems to be like Tyrells support Dany, the rest not. The Stormlands and the Vale are unclear, no political effort has been made by Dany's council to win them as allies.

From ist geographical position, the Stormlands are in my opnion the key to hold the South of Westeros. With the Stormlands on her side, Dany would have one unbroken frontline to the Reach and with the Tyrells make sure that all Houses are under Control; then the whole south would be in Dany's hands, With all freedom afterwards to cut off the Westerlands or lay siege on KL, whatever she wishes. Oh, by the way: Food and fodder of Westeros to 50% under Dany's control. No dangerous ship movements neccessary.

[Wm Portnoy]

That talk with Varys is an example of how much better of a leader Dany is when compared to Robb.  They're going into battle.  It's crucial to determine ahead of time where the loyalties of your Small Council are.  That was a smart move by Dany to force Varys to answer the tough questions.  I loved it when Varys finally said, "I choose you."  Tyrion and Varys chose Dany.  She is the best choice to rule over Westeros. 

The GW and Missandei scene was awkward to say the least.  But it was meant to be awkward.  Here are two young people who used to be slaves who have found true love.   This is happening only because the "Breaker of Chains" liberated them from their masters. 

Tyrion's war strategy has some merit but I will take Yara's side on this one.  Win the war first and then worry about the politics later.  Tyrion is over complicating things.  If you can win the war, which they could easily do, do it and worry about feelings later. 

I believe Euron will be the valonqar.  He has "two hands" to do the deed.

I am looking forward to the meeting between Melissandre and Davos tomorrow night.  I expect Davos would call for Mel's execution but it will end with both sides setting aside their differences.  After all, Jon broke his oaths to the Watch and deserted.  He took up arms against Ramsay.  There are wrongs on both sides.

 

[Samwell_Tarly]

13 minutes ago, Wm Portnoy said:

That talk with Varys is an example of how much better of a leader Dany is when compared to Robb.  They're going into battle.  It's crucial to determine ahead of time where the loyalties of your Small Council are.  That was a smart move by Dany to force Varys to answer the tough questions.  I loved it when Varys finally said, "I choose you."  Tyrion and Varys chose Dany.  She is the best choice to rule over Westeros. 

I totatlly agree here with you, Dany is definitely one of the best leaders westeros. 

 

13 minutes ago, Wm Portnoy said:

I believe Euron will be the valonqar.  He has "two hands" to do the deed.

Have to disagree unfortunately here, not enough evidence to even start a case here.

13 minutes ago, Wm Portnoy said:

I am looking forward to the meeting between Melissandre and Davos tomorrow night.  I expect Davos would call for Mel's execution but it will end with both sides setting aside their differences.  After all, Jon broke his oaths to the Watch and deserted.  He took up arms against Ramsay.  There are wrongs on both sides.

 

This is going to very interesting in how this pans out, its obvious Davos is going to want her dead as said its going to put to one side and the main problem of the white walkers is going to be addressed or atleast try to. In theory Jon has broke no vows to the night watch regarding him leaving, he gave his life and his watch ended. I don't think taking  up arms against the boltons after what they did to their family (I.e red wedding,  Rickons death, Sansas abuse) can be classed as doing wrong. 

[Roswell]

19 hours ago, snow is the man said:

 

I think jon going after ramsey was more about him basically saying fu** it I failed. I saw a video on youtube talking about jons resurection and how it really effected him and when he fought to live and not be crushed it was him realizng he wanted to live again. Not his best moment I agree.

He's too emotional to make for a good ruler.  Someone else should have led that battle on his behalf.

Now as for dany having more rights to take back westero's as the starks taking winterfell I really want to know where you got these idea from.

The starks have held winterfell for thousands of years and until the boltons betrayed them and had the lannisters make them warden of the north. And that lasted what a year. Dany was born on dragonstone and left so young she doesn't even remember it. She may have the name targeryean but the targ's were beaten by robert and her father was one of the worst rulers in westero's history. Meanwhile  jon and sansa spent their whole lives (until recently and jon was there before he was a year old) in winterfell. The starks have a right to winterfell far more then dany does to all of westero's. And for the record I do like dany although I am not a fan of how she is doing so far this season

The Boltons with their Frey allies defeated the Starks.  Robb was soundly and thoroughly defeated.  Going by what you're saying, the Boltons won the north and Winterfell.  It was approved by the Hand of the King, Lord Tywin.  If you believe the Starks retained rights to Winterfell then you have  to acknowledge that Daenerys, as the heir to Viserys, retained her rights to the lands of Westeros.

 

 

[Denam_Pavel]

9 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

 

Further: Tyrion sort of mentioned in the war council that Dany could easily conquer Westeros if she was ready to turn Westeros into a slaughter house. I am not so sure of that. Dany has not an overwhelming firepower as far as soldiers are concerned. Her army counts around 100.000.

The Reach alone makes up near 100,000. So do the Dothraki, they also have way way more cavalry then any Westerosi army. Add to that the Unsullied, the Dornish and the Ironborn and the dragons and yes, Dany could take KL in a day with ease and immediately come down on any castle that declares against them with force, the numbers and mobilty of the Dothraki in the field along with her dragons making castle defense impossible means she's kinda unstoppable.

Well, unless she makes landfall on an island first and then risks the ships needed to make landfall on the mainland on round about schemes. So that's what she did.

[divica]

10 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Talking about Dany's military strategy (Tyrion's plan) and her targets (Queen of Westeros except Iron Islands) and the means she is ready to use to reach these targets, let me summarize some (conflicting) points:

• Dany's army:
  • Unsullied Infantry: One Argument to get this army in Astapor was - see the discussion in the Show between Dany and Jorah Mormont - they are disciplined, not prone to raping and murdering innocents when sacking a city
  • Dany's Khalasar, acquired end of Season 6 in Vaes Dothrak (in fact a union of all khalasars existing). On her way back to Mereen, shortly after she finds Drogon and Mounts on his back, she reinforces her Leadership over her Khalasar by naming each member her bloodrider and by promising them a destructive war in Westeros ("tear down their Stone halls"). If you have a army of Dothraki and promise them a conquest war, you better know that this implies murdering and raping and plundering for the Dothraki.
  • A small force of Ironborn loyal to Yara, who has convincingly promised to abandon their old way of life (i.e. cruelty, reaving, raping, etc.) in peace times. How far that applies to their behaviour in war times, we will see (or not, if Yara allows Euron to let her small army being nihilated.).
  • => Dany has an army whith a disciplined infantry but a main force of mounted fighters reknown to be the most barbarican warriors in Westeros and Essos together (ok, Vargo Hoat's Bloody Mummers have been a bit worse, maybe).
• Dany's ethical guidelines
  • she seems to agree with Tyrion's plan, to appear as civilized as possible and minimize the use of Dragons (at least of their fire, i.e. the Dragons as a weapon) and the bloodshed. A moral approach questioned by Lady Olenna after the war council on Dragonstone in a short discussion between her and Daenerys.
  • in order not to appear as a conqueror from Essos she decides not to parade her forces where everyone (especially Cersei's potential last allies, the Houses from the Reach no longer under strict control by the Tyrells) can see them (planned siege of KL), but to use them elsewhere (in the Westerlands).

I think Lady Olenna's arguments are absolutely correct and reveal a huge problem in Dany's planning:

• Dany does not have an army to lead a cicilized war. Maybe the Unsullied are able to, but not Dragons, Ironborn or Dothraki.
• She is a conqueror from Essos (A). She is the rightful heir to King Aerys, born in Westeros (B). Two Storys, both correct, sort of two sides of the same coin. Some will believe and tell the first, others the second, Putting so much effort - such as sacrificing military ressources - just to increase the number in people believing the second Story, is very risky.
• Fear is her best weapon. If Dany decides not to inspire fear, she deprives herself of her best weapon.

Further: Tyrion sort of mentioned in the war council that Dany could easily conquer Westeros if she was ready to turn Westeros into a slaughter house. I am not so sure of that. Dany has not an overwhelming firepower as far as soldiers are concerned. Her army counts around 100.000.

None of them experienced in fighting in Westeros. The Reach seems to be like Tyrells support Dany, the rest not. The Stormlands and the Vale are unclear, no political effort has been made by Dany's council to win them as allies.

From ist geographical position, the Stormlands are in my opnion the key to hold the South of Westeros. With the Stormlands on her side, Dany would have one unbroken frontline to the Reach and with the Tyrells make sure that all Houses are under Control; then the whole south would be in Dany's hands, With all freedom afterwards to cut off the Westerlands or lay siege on KL, whatever she wishes. Oh, by the way: Food and fodder of Westeros to 50% under Dany's control. No dangerous ship movements neccessary.

People that criticize their plan tend to Forget a lot of things.

1) why would anyone believe that the tyrells bannermen would answer cersei's call after what she did to the tyrells? It would be the same as having the dornish betray the sandsnakes... Besides it isn t common to have so many bannermen revolt against their lord.

2) The reach and dornish armies are civilised, westerosi and between 100 to 150K soldiers. why should it be hard for this many soldiers to siege KL and keep the lannisters soldiers inside? (at most 40 to 50K and I am being generous)

3) Danny and the show writters don t want to make her a villain. It is pretty hard to film a person burning thousands of people in a city and don t make her appear as a villain. Besides, all the people in westeros would hate danny. She would never have peace. In order to rule by fear you have to be a monster and it has its drawbacks and advantages...

[snow is the man]

3 hours ago, The Transporter said:

 

The boltons and the freys butchered the starks at a wedding not at a battlefield (if rhegar had won jaime never would have killed aery's). Also sansa and jon grew up there and spent pretty much their whole lives in winterfell where as dany has left westero's before she was a year old. So dany is essentially a foreigner coming to take back a throne in a country she has never seen where as jon and sansa spent most of their lives in winterfell. Your letting your dislike of jon get in your way of seeing this. and before you say I am letting my dislike of dany do the same I actually like her

[snow is the man]

7 hours ago, Wm Portnoy said:

That talk with Varys is an example of how much better of a leader Dany is when compared to Robb.  They're going into battle.  It's crucial to determine ahead of time where the loyalties of your Small Council are.  That was a smart move by Dany to force Varys to answer the tough questions.  I loved it when Varys finally said, "I choose you."  Tyrion and Varys chose Dany.  She is the best choice to rule over Westeros. 

The GW and Missandei scene was awkward to say the least.  But it was meant to be awkward.  Here are two young people who used to be slaves who have found true love.   This is happening only because the "Breaker of Chains" liberated them from their masters. 

Tyrion's war strategy has some merit but I will take Yara's side on this one.  Win the war first and then worry about the politics later.  Tyrion is over complicating things.  If you can win the war, which they could easily do, do it and worry about feelings later. 

I believe Euron will be the valonqar.  He has "two hands" to do the deed.

I am looking forward to the meeting between Melissandre and Davos tomorrow night.  I expect Davos would call for Mel's execution but it will end with both sides setting aside their differences.  After all, Jon broke his oaths to the Watch and deserted.  He took up arms against Ramsay.  There are wrongs on both sides.

 

jon didn't break his oath. He died which ended his oath that was essentially the whole reason to kill him in terms of writing. and since he was no longer part of the nights watch he wasn't breaking any oaths by taking up arms against ramsey