Allardyce

Spoiler: Dany's Small Council

234 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

More like a GOP town hall. But you're right, I suppose three dragons do make people less argumentative. 

Same difference.  It is meant to show that the North is evolving into something more democratic/ open than what Dany has in mind, which is an absolute monarchy where no one contradicts her.

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The scene on its own was great, but for me it was negated by the fact that it played like their first conversation, despite the fact that they've spent an entire (admittedly offscreen) ride across the narrow sea on the same ship. I know its a nitpick, but for me it really drew attention to the stupidity of having Varys in that final shot last season, could have so easily been fixed by having him arrive with the Tyrells and the Dornish in this exact episode.

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2 hours ago, kg1982 said:

I thought that Conleth was very good in this scene.  It was probably one of the best showcases Varys has had in a while since his famous riddle in Season 2 and his talks with LF in Season 2 and Season 3.  I love him being for the commoners and telling her straight out that her daddy was evil.  However, there is something very off about Danerys and her characterization.  I am not sure if we are supposed to see her as a villain or if it is just bad writing and acting.  I suspect/ fear the latter.  Dany becoming a villain would be a cool twist, but my fear is that she will continue to act as an authoritarian bitch and be gifted the Throne with everyone kneeling to her.  

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We know from the spoilers that Jon basically sells out the North for nothing and becomes her mistress because Dany is SO perfect and wonderful and deserves to be queen while he is apparently garbage unworthy to lick her boots.  And this is after she spends the season being awful to him.

 

 

That spoiler better not be true!

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10 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

That spoiler better not be true!

I'm sure it is to a degree, although the way the poster characterizes the spoiler is grossly disingenuous.

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12 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

I'm sure it is to a degree, although the way the poster characterizes the spoiler is grossly disingenuous.

Nope.  It is completely true.  Go to the threads where these things are discussed.  I've posted stuff from Watchers on the Wall confirming it.

Spoiler

 

 
 
Spoiler

Episode 6 is a complete destruction of Jon's character and yes it ends with him completely naked/ emasculated selling the North down the river to Dany because she is sad about her dragons.  Oh, but he calls her by a fan nickname and she doesn't have his tongue out so it is obviously a relationship of equals, don't mind the fact that he literally is her subject who she can execute on a whim.

 

 

Edited by kg1982

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1 minute ago, kg1982 said:

Nope.  It is completely true.  Go to the threads where these things are discussed.  I've posted stuff from Watchers on the Wall confirming it.

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Episode 6 is a complete destruction of Jon's character and yes it ends with him completely naked/ emasculated selling the North down the river to Dany because she is sad about her dragons.  Oh, but he calls her by a fan nickname and she doesn't have his tongue out so it is obviously a relationship of equals, don't mind the fact that he literally is her subject who she can execute on a whim.

 

 

The occurrence of the events is true. Your interpretation is what's obviously skewed.

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Just now, Thor Odinson said:

The occurrence of the events is true. Your interpretation is what's obviously skewed.

 

Just now, Thor Odinson said:

The occurrence of the events is true. Your interpretation is what's obviously skewed.

Spoiler

He sells out the North to Dany and becomes her pet slave.  What in my interpretation is off?

 

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We know from the spoilers that Jon basically sells out the North for nothing

BS interpretation. A willingness to lay down his crown as King in the North to get her help isn't him "selling out the North", but doing what he can to save it. Calling him a "sell out" implies he's getting something at the expense of the North, when the EXACT OPPOSITE is true, as he's getting less for the benefit of the North. And a couple dragons, an army of Unsullied and Dothraki to fight the White Walkers with certainly isn't "nothing."

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and becomes her mistress because Dany is SO perfect and wonderful and deserves to be queen while he is apparently garbage unworthy to lick her boots.

BS interpretation. Jon and Daenerys sleeping together isn't indicative of her being perfect and wonderful or him believing he's garbage unworthy to lick her boots.

Quote

And this is after she spends the season being awful to him.

I guess you never heard of Ygritte? Because she was so warm and kind to him when they met. I believe their breakup involved her shooting him three times in the ass with arrows.

Edited by Thor Odinson

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10 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

BS interpretation. A willingness to lay down his crown as King in the North to get her help isn't him "selling out the North", but doing what he can to save it. Calling him a "sell out" implies he's getting something at the expense of the North, when the EXACT OPPOSITE is true, as he's getting less for the benefit of the North. And a couple dragons, an army of Unsullied and Dothraki to fight the White Walkers with certainly isn't "nothing."

BS interpretation. Jon and Daenerys sleeping together isn't indicative of her being perfect and wonderful or him believing he's garbage unworthy to lick her boots.

I guess you never heard of Ygritte? Because she was so warm and kind to him when they met. I believe their breakup involved her shooting him three times in the ass with arrows.

 

Dany does seem like she is being a bitch this season. Also perhaps jon ends up getting to be king of the north anyways. And I might be missing something but why is he her sex slave? Is he locked up or something?

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16 minutes ago, kg1982 said:

 

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He sells out the North to Dany and becomes her pet slave.  What in my interpretation is off?

 

The spoiler is this: Jon offers to lay down his crown as King in the North and bend the knee to Daenerys if she helps them fight the White Walkers.

Logically speaking, how is he "selling out the North"? A sell out is someone who betrays their cause for personal advancement. Jon making that offer isn't him personally advancing. It's him giving up his current status and power.

Logically speaking, how does making that offer represent him betraying the cause of the North? The cause of the North, at present, is surviving the invasion of the Night King. That act on his part is done to advance that cause, not betray it.

Logically speaking, how is he getting "nothing" when he makes the offer with the intention of getting 8,000 Unsullied, 100,000 Dothraki, and two dragons to come up North and fight the White Walkers? 

Logically speaking, how is your interpretation anything other than one which is hopelessly skewed and ridiculously biased to the point that it's a completely inaccurate depiction of events based on your negative views of one character which you're obviously heavily biased against (In this case, Daenerys)?

IMO, Daenerys will become an antagonist by the series end, but your "interpretation" of the rumors is anything but an accurate one, completely mischaracterizing the rumored scenes to the point where they're not an honest depiction of the rumors as all (As evidenced by the following post where the poster, having read your comment, now believes that Jon Snow is literally locked up in a dungeon somewhere and serving as Daenerys's sex slave. And you're seriously sitting there asking where your "interpretation" is off?).

Edited by Thor Odinson

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Just now, snow is the man said:

 

Dany does seem like she is being a bitch this season. Also perhaps jon ends up getting to be king of the north anyways. And I might be missing something but why is he her sex slave? Is he locked up or something?

He's not her "sex slave." This is why I said that posters "interpretation" (a better word for it would be "lying") of the rumors are heavily skewed. Jon and Daenerys, according to rumors, have consensual sex. That poster, however, because I guess the poster is a huge Jon fan and can't stand Daenerys, chose to characterize that as him being her "sex slave." 

No, he's not her sex slave, he's not locked up somewhere, etc. They're on a ship going south, she's grieving over the loss of Viserion, and they have sex. It's as simple as that. For someone's takeaway from that rumor to be that Jon is a "sex slave" just indicates how heavily skewed that person's perspective is by their own biases.

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Just now, Thor Odinson said:

He's not her "sex slave." This is why I said that posters "interpretation" (a better word for it would be "lying") of the rumors are heavily skewed. Jon and Daenerys, according to rumors, have consensual sex. That poster, however, because I guess the poster is a huge Jon fan and can't stand Daenerys, chose to characterize that as him being her "sex slave." 

No, he's not her sex slave, he's not locked up somewhere, etc. They're on a ship going south, she's grieving over the loss of Viserion, and they have sex. It's as simple as that. For someone's takeaway from that rumor to be that Jon is a "sex slave" just indicates how heavily skewed that person's perspective is by their own biases.

if this is in episode 6 then what happens in episode seven. There are seven episodes this season right

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Spoiler
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BS interpretation. A willingness to lay down his crown as King in the North to get her help isn't him "selling out the North", but doing what he can to save it.

 

He is selling out the North to tyranny afterward.  What happens if they defeat the Night's King?  He has just sold them out to an arrogant spoiled Targaryen brat who thinks she is owed the Throne.  Human monsters are as dangerous as White Walkers.

And on top of that the spoilers are that he doesn't trade the North for help.  Snowflake, the Just and Perfect, is willing to give it to him and he sells the North out anyway.

 

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BS interpretation. Jon and Daenerys sleeping together isn't indicative of her being perfect and wonderful or him believing he's garbage unworthy to lick her boots.

1

I wasn't even talking about that.  I was talking about him basically selling out the North to Dany for nothing in return.  And the implication is that he is doing so because he thinks she is the bestest queen ever and he is unworthy to rule anything.

But hey you brought up the hideous sex montage so there is another point of emasculation.  What is Jon going to do after the war?  Follow Dany lovingly around KL walking two steps behind her and do embroidery.

 

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I guess you never heard of Ygritte? Because she was so warm and kind to him when they met. I believe their breakup involved her shooting him three times in the ass with arrows.

 

I hated Ygritte/Jon.  Why can't the guy have a relationship where he is actually an equal, not some submissive.

 

 

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1 minute ago, snow is the man said:

if this is in episode 6 then what happens in episode seven. There are seven episodes this season right

The rumor states they sleep together in episode seven, the season ender.

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4 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

The rumor states they sleep together in episode seven, the season ender.

But if she was willing to fight the night king anyways why did he submit. I do think that jon really doesn't want to be king though

Edited by snow is the man

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6 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

The spoiler is this: Jon offers to lay down his crown as King in the North and bend the knee to Daenerys if she helps them fight the White Walkers.

Logically speaking, how is he "selling out the North"? A sell out is someone who betrays their cause for personal advancement. Jon making that offer isn't him personally advancing. It's him giving up his current status and power.

Logically speaking, how does making that offer represent him betraying the cause of the North? The cause of the North, at present, is surviving the invasion of the Night King. That act on his part is done to advance that cause, not betray it.

Logically speaking, how is he getting "nothing" when he makes the offer with the intention of getting 8,000 Unsullied, 100,000 Dothraki, and two dragons to come up North and fight the White Walkers? 

Logically speaking, how is your interpretation anything other than one which is hopelessly skewed and ridiculously biased to the point that it's a completely inaccurate depiction of events based on your negative views of one character which you're obviously heavily biased against (In this case, Daenerys)?

IMO, Daenerys will become an antagonist by the series end, but your "interpretation" of the rumors is anything but an accurate one, completely mischaracterizing the rumored scenes to the point where they're not an honest depiction of the rumors as all (As evidenced by the following post where the poster, having read your comment, now believes that Jon Snow is literally locked up in a dungeon somewhere and serving as Daenerys's sex slave. And you're seriously sitting there asking where your "interpretation" is off?).

Spoiler

He literally sells out the North to her for nothing.  That is the spoiler.  She is willing to help him.  And I nowhere even mentioned the bad sex montage, just that the inference was that Jon thought that she was thebestest queen of all time and that he should kneel to her because of it.  It is the implication that girls rule and boys drool and girls should be in charge, not any sexual implication.  That was your color, not my spoiler.  And I am sorry that you don't like the fact that everyone doesn't LOVE Daenerys, but deal with it.  Dany fans are so sensitive.  Please stop with the personal attacks.  'Kay?

 

Oh and you have to cover up your spoilers.  

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He is selling out the North to tyranny afterward. What happens if they defeat the Night's King? He has just sold them out to an arrogant spoiled Targaryen brat who thinks she is owed the Throne. Human monsters are as dangerous as White Walkers.

What happens afterwards? They live. That's what happens afterwards. Geeze, are you so colored by your prejudices that you can't see the difference? Not even the worst tyrant took power with the promise of total extinction with the human race, which is what they're facing with the White Walkers. And while I'm not a fan of Daenerys, and I'm sure that in time she'll become "the Mad Queen", she's currently not a "tyrant" by any stretch of the imagination. Certainly not by the standards of Westeros, where her claim to the throne isn't considered an unreasonable or unusual thing.

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And on top of that the spoilers are that he doesn't trade the North for help.  Snowflake, the Just and Perfect, is willing to give it to him and he sells the North out anyway.

Again, he doesn't "sell out the North." He's putting the survival of the North over politics which he considers meaningless. It's funny, you criticize Daenerys for her claim that the throne belongs to her, while you're also criticizing Jon because he's not dead set on clinging to his throne no matter what, even at the expense of the wellbeing and lives of all the North?

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I wasn't even talking about that.  I was talking about him basically selling out the North to Dany for nothing in return.

Once again, 8,000 Unsullied, 100,000 Dothraki, and two dragons are not nothing.

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And the implication is that he is doing so because he thinks she is the bestest queen ever and he is unworthy to rule anything.

That's not the implication at all. The only person who's ever spouted that nonsense has been you, and that clearly comes from a place of bias and prejudice against the character of Daenerys that it's made you histrionic and ridiculous in the way you twist rumors in the worst possible way.

Quote

But hey you brought up the hideous sex montage so there is another point of emasculation.  What is Jon going to do after the war?  Follow Dany lovingly around KL walking two steps behind her and do embroidery.

And here again we have your overwrought prejudices on display, clearly preventing you from thinking clearly, much less giving something other than a massively jaundiced and frankly inaccurate interpretation of events.

Edited by Thor Odinson

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4 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

But if she was willing to fight the night king anyways why did he submit. I do think that jon really doesn't want to be king though

Spoiler

If Jon wants to be Dany's pet and devote his life to looking at her lovingly and doing embroidery, then he doesn't need to sell out the North for that.

 

 

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Just now, kg1982 said:
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If Jon wants to be Dany's pet and devote his life to looking at her lovingly and doing embroidery, then he doesn't need to sell out the North for that.

 

 

I'm not liking dany this season but what you are saying seems a bit of a stretch.

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