Marvel Cinematic General Discussion 7

[Slurktan]

4 hours ago, Eggegg said:

 

If there were any faults it was possibly the Asgard plot which was that enthralling. Oh and Valkirie who stood out as particularly bland amongst a ton of great comedic performances 

To be fair Valkryie is supposed to play the straight man role next to hulk and Thors lunacy.

[mormont]

Tessa Thompson as Valkyrie is terrific. Full stop. Couldn't have been further from being 'bland'. If you can share a screen with Hiddleston as Loki, Ruffalo as Hulk and Hemsworth as Thor and not only not be overwhelmed, but have people praising your performance, you have strong screen presence and good acting chops.

[Eggegg]

2 hours ago, Slurktan said:

To be fair Valkryie is supposed to play the straight man role next to hulk and Thors lunacy.

I'm not sure she was written as a straight man, or that they were any real straight man roles in the movie at all. I do think her character was pretty underwritten and maybe its that they didn't do much with her at all, instead creating a bog standard 'embittered bounty hunter' character that tends to exist in a lot of sci fi, and tacking a backstory onto her that didn't really add anything.

Its just that I didn't see her as believable in any of the character traits she seemed to want to exhibit. Her introduction scene of her drunkenly falling out of her shit was comparatively poorly done, and her constant insistence that she was a hard drinking badass just made her look more like the sort of person who would rather have a G&T and a night in. I'm sure there are plenty of people who could have added something interesting to that role, I just don't think she did.

Anyway its a nit pick as almost everything in the movie was fantastic. 

[Relic]

On 11/9/2017 at 4:54 AM, The Anti-Targ said:

No great loss IMO. While Rogue One was aiight, Episode VII fell flat for me. I'll give Ep VIII a go but if that also misses the mark I think that will be me for Star Wars. I mean, no really good Star Wars movie since Return of the Jedi (and even that was only good at the time because I was a kid, and as a kid I thought Empire Strikes Back was the least good of the OT - so what the hell did I know back then?). And I expect with that cutsey hood ornament everyone was gushing over I will be cringing quite a lot at all the merch placements they throw into the movie.

However you slice it, Fox was going to get several pounds of flesh out of relinquishing the rights to its Marvel characters. But still giving Faux News $2 billion to buy back Marvel and Star Wars rights is better than giving it $5 billion for buying its whole entertainment wing.

End of the day I think I prefer giving my money indirectly to Faux News via a Disney buy out than giving it directly to Faux News by buying movie tickets and Blu Rays. A $5 billion cash injection sticks in the throat a bit, but time will dissolve that bitter pill. Every time I go to a 20CFox movie I always feel a little bit dirty even if the movie is completely brilliant. But corporate culture and capitalism being what it is I should feel a little bit dirty every time I pay for a movie (or Netflix, or...) coming out of one of the Hollywood behemoths.

I sympathise with your intentions and I will not disagree with what you intend to do if this sale goes ahead. But If I am to try to be morally consistent I don't feel for myself that I can draw that kind of line in the sand. I buy cell phones even though I know every cell phone contains minerals mined using terribly abusive child labour practices in Africa, not to mention the abusive labour practices in the manufacturing plants for those phones. I am hopelessly compromised and hypocritical when it comes to my ethical relationship with the world's mega corporations. Having no (or a substantially reduced) ongoing direct financial connection to Faux News is a net positive in my view.

As to the implications of Disney swallowing up all Fox licensed Marvel properties for R-rated Marvel movies, I think that would / will be quite a terrible loss and people will basically be left with Netflix or porn parodies to get any R- and above rated fixes of Marvel entertainment. I would hope that Disney could establish an arms length subsidiary to take forward any R-rated production and thus keep it's family friendly facade and keep delivering R-rated content. Even under Fox there are only a handful of X-men who would ever appear in a Deadpool movie and almost certainly not any of the headline cast.

 

I appreciate your thoughtful and nuanced approach to this. Certainly better than @Trebla's response (which I just don't understand). Anyway, I have a bit of personal history with Newscorp, so im prone to perhapse feel guiltier about supporting Fox than the average person. However, regardless of what people end up doing in terms of financially supporting a horrible company I think we should, at the very least, be aware and honest with ourselves about what we are doing. 

[Calibandar]

9 hours ago, mormont said:

Tessa Thompson as Valkyrie is terrific. Full stop. Couldn't have been further from being 'bland'. If you can share a screen with Hiddleston as Loki, Ruffalo as Hulk and Hemsworth as Thor and not only not be overwhelmed, but have people praising your performance, you have strong screen presence and good acting chops.

Nonsense. She was an annoying little brat throughout the film.

A face of contempt for those around her was the only face we saw. There is nothing to be praised here.

It's all in the way the director sets up the role. She gets to be the haughty girl with the constant sneer, next to Hemsworth who has to perform the idiot version of Thor, and a Hiddleston who leaves a very vanilla impression in this film.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

It's all in the way the director sets up the role. She gets to be the haughty girl with the constant sneer, next to Hemsworth who has to perform the idiot version of Thor, and a Hiddleston who leaves a very vanilla impression in this film.

 I haven't seen the film, so this comment doesn't directly relate to Hemsworth's performance, but idiot Thor is the correct version of Thor, IMHO. If you've read the myths, idiot is at the core of Thor. I realize this isn't always the iteration that Marvel forwards, but it is the most accurate and best version of the character for my money.

[Eggegg]

25 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Nonsense. She was an annoying little brat throughout the film.

A face of contempt for those around her was the only face we saw. There is nothing to be praised here.

It's all in the way the director sets up the role. She gets to be the haughty girl with the constant sneer, next to Hemsworth who has to perform the idiot version of Thor, and a Hiddleston who leaves a very vanilla impression in this film.

 

I think that is a little harsh on her, she was too bland and forgettable induce that sort of irritation from me.

I can see why you might dislike the movie, but as someone who has ZERO attachment to the character or the comics I can say I found it a fantastic movie, and I wish all the marvel movies were set at exactly this tone.

That Dr Strange made an appearance in the movie ( as well as a number of cameos that brought a real smile to my face) made me remember what a turd of a movie that one was, it was a real mis-step that made me worry about Marvel. But Homecoming and Ragnorak have restored my faith.

Fingers crossed for Black Panther, but the trailers so far haven't given me much to work on.

[Rhom]

1 hour ago, Eggegg said:

That Dr Strange made an appearance in the movie ( as well as a number of cameos that brought a real smile to my face) made me remember what a turd of a movie that one was, it was a real mis-step that made me worry about Marvel. But Homecoming and Ragnorak have restored my faith.

Funny.  I loved Dr. Strange and thought Homecoming was okay, but formulaic and dull.  

[3CityApache]

And I liked both Dr. Strange and Homecoming, but really loved Ragnarok.  Not particularly hyped for Black Panther though.

[Eggegg]

I thought Dr Strange was maybe the second worst of all the Marvel movies.. outside of Thor 2. It was so completely formulaic and predictable. The hype for it was that it was Marvel pushing the boundaries, but turns out that outside of a couple of slightly surreal sequences it basically stuck to the tried and tested story, with a bland villain and a sadly not very interesting main character. 

Ragnoraks 5 minutes with Dr Strange were more interesting and better directed than his entire movie I felt. 
 

[mormont]

15 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Nonsense. She was an annoying little brat throughout the film.

A face of contempt for those around her was the only face we saw. There is nothing to be praised here.

It's all in the way the director sets up the role. She gets to be the haughty girl with the constant sneer, next to Hemsworth who has to perform the idiot version of Thor, and a Hiddleston who leaves a very vanilla impression in this film.

Calibandar dislikes female action hero performance: predictable.

[DaveSumm]

Is there any reason Thor doesn't deserve his own spoiler thread? I just ducked back in a few weeks after I was spoiled last time. 

[Eggegg]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

Is there any reason Thor doesn't deserve his own spoiler thread? I just ducked back in a few weeks after I was spoiled last time. 

Its probably a bit late for that now. 

[polishgenius]

19 hours ago, Calibandar said:

A face of contempt for those around her was the only face we saw.

I don't think there's any requirement to think Valkyrie was brilliant- though I thought she was good- but this is just an outright lie.

[The Anti-Targ]

On 11/12/2017 at 8:48 AM, 3CityApache said:

And I liked both Dr. Strange and Homecoming, but really loved Ragnarok.  Not particularly hyped for Black Panther though.

If BP nails the plot as an internal political power struggle for the rule (and future) of Wakanda, it could be one of the best MCU movies yet, at least in terms of story. If I may make so bold, all MCU movies to date have been super hero action movies with a story to hang it all together. BP could be a high stakes political drama with some super hero action. BP could therefore be same same but different to Thor, in that Thor is a comedy with super hero action. BP may be a political drama with super hero action.

I will be disappointed if BP is just an action fest with a loose and not all that interesting story.

In just 2 weekends of release in the USA Ragnarok has surpassed the full US box office runs of both preceding Thor movies. It is also already the number 1 Thor movie world-wide with plenty of legs yet in the international market and lots more money to come in the USA. Inflation adjusted in the USA Ragnarok is already past Thor 1, and by the end of next week it will be past The Dark World on an inflation adjusted basis. It may not make the MCU top 5 globally, but it is already top 10 for the MCU globally and it could give Homecoming a scare to take that global 5th spot.

I think with this box office hit they may well go for another Thor movie in Phase 4. Though how firm is the policy of only giving "solo" movies trilogies and then moving on? Arguably though, there are no more true solo movies. Pretty sure every MCU movie will feature at least 2 established headline characters, or use one established headline character and introduce another. Steve Rogers should at least show up in Black Panther for a cameo, given where Bucky ended up for safe-keeping. Captain Marvel is already confirmed to have Nick Fury (not a super hero, but a headline character, IMO, or at least a draw card), and I'm sure some characters from GotG will appear. It's only 20 years ago (less if you consider GotG1 was in 2014), and the only character from GotG that we might have doubts about being around is Rocket. Young Peter Quills is with Yondu, Groot is somewhere, Gamora and Nebula might be in the process of being adopted and trained by Thanos. There is potentially a heck of a lot of story surrounding Captain Marvel.

[Knight of Ashes]

On 11/11/2017 at 10:14 AM, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 I haven't seen the film, so this comment doesn't directly relate to Hemsworth's performance, but idiot Thor is the correct version of Thor, IMHO. If you've read the myths, idiot is at the core of Thor. I realize this isn't always the iteration that Marvel forwards, but it is the most accurate and best version of the character for my money.

That reminds me of the joke idiot Thor shared in Seasons of Mists:

"I'm Thor!"

"You're thore?? I'm tho thore I can barely thith!!!"

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

58 minutes ago, Knight of Ashes said:

That reminds me of the joke idiot Thor shared in Seasons of Mists:

"I'm Thor!"

"You're thore?? I'm tho thore I can barely thith!!!"

Or that bit Loki shares about tricking Thor into believing he has given birth to Ratatoskr, the squirrel that lives in the World Tree. Classic stuff.

[Knight of Ashes]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Or that bit Loki shares about tricking Thor into believing he has given birth to Ratatoskr, the squirrel that lives in the World Tree. Classic stuff.

I forgot about that.  Kinda makes me wish Gaiman depicted Thor that way in 1602.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Or that bit Loki shares about tricking Thor into believing he has given birth to Ratatoskr, the squirrel that lives in the World Tree. Classic stuff.

You should try to watch The Almighty Johnsons some time. See how that story depicts Thor.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

7 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

You should try to watch The Almighty Johnsons some time. See how that story depicts Thor.

I'll have to check that out. It sounds fun.