thequicksilverthings

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave with Impunity

265 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, twilight said:

 I really don't understand why this show is so popular.

Thanks to the first 4 seasons and partly season 5, which were mostly based on the books with unexpected plottwists and quite well thought throught plot. I suppose that now people just want to see who of the fan favorites (read as: Jon, Dany and Tyrion) ends up on the throne...

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2 minutes ago, ummester said:

But a man who is no-one declared Arya no-one - her character is breaking a whole religion, it's breaking the logic of the world she inhabits. One does not simply stop being no-one :)

And, even if I accept what you suggest, that Arya is on the start of some kind of redemption - she has already gone too far, she does not deserve redemption. It's not that she took revenge, so much - it's the cruelty of her acts. She gouged a guys eyes out, cooked 2 guys, wore the skin of a third guy - she never had an excuse for the cruelty. Jamie pushed a kid out a window for love - it's not nice, but it wasn't cruel and he had his own twisted excuse - Arya has nothing, she went totally off the deep end.

Like the guy above me just posted, she was never No One. She is in between, with certain souvenirs like Needle, or now the mention of her family, bringing her back from 'the other side'. It's piss poor writing and hard to realize but I think that's what theyre going for. As for cruelty, it was all on her list and I think George will show it better, how young minds can be affected via war and change Although the show will probably make it a cheesy reunion with Sansa and they'll defeat Littlefinger together one way or another because WOMAN POWER

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2 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

Stormy Dragonstone is stormy.  It is fairly ridiculous for the conversation between Varys and Daenerys to happen now – better to have had this last season. 

This and the scene with Melisandre: So.  Much. Exposition. So. Much. Fan-Service.  

So - Qyburn's working on a giant bow (hello, Tolkien) – no-one ever thought of one of those before?  Really?

Tyrion speaks and they all nod like little nodding dogs. 

MissWorm sexytimes - such a waste of screen time.

Over to the Citadel.  "Possibly something a bit more poetic." – like A Song of Ice and Fire?  So predictable.

Close-ups of pus transitioning to close-up of pie filling.  What is wrong with these writers?

I looked forward to seeing Arya and Hot Pie, and yet they managed to turn that into a cold, exposition fest too.  She had more to say to and more smiles for the Lannister soldiers than Hot Pie.

Another scene of Sandra being an arse but funny how she stops complaining about Jon going to Dragonstone when he leaves her in charge.  Lots of stupid, significant looks are exchanged.  There’s just no subtlety in this writing.  And I can’t even be bothered with the stupidity of LF goading Jon in the crypts.

I did get chills when Arya came face to face with Nymeria – but the SFX were really quite poor, which is a shame.  There seems little point in doing this scene to reintroduce Nymeria unless she and her pack reappear later in the series, maybe season 8? (Probably just so D&D can kill her off.) 

WHERE IS GHOST?

More Sand Snake excrement.  Okay, it’s possible I might have given a little squeak of approval to the two Sand Snakes dying.  Does this make me a bad person? :lol:

I don't really understand how a ship that big can sneak up on another unless there's heavy fog, which there wasn't.  Why do they always have to break a viewer's suspension of disbelief?  Euron is another incarnation of Ramsay - so dull.

I’m not sure what I think about Theon charging into the fray to fight, and then becoming Reek again.  Not really believable for me.

Perhaps disbelief is the theme for this ep.

Agree with pretty much everything. If liking the sight of dead sandsnakes makes you a bad person, then I am one too because I hope the last sandsnake and her mother die a violent death next week. The former for being an annoying non-character (what is her personality besides "she likes to fuck and fight"?) that wastes screentime (just like her sisters - good riddance to both of them) and the latter for impersonating an interesting side character from the books and more importantly, for stealing and corrupting Arianne Martell's storyline and for being one of the main reasons she was adapted out. But hey, we had a cutesy love story between characters that were supposed to be children that went ultimately nowhere because they both died without adding anything to the story - that was worth it, wasn't it? 

Now, I've never thought I'd say this, but show Euron is growing on me. Of course he'll never be the real Euron (that ship has sailed because of last year), but really, in this episode he was almost...okay? Him killing sandsnakes certainly helped, naturally, and the mad quality of his character is starting to come to light and he doesn't take himself too seriously, which in this show, is a positive. 

BUT HOW IN HOLY HELL DID HE FIND THEM? Seriously, they should have renamed this show Game of Plot Convenience years ago, because it's through the roof in it. 

Anyway, I don't have too much to say about this one, nothing really upset me, it's just so bland, so by the numbers. Everything is going in a way that was fairly predictable, and judging from next week's preview, it's gonna be the case for the whole season. 

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2 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

She never was "no one" like a true Faceless Man is supposed to be. Arya failed most of the tests by never fully being able to let go of her identity as Arya Stark.

Identity has always been a HUGE part of Arya's character arc. She didn't do a total about face in today's episode at all. Indeed she was quite distant to Hot Pie and her actions in the Inn were VERY reminiscent of the Hound. 

After Hot Pie gave Arya the new information (Jon beating the Boltons, taking back Winterfell and being proclaimed King in the North), Arya was presented with a choice - continue her plan to kill Cersei or reunite with her family in Winterfell. I think Maisie did a fantastic job of conveying the internal conflict within Arya over this decision. She eventually chose to head North and reunite with her family - but that does NOT mean all her deeds are forgotten or she is somehow going to morph into some other person. Arya has always had love for her family and also has shown empathy and compassion to people. This has been shown numerous times throughout the series (and even more in the books). However, Arya is also vengeful and merciless to her enemies. 

The sequence with Nymeria also suggests that settling back into Winterfell and life of just being a Stark will not be easy for Arya. Just as Nymeria will not be tamed and go back to being someone's pet, Arya will likely have a difficult time fitting in and having other people calling the shots.

But see my post above - Arya has committed acts as cruel as the shows villains like Joffrey and Ramsay, is she really suitable for redemption?

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Liked:

  • Arya’s reunion with Nymeria. Paying attention to the music, only half the Stark theme plays indicating that Arya’s not a true a Stark yet.
  • Jorah’s greyscale pus. Looked like caramel. (On a side note, I’m hungry).

Disliked:

  • Missandei initiating sex with a genital-less Grey Worm. Reminds me of Ramsay saying to Theon, ‘When you think about naked girls, do you feel an itch?’ There’s nothing else Greyworm can do except go down on her. She would have known that.
  • Melisandre slutting around Westeros with her “prince that was promised” shit.

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1 minute ago, Hear Me Roar!! said:

Like the guy above me just posted, she was never No One. She is in between, with certain souvenirs like Needle, or now the mention of her family, bringing her back from 'the other side'. It's piss poor writing and hard to realize but I think that's what theyre going for. As for cruelty, it was all on her list and I think George will show it better, how young minds can be affected via war and change Although the show will probably make it a cheesy reunion with Sansa and they'll defeat Littlefinger together one way or another because WOMAN POWER

If she was never no-one, why did a man who is no-one tell her that now she is no-one?

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I'm a bit nervous to ask this, but was that weird half-wave between Jon and Sansa supposed to harken back to virtually the same scene with Jaime and Brienne from last season?

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We're getting too many No Ones now :D

She denied it though - she clearly stated she was Arya Stark of Winterfell, and there were some speculations on this forum that he said it just to seem like it was all part of the plan although the brotherhood screwed up. Like I said, there are certain triggers now that snap Arya back. Could it have been showed better ? Yes, although I'll give credits to Maisie Williams for capturing the struggle perfectly for what she was given to work with.

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Did Greyscale!Jorah look like a cream-filled chocolate to anyone else? I was like, yeah Sam, get that Lindt. 

I honestly don't know what else I can say about the show at this point. Nothing makes sense anymore, the dialogue is either recaps/exposition or terribly uninspired (like the convo between Missandei and Greyworm) and the characters have been reduced to cliches and plot points. Like, look at Tyrion, for example. He's a cypher, devoid of any personality or energy. 

D&D aren't even trying anymore. I don't know who gives less fucks about the series, them or GRRM. 

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1 minute ago, ummester said:

But see my post above - Arya has committed acts as cruel as the shows villains like Joffrey and Ramsay, is she really suitable for redemption?

Yes.

You mentioned her unforgivable acts of cruelty as: 

*Gouging a guys eyes out - well this was Ser Meryn Trant and she didn't gouge his eyes out - she stabbed him in the eyes with a knife to blind him and weaken him so she could kill him. That was a practical choice so she could defeat someone older, bigger and stronger than her - I don't consider that action cruel.

*Baking two men into pies - ok this I will give you was cruelty and in the books Arya never did this. This was a pure fan service choice by D&D to give this action to Arya and frankly it didn't make any sense for her character. Arya is not a character who had ever shown cruelty - she had shown to be someone who is tough and will stand up for herself and her family and friends.

* Wore the skin of a third guy -if you are talking about Walder Frey, wearing his face wasn't an act of cruelty, it was part of the secret of the Faceless Men disguise.

So no, Arya is not at all beyond redemption.

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I didn't have the time to post my random thoughts earlier. I'm sure everything has been said by others, and better, but a girl needs to rant anyway.


Dany questioning Varys: It's ridiculous that this conversation didn't take place BEFORE she accepted Varys' service. And he didn't answer the question about Viserys, instead he gave this monologue, which apparently satisfied her. Too dumb for words.

Those first 13 minutes of cheesy dialogue (Dany/ Varys/ Tyrion/ Mel) were very painful to watch. And it didn't get much better.

Grrrl power: Go to Westeros without any kind of war strategy. then have St Tyrion tell you what to do and parrot what he says. Hmmm, Casterly Rock must be taken because it's been the seat of Lannister power... I see. Surely a much better plan than to quickly conquer the capital, get rid of the usurper queen who blew up the vatican that all the peole loved and charm the commonfolk by being a nicer queen than Cersei (easy task), plus dragons. Poor Olenna. But then she probably doesn't care anymore.

Sandra's objections against Jon instantly went out the window when Jon left business to her for the time of his absence. That was hilarious.

LF is long past his expiration date. Why exactly is he talking to Jon right before he leaves and will conveniently be out of the way?

Liked Nymeria, great acting by Maisie (and the wolf). But do direwolves roar like lions?

The Arya/ Hot Pie reunion was very disappointing.

One short sandworms scene ("Maamaa!") and I want them dead. So, nothing new. Thank you, anachronistic-looking pirate wannabe, for taking out two2 of them. speaking of...

Grrrl power 2: Make out with another girl when you should be preparing for battle. Have no crew watch your back, no outlook. Also, make out in front of man, because lesbianism for men is awesome.
Gods, I love me some feminism.

Ellaria to Yara: Hey, you must visit Dorne some day. Great booze, only about 20 subjects, but lots of fucking and fighting, and everyone is a-okay with kin/g/slaying these days. Speaking of fucking, may I f--- your tits off? Ah, sooo empowered.

So the maesters at the Citadel have been able to cure Greyscale all along, they just didn't feel like doing it? And nobody knew and made a riot? Then how did Jorah know? And what is the point, dramatically, for this whole Jorah/ Greyscale plot?

 

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2 minutes ago, Hear Me Roar!! said:

We're getting too many No Ones now :D

She denied it though - she clearly stated she was Arya Stark of Winterfell, and there were some speculations on this forum that he said it just to seem like it was all part of the plan although the brotherhood screwed up. Like I said, there are certain triggers now that snap Arya back. Could it have been showed better ? Yes, although I'll give credits to Maisie Williams for capturing the struggle perfectly for what she was given to work with.

It's all confusing to me. This whole "she is no one" thing. On one hand, she clearly never was no one, because she never abandoned her morals or she never forgot what happened to her. Hell she had a whole list of names that she wanted to kill becuase they wronged her. On the other hand, Jaqen had been telling her from the begininng that she can cross those names off her list if she learned from the faceless men. So are the faceless men really "no ones" or is it more of a philosophy rather than a literal abandonment of one's personality?

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7 minutes ago, ummester said:

If she was never no-one, why did a man who is no-one tell her that now she is no-one?

Because bad storytelling is bad storytelling. The show runners either didn't understand Arya's story in Braavos and the HoBaW or they just didn't care.

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Just now, Dolorous Gabe said:

Because bad storytelling is bad storytelling. The show runners either didn't understand Arya's story in Braavos and the HoBaW or they just didn't care.

Well that's it - for Arya's character arc to not be broken, the faceless men as a plot device must be. They can't both be logically functioning at this point.

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1 minute ago, The Boastful Knight said:

It's all confusing to me. This whole "she is no one" thing. On one hand, she clearly never was no one, because she never abandoned her morals or she never forgot what happened to her. Hell she had a whole list of names that she wanted to kill becuase they wronged her. On the other hand, Jaqen had been telling her from the begininng that she can cross those names off her list if she learned from the faceless men. So are the faceless men really "no ones" or is it more of a philosophy rather than a literal abandonment of one's personality?

No, Jaquen punished her for crossing off one name off the list, namely Meryn Trant, that's why she got blinded as she wasn't ready; he said they're the instruments in the hands of the Many Faced God, and they serve and not choose themselves. I always thought that they fully rejected their personality in order to be able to wear faces of others, but maybe I'm wrong and it's a simple trick or the show effed up.

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Just now, Good Guy Garlan said:

Did Greyscale!Jorah look like a cream-filled chocolate to anyone else? I was like, yeah Sam, get that Lindt. 

I honestly don't know what else I can say about the show at this point. Nothing makes sense anymore, the dialogue is either recaps/exposition or terribly uninspired (like the convo between Missandei and Greyworm) and the characters have been reduced to cliches and plot points. Like, look at Tyrion, for example. He's a cypher, devoid of any personality or energy. 

Yeah...

I have a copy of the first draft of the episode:

"Did you read the Wiki about the earlier episodes my queen?"

"Couldn't be stuffed. What happened last season?"

"All of the boring Dorne and Iron Islands stuff."

"Wouldn't it be awesome if we stopped focusing on the deep, rich lore and characters and had a one-dimensional villain portrayed by an over actor?"

"Meh, whatever. Just put some boobs in, it'll rate."

Scene Change

Explosions.

Cut to black.

End.

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1 minute ago, Yukle said:

Yeah...

I have a copy of the first draft of the episode:

"Did you read the Wiki about the earlier episodes my queen?"

"Couldn't be stuffed. What happened last season?"

"All of the boring Dorne and Iron Islands stuff."

"Wouldn't it be awesome if we stopped focusing on the deep, rich lore and characters and had a one-dimensional villain portrayed by an over actor?"

"Meh, whatever. Just put some boobs in, it'll rate."

Scene Change

Explosions.

Cut to black.

End.

Perfect.

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Just now, Hear Me Roar!! said:

No, Jaquen punished her for crossing off one name off the list, namely Meryn Trant, that's why she got blinded as she wasn't ready; he said they're the instruments in the hands of the Many Faced God, and they serve and not choose themselves. I always thought that they fully rejected their personality in order to be able to wear faces of others, but maybe I'm wrong and it's a simple trick or the show effed up.

But he also said to her: "If you would learn you must come with me… The girl has many names on her lips: Cersei, Joffrey, Tywin Lannister, Ilyn Payne, the Hound. Names to offer the Red God. She could offer them all… One by one." So which is it?

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4 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

Yes.

You mentioned her unforgivable acts of cruelty as: 

*Gouging a guys eyes out - well this was Ser Meryn Trant and she didn't gouge his eyes out - she stabbed him in the eyes with a knife to blind him and weaken him so she could kill him. That was a practical choice so she could defeat someone older, bigger and stronger than her - I don't consider that action cruel.

*Baking two men into pies - ok this I will give you was cruelty and in the books Arya never did this. This was a pure fan service choice by D&D to give this action to Arya and frankly it didn't make any sense for her character. Arya is not a character who had ever shown cruelty - she had shown to be someone who is tough and will stand up for herself and her family and friends.

* Wore the skin of a third guy -if you are talking about Walder Frey, wearing his face wasn't an act of cruelty, it was part of the secret of the Faceless Men disguise.

So no, Arya is not at all beyond redemption.

She also sided with Lady Crane who damaged the face of the woman who had a hit on her.

She slid her sword slowly into the neck of a man who admittedly slid it slowly into the neck of a child - but there is a difference between just or quick revenge and cruel revenge.

Show Arya has acted as cruel as Ramsay or Joffrey - it's just that people liked her at the start that they are willing to forgive what she has done, which is a bit hypocritical.

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1 minute ago, The Boastful Knight said:

But he also said to her: "If you would learn you must come with me… The girl has many names on her lips: Cersei, Joffrey, Tywin Lannister, Ilyn Payne, the Hound. Names to offer the Red God. She could offer them all… One by one." So which is it?

See this is why I hate that they didn't introduce the Kindly Man from the book - Jaquen from Season 2 is not the same as Jaquen from Season 5/6, Jaquen does not exist. The man who takes his face is no one, the series just made it Jaquen again so that the dumbed Unsullied could correlate the two facts.

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