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Marvel Cinematic General Discussion 7


Calibandar

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I actually feel bad for Loki, a bit. Sure, it's his nature to cause mischief, but after Ragnarok, he seemed to be genuinely with his brother for the first time.

The ship gets probably trashed in the first act/scene and Thanos forces him to hand the Tessaract over, as per their prior agreement (pre-Avengers). One of those scenes where the servant is forced to walk slowly to stand by his old master, maybe to back stab him in the end. Tragic hero type stuff. Or maybe Gollum/Smeagol is a better parallel. Loki is always in conflict with his desire to have a family and to do what's best for himself.

Then again, with all the heroes in this movie, Loki's role will probably be cut short after handing over the stone. Price of failure.

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Well, they surely can't have Thor being the last Asgardian, so something has to be done to preserve that race.

I wonder what would have happened to the Tessaract if it was still on Asgard when Surtur destroyed it. I assume he is not capable of destroyig an infinity stone (I assume they are actually indestructable). So it would have been flung off into space and probably reasonably easily tracked down by Thanos. So conceivably Loki took the Tessaract for safe-keeping (though with using it for personal gain definitely a solid option). He would certainly not want it to fall into the hands of Surtur or Hela, both of which were possible outcomes of not taking it at the time he wakes up Surtur.

Speaking of Hela, how is it she recognises the infinity gauntlet in Odin's vault enough to say it's a fake, and yet she doesn't seem to recognise that the tessaract is an infinity stone?

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3 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

If Infinity does fail to be compelling, it'll be the combination of:

* So much expectations that everyone shows up to see it with a super- judge- ie set of eyeballs.

* It became too much of a long checklist of things that needed to be included, rather than being able to feel like a movie with a life of its own.   So the scenes are all saying to us, "this is impressive, right?"  while the viewer's response is, "yeah? Yet I'm strangely unimpressed."

* The Computer Generated batch of villains are uninspired, for which Steppenwolf has been slapped.

* The film almost has to be a downer instead of feeling uplifting or inspiring the way the early phase 1 and 2 installments left you with a feelgood feeling.  The result may kill the golden goose and make people realize they're over this stuff, like, "This was the big one?  Huh."

 

Here's hoping they combat this with a larger sense of wonder , making you feel for the cosmos as thanos pokes it?   Or stuff like that.

I think Thanos beating down all the Earth-based Avengers will be one of the best things to happen to the MCU.

I'm a bit worried that some speculators are hoping that Wakanda will find a way to allow Vision to live with his physical form without the mind stone. We know that as long as Vision can upload himself he can't die, but I actually don't want his physical form to survive this movie. I want him to disappear into the cloud and for him to make a bodily return either in Avengers 4 or after that.

If the Avengers lose in this move but none of the principle cast dies, or at least seems to die, then it will be disappointing. Fortunately, by the look on Tony Stark's face at least one person is a goner or will seem to.

I think your first two bullet points are reasonable concerns. As to CGI villains, if they can do CGI Hulk well, then I'm pretty sure they can do CGI villains to a degree that will satisfy the audience. So I'm not worried about that.

I feel like Infinity War probably needs to be nearly 3 hours long. We know epic movies can do it, so the question is whether they want that much of a run time. Civil War has the longest run time so far at 2'27. But I think Infinity War probably needs at least 2'40" to tell a coherent story.

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By the looks of it, the power stone will be the first stone Thanos acquires, so I'm guessing the film may have an opening sequence of Thanos invading Xandar to get the power stone from the Nova Corps. We may see the GotG step into the scene after this which, IMO, would be a great opening sequnce to IW.

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Also, it seems Earth will have 2 fronts split between NYC/Wakanda and coming off Civil War, it looks like those that sided with Stark will be on the NYC front and those that sided with CA will be on the Wakanda front?

I also wonder what stones Thanos will have by the end of the first film - we can already see he has power and space stones in the trailer, but by the end of the first film I'm guessing Thanos will acquire atleast the mind stone from Vision and Time stone from DrStrange on top of the power and space stones. Not sure how things will roll with the Collector/reality stone and wherever the hell the soul stone is.

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2 hours ago, Skyrazer said:

By the looks of it, the power stone will be the first stone Thanos acquires, so I'm guessing the film may have an opening sequence of Thanos invading Xandar to get the power stone from the Nova Corps. We may see the GotG step into the scene after this which, IMO, would be a great opening sequnce to IW.

Did you see the post credits scene in Thor 3?

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2 hours ago, Skyrazer said:

Also, it seems Earth will have 2 fronts split between NYC/Wakanda and coming off Civil War, it looks like those that sided with Stark will be on the NYC front and those that sided with CA will be on the Wakanda front?

I also wonder what stones Thanos will have by the end of the first film - we can already see he has power and space stones in the trailer, but by the end of the first film I'm guessing Thanos will acquire atleast the mind stone from Vision and Time stone from DrStrange on top of the power and space stones. Not sure how things will roll with the Collector/reality stone and wherever the hell the soul stone is.

If that's the case why is War Machine fighting with the Wakandan contingent?

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19 hours ago, Myrddin said:

I actually feel bad for Loki, a bit. Sure, it's his nature to cause mischief, but after Ragnarok, he seemed to be genuinely with his brother for the first time.

The ship gets probably trashed in the first act/scene and Thanos forces him to hand the Tessaract over, as per their prior agreement (pre-Avengers). One of those scenes where the servant is forced to walk slowly to stand by his old master, maybe to back stab him in the end. Tragic hero type stuff. Or maybe Gollum/Smeagol is a better parallel. Loki is always in conflict with his desire to have a family and to do what's best for himself.

Then again, with all the heroes in this movie, Loki's role will probably be cut short after handing over the stone. Price of failure.

Bare in mind that I know nothing at all about the comics...

I think Loki is likely to hang around for Infinity 2 - and if we're going with LOTR analgogies - I'd see him far more as a Wormtongue than a Gollum/Smeagol; and I can absolutely see him siding with Thanos for a film, and turning the tide in his direction. I can also see him (suicidally) administering the coup de gras (or at least, fatlayy weakening) to Thanos at the pivotal time when our heroes are eventually triumphant - which won't be this movie.

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1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

 

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If that's the case why is War Machine fighting with the Wakandan contingent?

 

I guess I should've added the "generally speaking" caveat.

As the film progresses, I imagine the split Avengers will start uniting when they realise they're all fooked otherwise.

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I would hate to see Loki go. By definition, he's an agent of chaos. He is neither good nor bad, he just is. I think that's why he's so fun. He creates upheaval because it's his nature as God of Mischief. That's why he can so seamlessly transition from sympathetic antihero to villain. He just gets bored. I think there's more to do with him. Ragnarok showed us bits, but I'd like to see him explored as a full-blown protag at some point.

I can definitely seeing him working to undermine Thanos, as Loki would be best used as our eyes on him. Thanos has no recognizable characters on his team. Having Loki occupy scenes with Thanos will give us something familiar to acclimate ourselves to the new villains.

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I wonder if they will cheap out with the reality stone and have it as a post credits scene. He doesn't have it when he gets to Earth, and his interrogation of the Collector previously yielded nothing. So he decides to go to Earth and pick up the 2 (or 3) stones that he knows are there. Then it's off to get the Reality stone to complete the set.

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I wonder if they will cheap out with the reality stone and have it as a post credits scene. He doesn't have it when he gets to Earth

I'm not sure this is true. As I said before Marvel has released trailers with altered or misleading scenes before. It would be a simple thing to CGI in other stones to the glove. Also I thought the scene where he has the two stones was not on Earth. In the leaked comic-con footage doesn't he

 

pulls one of the planet's multiple moons down to the planet? I've seen speculation that that all takes place on a devostated Xandar 

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General musings about the trailer.

I'm not sure how much we can read into Stark not being in the shot of them all running towards the camera. It's clearly in Wakanda, and we see in the shot of Falcon flying over a fight, Tony is fighting in the Hulkbuster armour. We see Bruce stood next to the gauntlet that appears to be hooked up to some testing equipment. Is he getting a Vibranium upgrade? Bruce, Tony and T'Challa working together to improve the Hulkbuster armour. So what happens between that calm seeming stuff, and the battle? Why is Tony relatively isolated (he has Wakandans around him, but no identifiable heroes.)

Thanos has the Power gem first, then adds the Space Gem, which we see Loki offer up. He may have the Time Gem as we can't see his thumb, but it seems unlikely. There is a very slight green camera flare when he punches Iron Man, but I don't think he has it, that combined with the power stone makes him pretty much unstoppable by itself.

Corvus Glaive is the guy trying to rip the gem out of Visions head (it's his spear,) Proxima Midnight lobs her spear at Cap, he then catches it. Black Widow stabs someone with a spear. Does she kill Proxima, giving our heroes a small victory against Thanos big one? Ebony Maw,and Black Dwarf have yet to appear I think.

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Saw Ragnarok the other night.  Loved it.  I can see why some might not like it, but I think dumb Thor is the best Thor.  It fits his character perfectly, and Hemsworth is great at comedy so it works really well.  I just generally enjoy how Marvel can swing from more serious fare like Winter Soldier and Civil War to ridiculous shit like Guardians and Ragnarok and not skip a beat, along with films that fall somewhere in the middle like Homecoming and Doctor Strange to round everything out.  It's just really impressive the general quality level these films maintain despite releasing like two a year for the past decade.  What was the last bad Marvel movie?  Iron Man 3?  

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12 minutes ago, briantw said:

 What was the last bad Marvel movie?  Iron Man 3?  


Iron Man 3 was cracking. It was also before Thor 2 which I know a lot of people see as the worst Marvel film (although I like it personally).

Ant-Man, on the other hand, I thought was poor. As was Age of Ultron really.

But yeah, they've had some good consistency. And are finally starting to take at least a few deviations from the template that was kind of starting to dull my enthusiasm (still haven't seen Homecoming, though I probably will this week).

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6 minutes ago, polishgenius said:


Iron Man 3 was cracking. It was also before Thor 2 which I know a lot of people see as the worst Marvel film (although I like it personally).

Ant-Man, on the other hand, I thought was poor. As was Age of Ultron really.

But yeah, they've had some good consistency. And are finally starting to take at least a few deviations from the template that was kind of starting to dull my enthusiasm (still haven't seen Homecoming, though I probably will this week).

I just found Thor 2 to be forgettable.  It wasn't bad or anything.  Just nothing special.

Iron Man 3 I thought was outright bad.

I enjoyed Ant-Man.  Thought it was enjoyable and funny.  Not a great film, but certainly not bad.

Age of Ultron was all right.  It was just too similar to the first Avengers and it obviously wasn't as good as its predecessor.  

So yeah...I'd probably take Iron Man 3 as the last bad one.  There were a few underwhelming ones after that, but nothing that was as bad as Iron Man 3.

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43 minutes ago, briantw said:

Saw Ragnarok the other night.  Loved it.  I can see why some might not like it, but I think dumb Thor is the best Thor.  It fits his character perfectly, and Hemsworth is great at comedy so it works really well.  I just generally enjoy how Marvel can swing from more serious fare like Winter Soldier and Civil War to ridiculous shit like Guardians and Ragnarok and not skip a beat, along with films that fall somewhere in the middle like Homecoming and Doctor Strange to round everything out.  It's just really impressive the general quality level these films maintain despite releasing like two a year for the past decade.  What was the last bad Marvel movie?  Iron Man 3?  

I don't think it's accurate to say "dumb". He did outsmart Loki. This version of Thor comes across to me like a less conceited, self-centered and vulgar version of Archer.

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