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[Spoilers] Rant and Rave with Impunity


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6 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I sure hope they don't kill off Jamie Lannister, he is one of the few characters that can still convey emotion. I hope he ends up winning and becoming King just because he's the only Noble left that isn't possibly a pod person.

 

 

I dunno.  I feel like they've gutted his character arc.  He is far past where he had gotten in the books, which was to ignore her pleas for help, and yet there he is, at her side, helping her "win" -- he shouldn't want her to win. 

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The whole episode just felt off to me, and very disappointing considering the season premiere signaled for great things to come. I was really bothered by this, most of all:

Dany sending her allies all the way back to Sunspear - She came from Slaver's Bay, which is far down south her fleet would've passed by the Dornish coast on the way to Dragonstone. Why not just make the stopover there? It doesn't make sense to have the Sand Snakes +  QoT travel from Dorne to Dragonstone then have Dany order Yara + Sand Snakes to go back to Dorne to mobilize their men. They would've saved an awful lot of time. Additionally, travelling back and forth by sea just seems so dangerous and time-consuming. I understand Dany had to meet them in person at first, but she could've just done that if she stopped at Sunspear on the way to Dragonstone.

Also, it seems to me that is quite shortsighted of Qyburn to make a ballista that will "wound" dragons. Sure, it pierced the bone of Balerion the dread, but I though it was a generally accepted rule that dragons have thick hide. If you really want to render them vulnerable, you have to get past that hide first. My boyfriend mentioned a similar contraption was used to kill dragons during the Blackfyre rebellion (as per A World of Ice and Fire), but weren't those dragons bred in the dragonpit and therefore considerably smaller and weaker than Balerion, Vhagar, and Meraxes. I'm not saying it's entirely impossible to wound a dragon of Drogon's scale, but with that thing? Meh. 

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HBO is on a roll.  I really enjoyed this episode, particularly the interpersonal drama at Dragonstone.  Varys had a lot of explaining to do and the Mother of Dragons asked the right questions.  Varys gave the right answers.  Daenerys made the right decision.  Varys believes Dany is the right choice for Westeros and I agree.  I love Daenerys in both books and show. 

The love scene between Missandei and Greyworm were uncomfortable to watch but it was needed to show that even an unsullied and a former slave still have their humanity and can find a worthwhile place in the world by serving a greater cause, serving Daenerys. 

I believe Theon did the right thing.  Yara was lost and he had no chance against his uncle.  His first duty is now to report what happened to Queen Daenerys.  I know Theon is a coward but a broken man doesn't become whole overnight, if ever.  It can happen as I said above of former slaves greyworm and Missandei. 

I really hope Jon bows and gives up the North to Dany.  For one thing, the North is part of Westeros.  A king in the north should not exists at all. 

The story arc at the citadel were good.  Jorah needs to hurry up and get cured.  Tyrion doesn't know anything about warfare.  It's inconsistent with his victory at Blackwater.  I think Lady Ollena is right.

The wolf smelled something not right about Arya.  That's why she turned away.

Jaime and Cersei just need to hurry up and die. 

I like Petyr Baelish.  I want to see him cause major problems in the north.  All these soft teasings of his potential to trouble Jon is getting stale.  He needs to do something against the Starks that causes them major hurt.

Great sea battle in the end.  Sure you have to suspend your disbelief.  It's not like they have Nightvision goggles.  You can't tell friend from enemy in the dark.  Much less one ship from another.  I want Ellaria Sand and Ollena to survive.

 

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6 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

may be considered nitpicking, but do you all remember when Stannis attempted to acquire a loan from the Iron Bank, but he was quickly put in his place when asked about the amount of resources at his disposal on Dragonstone?

Dany shows up at an empty Dragonstone, meaning no smallfolk working the fields, or tending to livestock, or fishing.  Meanwhile, Cersei and Jaime discuss their need for resources to feed the city and their army now that the Tyrells have jumped ship.  Cut to Tyrion discussing a protracted siege of King's Landing to starve them out (also a lot of suffering for the smallfolk who don't deserve to be burned, but clearly deserve to be starved).

what about feeding Dany's Unsullied army?  or the Dothraki (who have yet to make an appearance)? or even the Dragons?  they will have no choice but to pillage their way across the continent, regardless of destination.  or, more than likely, this will never be addressed and everything will work out perfectly for Dany because reasons.

 

 

 

Yes, Dragonstone is another Mythical Medieval Place (I'm looking at you, Minas Tirith in the LOTR movies) with no visible means of supporting itself, i.e. livestock, fields, fishing.  I guess Dany's forces and allies brought a lot of beef jerky with them; but what are the dragons going to eat?  

Dany's armies should have launched an invasion of King's Landing two days after she landed in Dragonstone. By waiting, she's just giving Cersei more time to marshall her forces, rope in more allies, come up with anti-dragon weapons - all of which she's doing while Dany is saying "Shall we begin" (Tarly family & troops enlisted, alliance with Ironborn king, Qyburn building ballista(s)).  

Right now, I'm thinking of Dany's TV version of her vision in the House of the Undying, specifically, her entering the deserted and broken-roofed and snow-covered palace at King's Landing and looking at, but not touching the Iron Throne, then going out to the Wall.  I wonder if that portends that King's Landing will be destroyed or badly damaged before Dany ever enters that throne room (winter?  white walkers?  Euron turning on Cersei?  All of the above?); and Dany will Go North to Go South or whatever.

I just hope Olenna Tyrell lives long enough to see or hear of Cersei's death.

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49 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said:

HBO is on a roll.  I really enjoyed this episode, particularly the interpersonal drama at Dragonstone.  Varys had a lot of explaining to do and the Mother of Dragons asked the right questions.  Varys gave the right answers.  Daenerys made the right decision.  Varys believes Dany is the right choice for Westeros and I agree.  I love Daenerys in both books and show. 

The love scene between Missandei and Greyworm were uncomfortable to watch but it was needed to show that even an unsullied and a former slave still have their humanity and can find a worthwhile place in the world by serving a greater cause, serving Daenerys. 

I believe Theon did the right thing.  Yara was lost and he had no chance against his uncle.  His first duty is now to report what happened to Queen Daenerys.  I know Theon is a coward but a broken man doesn't become whole overnight, if ever.  It can happen as I said above of former slaves greyworm and Missandei. 

I really hope Jon bows and gives up the North to Dany.  For one thing, the North is part of Westeros.  A king in the north should not exists at all. 

The story arc at the citadel were good.  Jorah needs to hurry up and get cured.  Tyrion doesn't know anything about warfare.  It's inconsistent with his victory at Blackwater.  I think Lady Ollena is right.

The wolf smelled something not right about Arya.  That's why she turned away.

Jaime and Cersei just need to hurry up and die. 

I like Petyr Baelish.  I want to see him cause major problems in the north.  All these soft teasings of his potential to trouble Jon is getting stale.  He needs to do something against the Starks that causes them major hurt.

Great sea battle in the end.  Sure you have to suspend your disbelief.  It's not like they have Nightvision goggles.  You can't tell friend from enemy in the dark.  Much less one ship from another.  I want Ellaria Sand and Ollena to survive.

 

What does Dany or any Targ know of the North? Sorry, she shouldnt rule over it. To me the northerners are just so much different culturally to the rest of westeros.

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I agree.

59 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said:

HBO is on a roll.  I really enjoyed this episode, particularly the interpersonal drama at Dragonstone.  Varys had a lot of explaining to do and the Mother of Dragons asked the right questions.  Varys gave the right answers.  Daenerys made the right decision.  Varys believes Dany is the right choice for Westeros and I agree.  I love Daenerys in both books and show. 

 

I believe Theon did the right thing.  Yara was lost and he had no chance against his uncle.  His first duty is now to report what happened to Queen Daenerys.  I know Theon is a coward but a broken man doesn't become whole overnight, if ever.  It can happen as I said above of former slaves greyworm and Missandei. 

 

I like Petyr Baelish.  I want to see him cause major problems in the north.  All these soft teasings of his potential to trouble Jon is getting stale.  He needs to do something against the Starks that causes them major hurt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

And by the way, I wonder if there is a shortcut on the way from Dragonstone to Winterfell. Dany arrives and sends a raven to Jon who receives it some time later. Fine. However, in the previous episode Sam sends a raven to Jon and Jon receives this raven days after the Dany's one, although around the same time Sam sends the raven to Jon, he says to Jorah that Dany has yet to arrive. And, an even more interesting thing, a raven about Bran from The Wall has yet to arrive to Winterfell (I'm naive and expect Edd to send a word to Jon about his long lost brother). I suppose that the raven from the Wall took a shortcut throught Pentos, Meereen and Asshai...

 

Maybe the raven got attacked on the way by an eagle. or something. you guys take everything too literally. there are like what, 11 episodes left? shall we spend them making sure we see the plots, schemes, designs and maps drawn up, the massing of forces, the build up with 50 minute epidodes and yet still so much to cover?

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It seems everything I'd want to rant about is mentioned, but I still just can't.

Euron belongs to The Pirates of the Carribean, probably he went for a casting but mistakenly landed in the GOT. He's in no way enigmatic and dangerous, but a caricature psycopath.

Dany has no reaction on Jon being a son of Ned Stark who wasn one of the leading figures of the rebelion outsting her family.

Hot Pie is an aspiring Master of Whisperers apparently, he knows more than Varys, Tyrio, Olenna and other renown profis in intrigues. There was no point in introducing him again. It was absolutely emotionless. Arya could learn this information from random inn visitors as back in s4, when Sandor and Arya learned about Joffrey's death.

12 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

While I have no issue with a sex scene or a romance, I felt this one just never worked for me, exactly because they tabled romantic plots for most of the main characters for several seasons. Out of sight was out of mind, or at least out of screen-mind for the main characters. Jon doesn't grieve Igritte. Sandor hasn't mentioned little bird since his reappearance. Sandor was "a man" last season. Gendry was still rowing. Hell even with siblings, even when they know their siblings are alive, they don't mention them whatsoever, unless it's unavoidable. Of course those romances were never off the table, but they've been so coy with any type of affection from these main characters for their siblings or the people they have actual romantic feelings for that people started to look romance in innane ships.

Very well said. That was my impression too. They did some references in earlier seasons (Arya starring at half-naked Gendry, "one happy memory" line) but it was soooo long ago.

I wonder if Gendrya, B&J and SanSan were totally brushed off or they would happen out of the blue? We need some actual romace in the show, but why these two?

I didn't see any sense in this scene except for getting critics' praises for showing "consensual respectful sex".

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4 hours ago, nara said:

 

The problem (or one of them) is that the story has gotten to a place where the less experienced actors (Stark kids, Dany) have more screen time than the experienced actors.  This is has been true for a couple of seasons, with the exception of Margaery/Natalie, Tyrion/Peter, and Cersei/Lena.  Natalie is gone, Conleth and NCW (especially NCW) have been woefully underused for a while, and Jorah/Iain is barely in the show now.  As characters continue to converge on one or two locations, this problem will only get worse.

I disagree that this is any sort of problem.

D&D have deliberately given more screen time to actors they favor and those happen to largely be the more experienced actors. 

I agree NCW has been underused, but certainly the likes of Lena Heady, Peter Dinklage, Charles Dance, Liam Cunningham, Natalie Dormer, Carise Van Houten, Rory McCann, Iain Glen, Conleth Hill, Aiden Gillen, Diana Rigg, etc have all had AT LEAST as much screentime as their characters warrant in the story and in some cases FAR more.

Of the younger actors, yes there have definitely been problems with Emilia, Kit and Sophie. The latter two have improved but still cant carry a scene like the more experienced actors, but then theyve generally been given lower quality material to work with also. The best writing and dialogue on this show almost always is given to the older actors. 

Isaac as Bran has barely been given any screentime or opportunity to display his acting capabilities. He has been used for exposition and at least in the last two seasons has not had much character or personality development (yes his powers have grown, but thats really all we know about him).

Maisie has been one of the more consistent performers on the show despite some horrible writing for her plotlines the last few seasons and is the only younger actor able to match it with the older ones when sharing a scene. 

The story needs to focus on the likes of Jon, Dany, Arya, Bran and Tyrion particularly as it draws to the end as they are the principal characters of the story.

 

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13 minutes ago, of man and wolf said:

Maybe the raven got attacked on the way by an eagle. or something. you guys take everything too literally. there are like what, 11 episodes left? shall we spend them making sure we see the plots, schemes, designs and maps drawn up, the massing of forces, the build up with 50 minute epidodes and yet still so much to cover?

Well, this is the rant thread.  This is where we point out the realism that is sorely lacking in the show, especially things they used to bother to detail and now actively ignore.  Such as a Raven from a castle in the North detailing the survival of the King's brother taking longer to arrive than Ravens from far to the south.  Unless of course Edd thought there was no reason Jon would be interested in learning that Bran had made it past the Wall.

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3 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Hot Pie is an aspiring Master of Whisperers apparently, he knows more than Varys, Tyrio, Olenna and other renown profis in intrigues. There was no point in introducing him again. It was absolutely emotionless. Arya could learn this information from random inn visitors as back in s4, when Sandor and Arya learned about Joffrey's death.

I'll agree that it was emotionless, and I'll blame Ed Sheeran for it.  They gave that scene the Arya emotion, here she puts on her 'Hound-badass' look and treats an old friend like shit for no reason.  Only until Hot Pie mentions her home does Arya snap out of it and come around.  The main problem with this is that the Lannister soldiers should have all been murdered by new Arya, regardless of their homely stories and Hot Pie should have been given the wary but friendly response.

It's obvious why they switched them and it's not a story reason.

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2 minutes ago, The Knight in Motley said:

I'll agree that it was emotionless, and I'll blame Ed Sheeran for it.  They gave that scene the Arya emotion, here she puts on her 'Hound-badass' look and treats an old friend like shit for no reason.  Only until Hot Pie mentions her home does Arya snap out of it and come around.  The main problem with this is that the Lannister soldiers should have all been murdered by new Arya, regardless of their homely stories and Hot Pie should have been given the wary but friendly response.

It's obvious why they switched them and it's not a story reason.

Good point! Though I can't blame Ed Sheeran entirely. I liked his singing in the e1.

Hot Pie was literally the first friend Arya met since season 4 or smth (except for the actress, probably), so her reaction or the lack of it doesn't make any sense to me.

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7 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

may be considered nitpicking, but do you all remember when Stannis attempted to acquire a loan from the Iron Bank, but he was quickly put in his place when asked about the amount of resources at his disposal on Dragonstone?

Dany shows up at an empty Dragonstone, meaning no smallfolk working the fields, or tending to livestock, or fishing.  Meanwhile, Cersei and Jaime discuss their need for resources to feed the city and their army now that the Tyrells have jumped ship.  Cut to Tyrion discussing a protracted siege of King's Landing to starve them out (also a lot of suffering for the smallfolk who don't deserve to be burned, but clearly deserve to be starved).

what about feeding Dany's Unsullied army?  or the Dothraki (who have yet to make an appearance)? or even the Dragons?  they will have no choice but to pillage their way across the continent, regardless of destination.  or, more than likely, this will never be addressed and everything will work out perfectly for Dany because reasons.

 

 

This is not nitpicking...it's a major plot hole.  Dany's army has no resources that we know of and are planning prolonged campaigns in two different parts of the continent.  Its stupid writing.  They just crossed an ocean and landed on a fairly desolate spot that seems to have been abandoned, and the interior has been already ravaged by war.  How on earth are they feeding their army and horses?

Also, can't agree more about the siege vs direct assault on Kings Landing, and it is something I thought of too while watching the show.  So the writers want us to think Dany is merciful by not attacking the city directly because that would result in lots of civilian casualties, but they want us to be perfectly fine with them laying seige, which would affect the small folk way more than the hierarchy and probably result in more civilian deaths in the long run.  

Nothing about their plan to conquer Westeros makes sense if you think about it at any depth below surface level.  This show has been off the rails for two seasons plus now.  Thank god for this thread, it makes the experience of watching it much more enjoyable knowing that others are seeing through the maddening inconsistencies and plot holes.

 

P.S.  if they were planning to re-introduce Nymeria they absolutely needed to have a scene two seasons ago with Arya dreaming a wolf-dream and another last season where she slowly understands her connection to the dire wolf.  This scene when they did reintroduce Nymeria should have been done as her sleeping by her campfire, dreaming a wolf dream, then awakened by the sound of the wolves approaching.  It would have added more depth to her character and more substance to the reintroduction, and would have been a more interesting scene than the wolf just wandering up, sniffing her a bit and leaving with her pack.  Also...I don't care if CGI fur is expensive, this is the most popular show on tv and a pop culture phenomenon.  Either spend the cash and have dire wolves in the show or don't bother at all.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

 

-Cersei's speech is like an insult to intelligence. HA HA HA. "She is a monster, I'm a protector". "Do you want her?!"

 

and even hot pie knows she blew up the sept of baelor with thousands of nobles inside
you have to turn off your brain to watch this show. good thing most people apparently already have it turned off by default

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Something that bothered my about the argument between "Saint" Tyrion and Ellaria Sand is when Tyrion called her out on poisoning Myrcella, he seems to forget that his family, Joff and Cersei had Robert's illegit children hunted down and murdered, including the slitting of little newborn baby Bara in Little Finger's brothel. Then again, Lannisters always think they are worth more than anyone else, even their Bastards.

Tyrion knew about the Bastards being hunted down and slaughtered as that was brought up when he was looking for a reason to send Janos Slynt away in order to wrest Harrenhal away from him.

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22 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Something that bothered my about the argument between "Saint" Tyrion and Ellaria Sand is when Tyrion called her out on poisoning Myrcella, he seems to forget that his family,

Very good point, it looks like that the hand of the queen position is more important than his family and his ethics now, shitty writing from D&D

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