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Marvel Cinematic General Discussion 7


Calibandar

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5 hours ago, Myrddin said:

I wonder when AM&W takes place? If after Infinity War, then Wasp won't be in IW. 

It's supposed to pick up shortly after Civil War, just like Black Panther. 

Edit: Wasp still won't be in Infinity War because they want to "preserve the reveal" which is a bit silly since I think we just saw the reveal with that trailer. Plus in-universe it's hard to imagine what she would be doing that was more important then dealing with Thanos. 

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11 hours ago, RumHam said:

It's supposed to pick up shortly after Civil War, just like Black Panther. 

Edit: Wasp still won't be in Infinity War because they want to "preserve the reveal" which is a bit silly since I think we just saw the reveal with that trailer. Plus in-universe it's hard to imagine what she would be doing that was more important then dealing with Thanos. 

It's gonna be a bit weird having a movie post Infinity War that takes place slightly before Infinity War. But perhaps (hopefully) AM+W will tell us why The Wasp didn't show up in Infinity War.

Just a bit of a note about some of what we saw. I thought the whole thing with the shrink-tech was that your mass didn't change form being shrunk, only your size. So when Hank Pym shrinks his building is would still weigh the same. Which means that  on the one hand Pym would not be able to wheel it around as if it was a carry-on suitcase, and 2, concentrating that amount of mass into such a small surface area would probably make the building sink into the earth, at least a little bit.

Does the enlargement tech increase mass? I'm not really up to speed on the Pym particle lore.

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6 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

It's gonna be a bit weird having a movie post Infinity War that takes place slightly before Infinity War. But perhaps (hopefully) AM+W will tell us why The Wasp didn't show up in Infinity War.

Just a bit of a note about some of what we saw. I thought the whole thing with the shrink-tech was that your mass didn't change form being shrunk, only your size. So when Hank Pym shrinks his building is would still weigh the same. Which means that  on the one hand Pym would not be able to wheel it around as if it was a carry-on suitcase, and 2, concentrating that amount of mass into such a small surface area would probably make the building sink into the earth, at least a little bit.

Does the enlargement tech increase mass? I'm not really up to speed on the Pym particle lore.

The mass does decrease. He rides ants after all. But there are things that don't make sense, he leaves a dent in someones car roof, can punch people and not go flying off in the opposite direction etc. Which is why Giant Man shouldn't work, his mass is many times that of a human, but his strength shouldn't be, but because Pym Particles, it is.

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It's a comic book movie.. you have to leave the physics out especially in the case of Ant Man's growing and shrinking with respect to his mass. They should have left the whole conservation of mass out altogether in the first movie. 

Anyways, I was mostly lukewarm to Ant Man. Didn't even watch it in theaters which is an outlier for me with the Marvel movies. Loved that trailer though.. 

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

It's gonna be a bit weird having a movie post Infinity War that takes place slightly before Infinity War. But perhaps (hopefully) AM+W will tell us why The Wasp didn't show up in Infinity War.

Just a bit of a note about some of what we saw. I thought the whole thing with the shrink-tech was that your mass didn't change form being shrunk, only your size. So when Hank Pym shrinks his building is would still weigh the same. Which means that  on the one hand Pym would not be able to wheel it around as if it was a carry-on suitcase, and 2, concentrating that amount of mass into such a small surface area would probably make the building sink into the earth, at least a little bit.

Does the enlargement tech increase mass? I'm not really up to speed on the Pym particle lore.

He had a tank on his keychain in the first one.

(And FWIW I had the same question then)

But in the end, as WG says... it’s a comic book movie.

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Maybe the suit is a special case, with a mass- retention field on it to make it weaponized, but then other stuff that shrinks doesn't keep its mass (like the tank) ??     That sort of makes sense of it for me anyways.

 

If we were really going according to "physics,"  the enlarged ant (and Rudd's giant man too) would have immediately crumpled to the ground after they grew, because their muscle mass would have been outstripped by the cubic growth of their.... lard? ....of the rest of them.   They'd no longer be balanced creatures, and would die helpless from being out of proportion.  At some point, a body designed to be one weight class just couldn't expand and expect to use the same ratio of muscle anymore without failing.   The clever Odysseus would trick his enemy into supersizing and then just skewer the incapacitated goober.

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It's any-man; you have to park all aspect of logic outside the theatre. It's why I'll never rewatch the first, and won't be watching this. It requires too much suspension of disbelief.

The canon explanation is that it brings the atoms closer together, meaning that his mass is the same, just super dense. So he has to pull his punches rather than inflict multiple pin-prick wounds, but as giant-man he becomes supper strong (whilst the very same explanation for having strength whilst small suggests that he'd be weaker than a newborn babe).

Physics dictates that the first time he activates the particles he smashes straight through the bath and burrows through the earth's mantle, dying within a couple of minutes. Yet ants can fly with him sitting on his back.

 

I'm a fantasy fan, I don't particularly mind magic, I don't even mind magic when it's dressed as super-advanced bullshit-science; but if you're going to come up with a bullshit-science explanation, then be consistent.

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Wait... you are complaining about a “suspension of disbelief” in a series of films where a “super soldier” syrum exists and gamma rays can make a scientist a large pissed off dude. Where the Norse gods were really long living aliens and an entire super advanced civilization exists in the middle of Africa and has never been detected.

I’m having problems suspending my belief right now! :lol: 

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Pym Particles make so little sense that even the official Marvel wiki admits they break almost every known law of physics. But the short version is that they transmit matter to and from another dimension, allowing objects to be shrunken or grown and to reduce, increase or maintain their mass at the same time. 

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2 hours ago, Rhom said:

Wait... you are complaining about a “suspension of disbelief” in a series of films where a “super soldier” syrum exists and gamma rays can make a scientist a large pissed off dude. Where the Norse gods were really long living aliens and an entire super advanced civilization exists in the middle of Africa and has never been detected.

Yes; consistent use is the key.

Set up your magic/bullshit science; but then assume that these new rules are the same next you want to do something; rather than just changing with narrative convenience at the time.

Super soldier serum was created, and it made the participant bigger, stronger and faster. If exactly the same serum, on the same subject was also capable of making him smaller, weaker and slower for no real reason - then suspension of disbelief is tested beyond breaking.

Bana becomes Hulk when he gets angry; if Hulk became this incredibly calm zen-master philosopher, then I'd have issues.

Primitive people confuse a super-advanced, super-strong alien with a god - seems actively plausible.

Super-advanced civilisation in Africa hasn't happened yet, so I can't pass judgement.

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6 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Yes; consistent use is the key.

 

Yep.

6 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Super-advanced civilisation in Africa hasn't happened yet, so I can't pass judgement.

From the trailer they appear to have cloaking technology, so not being detected seems entirely plausible.

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Someone should do a crowdfunding campaign to send the children of known racists to see Black Panther. I mean I doubt one movie would do much in preventing them from growing up to also be racists, but you never know.

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I hope that in addition to some self belief these kids get something else to take away with them, like a pair of shoes, or some other thing to help with their material deprivation. It's all well and good to give these kids a couple of hours respite from the shittiness of their lives and instill in them some greater sense of self, but at the end of the day that money is floating back to the top to fill Disney's coffers.

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