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[Spoilers] Rant and Rave with Impunity


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Awesome episode! 

 

Good Parts

  1. Jorah and Sam were good.  This is an improvement from the five minutes of wasted screen time watching Sam cleaning chamber pots last week. 
  2. Daenerys and Melisandre.  Beautiful acting from Emilia, Carice, and Natalie.  And the three ladies all have pleasing voices.  Emilia gives Daenerys a regal bearing that is very fitting for a ruler.  She looks every bit the Queen.  She fits the part of ruling monarch very well.
  3. Daenerys and Varys.  Wonderful scene.
  4. Small Council on Dragonstone.  The confrontation between Ellaria Sand and Tyrion Lannister.  I am glad Tyrion is letting Myrcella's death pass rather than seek revenge.  Oberyn fought for Tyrion.
  5. Battle at sea. 
  6. Daenerys and the QoT.  Yes the QoT is bent on vengeance but her advice to Dany, to be a dragon, is a good one.  You can't beat Cersei without being more aggressive. 
  7. Greyworm and Missandei.  It's a rare moment of tenderness.

 

Bad Parts

  1. Too much precious minutes spent on Arya.  I am not interested in Arya at all.  Never have been.  And that scene with hotpie was a waste of time that could have been better used on the people at Dragonstone.
  2. Sansa, Jon, and Littlefinger.  C'mon, Petyr.  Make your move and stop playing around.  Stop blowing smoke.  I think what we're getting here is Sansa Lite.  She's supposed to be worse in the books but HBO is too scared to write her as a villain.
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4 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Awesome episode! 

 

Good Parts

  1. Jorah and Sam were good.  This is an improvement from the five minutes of wasted screen time watching Sam cleaning chamber pots last week. 
  2. Daenerys and Melisandre.  Beautiful acting from Emilia, Carice, and Natalie.  And the three ladies all have pleasing voices.  Emilia gives Daenerys a regal bearing that is very fitting for a ruler.  She looks every bit the Queen.  She fits the part of ruling monarch very well.
  3. Daenerys and Varys.  Wonderful scene.
  4. Small Council on Dragonstone.  The confrontation between Ellaria Sand and Tyrion Lannister.  I am glad Tyrion is letting Myrcella's death pass rather than seek revenge.  Oberyn fought for Tyrion.
  5. Battle at sea. 
  6. Daenerys and the QoT.  Yes the QoT is bent on vengeance but her advice to Dany, to be a dragon, is a good one.  You can't beat Cersei without being more aggressive. 
  7. Greyworm and Missandei.  It's a rare moment of tenderness.

 

Bad Parts

  1. Too much precious minutes spent on Arya.  I am not interested in Arya at all.  Never have been.  And that scene with hotpie was a waste of time that could have been better used on the people at Dragonstone.
  2. Sansa, Jon, and Littlefinger.  C'mon, Petyr.  Make your move and stop playing around.  Stop blowing smoke.  I think what we're getting here is Sansa Lite.  She's supposed to be worse in the books but HBO is too scared to write her as a villain.

To be fair oberyn fought to kill the mountain. He didn't really care about tyrion but just saw his opportunity to kill the mountain and took it. I really wished tyrion had pointed that out

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7 hours ago, Davros Seaworth said:

What makes you think what happens to the wolves and dragons in the show will affect what happens to them in the books?

Other than that I agree with you.

Agreed. The books have no budget.

Dire wolves die because CGI is expensive. They need all of the budget for dragons.

Nymeria's fizzle of a scene that is meant to justify not showing her again was boring and disappointing. Given the final book was originally called, "A Time for Wolves" it's a shame they've not used the wolves for the symbolic reasons they were intended for.

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On 28/07/2017 at 3:17 PM, Rockroi said:

Oh, and its fucking stupid that the Lannister Master-Plan for killing Dragons is "Hit it with a really large cross-bow."  

You know they fly, right?  And shoot fire?  Try hitting a moving, flying, fire-breathing target sometimes.  Its kinda hard. 

Got a better idea? I don't!

I think it's OK. If you don't reveal your secret weapons before you have the right shot, you might be able to get one dragon before they realise anything is even a threat to them. After that, you could at least force them to keep moving, reducing their ability to do so much damage. Besides, archers often shoot down ravens, and Bard the Bowman managed to shoot down Smaug with a bow and only a tiny target to aim at. If it's good enough for Tolkien...

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8 minutes ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

Got a better idea? I don't!

I think it's OK. If you don't reveal your secret weapons before you have the right shot, you might be able to get one dragon before they realise anything is even a threat to them. After that, you could at least force them to keep moving, reducing their ability to do so much damage. Besides, archers often shoot down ravens, and Bard the Bowman managed to shoot down Smaug with a bow and only a tiny target to aim at. If it's good enough for Tolkien...

They are a few other ways that could potentially rid or kill a dragon.

  • Spears - (as said and seen in show)
  • Other dragons - either turn the dragons against each other or find other dragons
  • Dragonbinder - use dragons against each other (maybe why Euron has been brought into the show)
  • Wildfire - use as an explosive to know it to the ground and then strike with weapons to kill
  • Cold weather - plausible they could struggle.
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15 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

They are a few other ways that could potentially rid or kill a dragon.

  • Spears - (as said and seen in show)
  • Other dragons - either turn the dragons against each other or find other dragons
  • Dragonbinder - use dragons against each other (maybe why Euron has been brought into the show)
  • Wildfire - use as an explosive to know it to the ground and then strike with weapons to kill
  • Cold weather - plausible they could struggle.

OK, but as much as flying makes it hard to shoot them with a ballista, that's a bigger problem for spears.

Other dragons, Dragonbinder and cold weather are not currently available. Wildfire might help. But any of these could be used in conjunction with Qyburn's anti-dragon bolts. I think they need to take any option they can get. Train ravens to peck dragon's eyes out if you have to!

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1 minute ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

OK, but as much as flying makes it hard to shoot them with a ballista, that's a bigger problem for spears.

Other dragons, Dragonbinder and cold weather are not currently available. Wildfire might help. But any of these could be used in conjunction with Qyburn's anti-dragon bolts. I think they need to take any option they can get. Train ravens to peck dragon's eyes out if you have to!

By spears i mean a ballista. I agree its not going to be as simple as shooting a stationary target,youve got 3 flying dragons to shoot down. The ideas were speculation. I really just dont think thats its going to be as simple as banging a spear fired by a ballista through its head, I think Qyburns got more up his sleeves. Its like the WW walking round the Wall on the frozen bay of seals, it literally cant be as simple as that.

 

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We have had only two out of seven episodes in S7. So, still time for improvement. My résumé so far,based also on what has already been written in this thread (though I admit not having read all of it) is:

Compared to the previous Show (S1 to S6):

  • the quality of dialogues and scenes has suffered
    • the only good dialogue in S7 until now IMHO was the one in E1 between Cersei and Jaime
  • illogical things (within the frame of GRRM's fantasy world of Westeros) have been introduced/used at a higher rate than before.
  • especially in the view that S7 and S8 have less episodes each to tell the story and that the end is near and still a lot to tell: useless scenes (i.e. not advancing the story) or unneccessaryily extended scenes are more and more often seen.
    • admittedly this already started in S6 (e.g. drinking game and joke telling dialogue with Tyrion)
  • crucial characters have become totally unconvincing, while the careful development of the main characters and their typical Actions, way of thinking etc. is the core of the Story. GRRM put great effort in developing these, and I feel that until S6 the authors of the Show tried to respect that. Well not always successfully, see for example the ridiculous end Stannis found (the most experienced military leader in Westeros). But what the writers intend with Littlefinger and Sansa - only the gods know. I assume, they are either stupid or never read the books. In my opinion they wrecked Dany's council as well. Looks like Tyrion has lost his wits and cock while sailing (a travel lasting weeks or months) from Mereen to Dragonstone, and all the council played Rommé or whatsoever during that voyage, but for sure did not do any planning. Let us settle our military targets and moral imperatives once we are on Dragonstone, they seem to have said.
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15 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Awesome episode! 

 

Good Parts

  1. Jorah and Sam were good.  This is an improvement from the five minutes of wasted screen time watching Sam cleaning chamber pots last week. 
  2. Daenerys and Melisandre.  Beautiful acting from Emilia, Carice, and Natalie.  And the three ladies all have pleasing voices.  Emilia gives Daenerys a regal bearing that is very fitting for a ruler.  She looks every bit the Queen.  She fits the part of ruling monarch very well.
  3. Daenerys and Varys.  Wonderful scene.
  4. Small Council on Dragonstone.  The confrontation between Ellaria Sand and Tyrion Lannister.  I am glad Tyrion is letting Myrcella's death pass rather than seek revenge.  Oberyn fought for Tyrion.
  5. Battle at sea. 
  6. Daenerys and the QoT.  Yes the QoT is bent on vengeance but her advice to Dany, to be a dragon, is a good one.  You can't beat Cersei without being more aggressive. 
  7. Greyworm and Missandei.  It's a rare moment of tenderness.

 

Bad Parts

  1. Too much precious minutes spent on Arya.  I am not interested in Arya at all.  Never have been.  And that scene with hotpie was a waste of time that could have been better used on the people at Dragonstone.
  2. Sansa, Jon, and Littlefinger.  C'mon, Petyr.  Make your move and stop playing around.  Stop blowing smoke.  I think what we're getting here is Sansa Lite.  She's supposed to be worse in the books but HBO is too scared to write her as a villain.

Sansa is most definitely NOT worse in the books.  She is nothing like show Sansa!  She has grown and is an empathic person. Her character in the books is a million years away from the show.  Apart from the early seasons the arc in the books is completely different to the show and so so much better.   

Try reading the book.  They are canon. Not this badly written fan fiction

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32 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

By spears i mean a ballista. I agree its not going to be as simple as shooting a stationary target,youve got 3 flying dragons to shoot down. The ideas were speculation. I really just dont think thats its going to be as simple as banging a spear fired by a ballista through its head, I think Qyburns got more up his sleeves. Its like the WW walking round the Wall on the frozen bay of seals, it literally cant be as simple as that.

 

Realistically, there would be absolutely no way to shoot down a flying dragon with that ballista/crossbow weapon. How quickly can one rotate and aim that machine, not to mention calculate the correct trajectory?

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5 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

By spears i mean a ballista. I agree its not going to be as simple as shooting a stationary target,youve got 3 flying dragons to shoot down. The ideas were speculation. I really just dont think thats its going to be as simple as banging a spear fired by a ballista through its head, I think Qyburns got more up his sleeves. Its like the WW walking round the Wall on the frozen bay of seals, it literally cant be as simple as that.

 

I think that the WW will bring the wall down not go around it. Otherwise why not just go through the mountains that the wall stops out. Also I have to believe that those people shooting ballista's aren't gonna be that close to a dragon (like cersei and qyburn were) and as bones get older they get more brittle and easier to break and that skull had been there for over a century.  That said it is TV so they are either gonna be useless with it or more accurate then modern day snipers.

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5 hours ago, Monster_Under_the_Bed said:

Realistically, there would be absolutely no way to shoot down a flying dragon with that ballista/crossbow weapon. How quickly can one rotate and aim that machine, not to mention calculate the correct trajectory?

In the game of thrones world it has been done before. That said if you shoot a thousand arrows your bound to hit something. I think realistically it would be your eventually gonna hit something but the problem is in the meantime your gonna get roasted by a dragon

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5 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

OK, but as much as flying makes it hard to shoot them with a ballista, that's a bigger problem for spears.

Other dragons, Dragonbinder and cold weather are not currently available. Wildfire might help. But any of these could be used in conjunction with Qyburn's anti-dragon bolts. I think they need to take any option they can get. Train ravens to peck dragon's eyes out if you have to!

I really hope they don't bring dragonbinder into the show. They haven't done anything to introduce it and it would seem so stupid to do it now since magic has been downplayed in the show

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4 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

I think that the WW will bring the wall down not go around it. Otherwise why not just go through the mountains that the wall stops out. Also I have to believe that those people shooting ballista's aren't gonna be that close to a dragon (like cersei and qyburn were) and as bones get older they get more brittle and easier to break and that skull had been there for over a century.  That said it is TV so they are either gonna be useless with it or more accurate then modern day snipers.

I'm unsure what to do, I cant see it being that easy that they just walk round and all they have waited 8000 years for is a winter so harsh to freeze the water. It will be such an epic moment if the full wall comes down but I;m not so sure, i'm inclined to say that a part of it will come down and not all.

Yeah there is no way they will ever get that close, if they do they'll already be dead. They are going to need a couple of hundred of them if they even stand a chance of bringing down 1 of the dragons. Yeah its guna be a disappointment or it will be all to unrealistic, I think Qyburn as said will have some other things in the pipeline.

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3 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I'm unsure what to do, I cant see it being that easy that they just walk round and all they have waited 8000 years for is a winter so harsh to freeze the water. It will be such an epic moment if the full wall comes down but I;m not so sure, i'm inclined to say that a part of it will come down and not all.

Yeah there is no way they will ever get that close, if they do they'll already be dead. They are going to need a couple of hundred of them if they even stand a chance of bringing down 1 of the dragons. Yeah its guna be a disappointment or it will be all to unrealistic, I think Qyburn as said will have some other things in the pipeline.

Yeah it will probably be a piece of the wall not the entire thing.

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1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

In the game of thrones world it has been done before. That said if you shoot a thousand arrows your bound to hit something. I think realistically it would be your eventually gonna hit something but the problem is in the meantime your gonna get roasted by a dragon

I doubt that it's feasible for them to make a thousand of these machines. Even if they could do it, their practical efficiency would be much lower.

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16 hours ago, Monster_Under_the_Bed said:

Realistically, there would be absolutely no way to shoot down a flying dragon with that ballista/crossbow weapon. How quickly can one rotate and aim that machine, not to mention calculate the correct trajectory?

Meraxes supposedly died in exactly the same way, so it doesn't seem impossible.

The way I see it, the dragons have to find a balance between constantly moving to avoid getting shot down, and achieving their objectives in battle, which requires hovering. Remember when they burnt a few ships in Meereen? They hovered over the ship to attack and took a few seconds to properly destroy it. They don't seem to be able to "strafe" like a plane if they want to do real damage. Dragons seem much more like helicopters, and people have shot enough of those down over the years without guided missiles. So every time they slow down to attack a major target, you shoot bolts at them. You probably don't hit them, but you force them to keep moving instead of attacking. Maybe you cause a small injury and slow them down.

People also shoot birds with bows. People in Westeros seem to be able to reliably shoot down ravens sent from besieged castles (i.e. they make plans that rely on the fact a raven won't make it through) and you'd only get one or two shots before the raven was too far away to hit.

I don't think these machines have solved the dragon problem. Unless they've got more options available, the odds are still not in Cersei and Qyburn's favour. But they're definitely better with the ballistae than without.

 

What about poison? Would a normal bodkin-type arrow pierce a dragon's skin? If not, could you design something small enough to shoot en masse that will pierce the skin or cause a scratch enough to poison the dragons?

 

12 hours ago, snow is the man said:

I think that the WW will bring the wall down not go around it. Otherwise why not just go through the mountains that the wall stops out. Also I have to believe that those people shooting ballista's aren't gonna be that close to a dragon (like cersei and qyburn were) and as bones get older they get more brittle and easier to break and that skull had been there for over a century.  That said it is TV so they are either gonna be useless with it or more accurate then modern day snipers.

Yeah, range is an important point that I haven't seen anyone else mention so far. If you shoot down a dragon, it's probably going to be from a few hundred metres away at least. Is it powerful enough at those kinds of ranges? On the other hand, as I said, Meraxes was killed with a ballista, so if the same design is available they're probably OK.

And if the WW aren't going to use magic to get past the Wall, I'd be very surprised. And I think it probably will come down, just because it feels as if the Wall was never a solution, only a temporary measure.

17 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:
  • crucial characters have become totally unconvincing, while the careful development of the main characters and their typical Actions, way of thinking etc. is the core of the Story. GRRM put great effort in developing these, and I feel that until S6 the authors of the Show tried to respect that. Well not always successfully, see for example the ridiculous end Stannis found (the most experienced military leader in Westeros). But what the writers intend with Littlefinger and Sansa - only the gods know. I assume, they are either stupid or never read the books. In my opinion they wrecked Dany's council as well. Looks like Tyrion has lost his wits and cock while sailing (a travel lasting weeks or months) from Mereen to Dragonstone, and all the council played Rommé or whatsoever during that voyage, but for sure did not do any planning. Let us settle our military targets and moral imperatives once we are on Dragonstone, they seem to have said.

Littlefinger is a big disappointment so far. What is he doing? Why is he not constantly inserting himself into meetings and making himself invaluable? That's what he does. He said he wants the Iron Throne, so what is he doing to achieve that? He also said he wants Sansa, so maybe he thinks he can convince her by appearing to turn over a new leaf, but he's not trying very hard.

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