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Marvel Cinematic General Discussion 7

404 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

I wonder what (if anything?) this might mean for the New Mutants film?  Is it already finished?  Or in post production?

It's in post-production, and given they had a decent sized trailer I'd bet they've probably got the edit more or less finalised. They're still releasing promotional stuff on twitter as of a day ago, that's on message to what we've seen so far, so probably it's still on as planned. It'll be released as a FOX film. The changes'll come when it's Disney from the ground up.er.com/NewMutantsFilm/status/94136800493121

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I like the idea of  BW movie being back story, and being very much of the spy/thriller rather than super hero type. Not an origin story per se (she should be a kick arse assassin from the off), but perhaps a "how did she end up with S.H.I.E.L.D." movie. And of course explore her history with Hawkeye.

I think Johansson and Renner are of an age where they can pretty much play characters aged between mid 20s and early 40s with the right make up. So a movie set in 2008 (concurrent timeline with the original Iron Man and Hulk) would be feasible, with BW being in her mid 20s, and having been an assassin since her late teens.

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I love spy action movie thrillers but I don’t want or need a Black Widow movie. 

I'm glad for female led superhero movies and what not but Wonder Woman 2, Captain Marvel, Silver and Black, Batgirl, Kitty Pride, and now Black Widow are all white female led films. Where are the WOC led films like America Chavez, Silk, Kamala Khan, or even Storm. 

I really hope Marvel will be announcing some WOC movies very soon. 

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Black Widow is such a no-brainer. They should be a little embarrassed it took them this long to green light even a script. It can be made with a nothing budget, relatively speaking, and it has all the potential in the world. Deadpool was made for 60 mill. The smallest budgeted MCU movie is Ant-Man, at 130 mill. Black Widow can do significantly worse than any other MCU movie at the box office and still make triple its budget. People don't want a glossy Black Widow movie. You have an excuse to make this movie at a discount.

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3 hours ago, The Wolves said:

I love spy action movie thrillers but I don’t want or need a Black Widow movie. 

I'm glad for female led superhero movies and what not but Wonder Woman 2, Captain Marvel, Silver and Black, Batgirl, Kitty Pride, and now Black Widow are all white female led films. Where are the WOC led films like America Chavez, Silk, Kamala Khan, or even Storm. 

I really hope Marvel will be announcing some WOC movies very soon. 

Small steps, I guess we have to be thankful for that?

It's a frequent and fair argument that the biggest female superheroes are still white (and just by being female the list shrinks considerably). Out of the ones you mention Kamala khan could possibly work - although I think she'd suit a TV show. Storm could if she is given a more prominient role in the inevitable MCU reboot/recasting. The other two would have to spin out of a white man's film first to make much sense (although we're getting a Venom without spidey so anything's possible).

It's why the casting of non-white people in roles has been used and is actually a pretty good idea. In the case of Nick Fury it worked so well that the comics bent over backwards to make their version black too.

If Captain Marvel does well and Black Panther (which looks excellent) then this, added with Wonder Woman's success will show it can be done and that people want superheroes irrespective of race and gender. Then we'll get more variety. But they shouldn't rush into it unless they have a great concept because when these types of film fail the easy excuse is to say "women/black/etc lead films don't work". Again, looking at the comics side Marvel valiantly tried to diversify their cast. The issue was that the general story telling approach in Marvel has been terrible and event driven for several years. Marvel's solution? Stop making diverse comics. They still have the same terrible story telling though.

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8 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Black Widow is getting her film, it's going to be written by, get this, a woman.

https://www.cbr.com/black-widow-film-screenwriter/

Finally Marvel have noticed that this type of film can be done (see also Atomic Blonde, Red Sparrow, etc.)

4 hours ago, The Wolves said:

I love spy action movie thrillers but I don’t want or need a Black Widow movie. 

I'm glad for female led superhero movies and what not but Wonder Woman 2, Captain Marvel, Silver and Black, Batgirl, Kitty Pride, and now Black Widow are all white female led films. Where are the WOC led films like America Chavez, Silk, Kamala Khan, or even Storm. 

I really hope Marvel will be announcing some WOC movies very soon. 

I'd love that too, and I really hope that with DeWanda Wise appearing in the Captain Marvel movie (presumably as Monica Rambeau) we get a Monica Rambeau solo film spinning off from that. I don't even care which codename they give her. She's such a great character, with tons of potential as a lead. 

We also do get Shuri in the new Black Panther but it's harder to see her getting a spinoff, although you never know. Still: BP is fairly new to the line, so she won't be taking over that mantle any time soon, I suppose.

Disagree with red snow about Kamala - for me, a film is the way to go, although the TV series idea has been popular too. But I think Kamala can carry a film. Her supporting cast will still work, the effects budget would be bigger, and you can easily tie it in to Spider-Man. More to the point, I think Kamala has the cachet to carry it. 

A Storm solo would be sweet but it has to get the casting just right. The material is right there in the comics. So much good stuff that can be adapted. I'd love to see a movie focusing on her relationship with Forge. 

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3 hours ago, red snow said:

It's why the casting of non-white people in roles has been used and is actually a pretty good idea. In the case of Nick Fury it worked so well that the comics bent over backwards to make their version black too.

I don’t know if this was a typo for you or not... but you do know it was the other way around, don’t you?

The Ultimates version of Nick Fury was actually based off the look of Sam Jackson years ago and the MCU liked it so much they purposely went out and got him.

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I think probably if you want to get more WoC onto the big screen X-Men is the best way to go. X-Men volume 4, had an all female X-Men team, the only white one was Rachel Grey (well and sort of Psylocke, but you could just make her British Japanese.) This isn't solving the issue of leading a film, but getting audiences familiar with them as big players would help towards that end.

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2 hours ago, Rhom said:

I don’t know if this was a typo for you or not... but you do know it was the other way around, don’t you?

The Ultimates version of Nick Fury was actually based off the look of Sam Jackson years ago and the MCU liked it so much they purposely went out and got him.

Yeah, but then main universe Nick Fury was replaced a black Nick Fury in an fairly convoluted way.

Edited by GallowKnight

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5 hours ago, Rhom said:

 

The Ultimates version of Nick Fury was actually based off the look of Sam Jackson years ago and the MCU liked it so much they purposely went out and got him.

I was under the impression that when they made the deal to use Jackson’s image for Ultimate Fury, one of the conditions was that he got first refusal on playing Fury in any future movies.

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16 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

I was under the impression that when they made the deal to use Jackson’s image for Ultimate Fury, one of the conditions was that he got first refusal on playing Fury in any future movies.

Could be.  But the overall point is that the comic look dictated the movie, not the other way around

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34 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Could be.  But the overall point is that the comic look dictated the movie, not the other way around



Yeah, but as GallowKnight said, the main universe Fury was also made into Jackson by the most ridiculously contrived method possible after the films succeeded.

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6 hours ago, Rhom said:

I don’t know if this was a typo for you or not... but you do know it was the other way around, don’t you?

The Ultimates version of Nick Fury was actually based off the look of Sam Jackson years ago and the MCU liked it so much they purposely went out and got him.

Not a typo -as others mentioned the main marvel comics universe had a white WWII Nick Fury. The ultimate version was always Samuel L Jackson (Millar often encouraged his artists to emulate actors in his film pitches comics). So there was no contrived issues with Ultimate Nick Fury. But regular continuity Nick Fury involved their being a black Nick Fury Jr who wound up losing an eye, wearing a patch and taking over from Fury Sr.

44 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Could be.  But the overall point is that the comic look dictated the movie, not the other way around

The films had the freedom to choose whichever version they wanted to and as seen with various characters from Thor and Dr Strange they change gender/ethnicity as they wish. Besides the names of characters there's very little evidence of the comics ever dictating the movies. Which makes sense when ticket sales in New York for a mcu film are probably higher than single issue sales of the respective comic. I'd say the comic inspired Sam Jackson Nick Fury and his success in the role dictated the change afterwards in the comics.

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17 hours ago, The Wolves said:

I love spy action movie thrillers but I don’t want or need a Black Widow movie. 

I'm glad for female led superhero movies and what not but Wonder Woman 2, Captain Marvel, Silver and Black, Batgirl, Kitty Pride, and now Black Widow are all white female led films. Where are the WOC led films like America Chavez, Silk, Kamala Khan, or even Storm. 

I really hope Marvel will be announcing some WOC movies very soon. 

I'm guessing the diversity waters in super hero movies will be tested in the following manner:

White woman solo super hero movie viability (bonus points if you succeed in China): proof of concept - Wonder Woman (success + bonus point awarded); repeatability trial - Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman 2 (successes TBD); final validation - Black Widow (could be axed if Capt Marvel is a failure). Side note: Ant Man and The Wasp used to confirm female co-lead "buddy movie" as a viable formula.

Non-white male solo super hero move (bonus points if you succeed in China): Proof of concept - Black Panther (Noting previous attempts: Blade and to a lesser extent Spawn were moderately successful); repeatability trial TBC? Side note: Luke Cage Netflix show.

Non-white female solo super hero movie viability (double bonus points if you succeed in China): proof of concept TBC.

For all that the US cops a lot of shit for racism, it seems that the US market is pretty much the least difficult movie market for racially diverse leads to succeed. The test for non-white lead movie success is in the international market, and to a large extent China. Particularly for movies with budgets over $150 million. China hasn't really taken to Black lead actor movies yet. Maybe Black Panther might open a crack there.

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19 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

Black Widow is such a no-brainer. 

That's rather harsh. She's not that stupid.

;)

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Hmmm, I like the design, but I'm not sure why they don't just go straight to Red and Blue. Unless they're worried about her looking too much like the Wasp?

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34 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

Hmmm, I like the design, but I'm not sure why they don't just go straight to Red and Blue. Unless they're worried about her looking too much like the Wasp?

They definitely will. They released concept art at Comic Con last year, where she's in red and blue.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHCr6jmUQAANnO_.jpg

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