Jon Snow the new Night's King?

[Zekiel the Conqueror]

There is a theorie i have believed for about a year now that Jon will become the new Night's King and save everyone by leading the army of the dead back to the lands of always winter, with either dragon glass or even the Night's King transforming Jon himself. both Jon's and The Night's king's story is similar: A) Both been Lord Commander's of the Night's Watch. B ) Both fell in love with someone north of The Wall. And there is also on quote that is said here and there in the novels, which is 'When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives'. Jon being the lone wolf, saving the pack from the long night by sacrificing himself.

[Dragonsbone]

Not trying to be a  smartass here, but the quote from the books is a little bit different. As far as I remember, it is mentioned one time, in an Arya chapter. She has memories of those words, told to her by Ned: "A long time ago, she remembered her father saying that when the cold winds blow the lone wolf dies and the pack survives" (Arya I, AffC). Your quote is from the season 7 Trailer of GoT, which we haven't seen yet in an Episode. 

Anyway, back to your theory: the story of the Night's King in the books, is pretty much different then the story of Jon. Besides both being part of the Nights Watch and being Lord Comander of the Nights Watch, there is no other similarity between those two. The NK fell in love with an Other, while Jon fell in love with a human being. Also we don't exactly know if the NK fell in love or if he was manipulated by the Others. All we know about the NK is this short story that Old Nan told to Bran. Since the story is thousands of years old, it is highly unlikely that anything of it is true. Just imagine if we would have to rely on a story that is told from the time of the people on earth who lived 8000 years ago (Assuming the long night took place 8000 years ago, and assuming th NK was the 13th Lord Comander). 

Besides the NK has fought the realms of man, while Jon protects them. The one has become a tyrant, while there is nothing in the books that suggests that Jon will follow that path. 

The line that Ned tells to Arya is a metaphor for staying together and that family is important. 

[Wm Portnoy]

This is from a Bran POV in aGoT:

"Finally he looked north.  He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

Jon will become a wight.  An ice wight, to be more specific.

You could already argue that Jon betrayed the Watch when he broke his vows to steal his sister (the girl whom he thought was Arya) from Ramsay.  That act set off a chain reaction that will lead to chaos at the Wall.  

[Wm Portnoy]

10 hours ago, Zekiel the Conqueror said:

There is a theorie i have believed for about a year now that Jon will become the new Night's King and save everyone by leading the army of the dead back to the lands of always winter, with either dragon glass or even the Night's King transforming Jon himself. both Jon's and The Night's king's story is similar: A) Both been Lord Commander's of the Night's Watch. B ) Both fell in love with someone north of The Wall. And there is also on quote that is said here and there in the novels, which is 'When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives'. Jon being the lone wolf, saving the pack from the long night by sacrificing himself.

Allow me to refer you to an interesting discussion that touched on some of the same ideas.

 

 

[Springwatch]

16 hours ago, Zekiel the Conqueror said:

There is a theorie i have believed for about a year now that Jon will become the new Night's King and save everyone by leading the army of the dead back to the lands of always winter, with either dragon glass or even the Night's King transforming Jon himself. both Jon's and The Night's king's story is similar: A) Both been Lord Commander's of the Night's Watch. B ) Both fell in love with someone north of The Wall. And there is also on quote that is said here and there in the novels, which is 'When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives'. Jon being the lone wolf, saving the pack from the long night by sacrificing himself.

Now this is a scenario I am seriously enthusiastic about. It gets round the major difficulty of fighting through the Long Night - which is that hotbloods just can't survive in the north, let alone fight. Old Nan is very clear on that:

Quote

"... a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. There came a night that lasted a generation, and kings shivered and died in their castles even as the swineherds in their hovels...."

and the white walkers

Quote

"... felled heroes and armies by the score, riding their pale dead horses and leading hosts of the slain...."

I'd be seriously disappointed if it's just a bit of snow.

Another plus is that boring Jon becomes an exciting ice demon King of Winter.

Val too. I don't believe GRRM made mistakes with eye colours. I think turning her eyes blue was deliberate - a foreshadowing.

[Targaryen Restoration]

Whether he comes back a fire wight or an ice wight will depend on who revives him. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

19 hours ago, Zekiel the Conqueror said:

There is a theorie i have believed for about a year now that Jon will become the new Night's King and save everyone by leading the army of the dead back to the lands of always winter, with either dragon glass or even the Night's King transforming Jon himself. both Jon's and The Night's king's story is similar: A) Both been Lord Commander's of the Night's Watch. B ) Both fell in love with someone north of The Wall. And there is also on quote that is said here and there in the novels, which is 'When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives'. Jon being the lone wolf, saving the pack from the long night by sacrificing himself.

Nope 

[300 H&H Magnum]

20 hours ago, Zekiel the Conqueror said:

There is a theorie i have believed for about a year now that Jon will become the new Night's King and save everyone by leading the army of the dead back to the lands of always winter, with either dragon glass or even the Night's King transforming Jon himself. both Jon's and The Night's king's story is similar: A) Both been Lord Commander's of the Night's Watch. B ) Both fell in love with someone north of The Wall. And there is also on quote that is said here and there in the novels, which is 'When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives'. Jon being the lone wolf, saving the pack from the long night by sacrificing himself.

I don't think history will necessarily repeat itself but there will be parallels between the past and the future.  Humans are humans.  The human heart has not changed.  Many bad decisions were made long ago by the Stark who eventually became the NK.  Rhaegar and Lyanna made bad decisions .  Robb marched south instead of north.  And so on.  But yeah, I can see Jon's story paralleling that of the NK. 

[foxberlin]

It's my gut feeling too, that Jon becomes Night's King. How, I don't know. Warging Ghost, until Val does something icy with his body, which allows him to take control over ice whights? Whatever it needs to become one of the others himself. It's hard to tell from the bits we have until now.

I'm positive we'll have two whight POVs at the end: icy Jon in the North, firy Brienne in the South. Different approaches, though, for Jon had "lived" before he lost his life, whereas Brienne get's that only when she's death. Jon leads an army of whights into a realm far away, whereas Brienne guards a southern border where a united force of fire whights will be created to move North to fight on their own account.

As ice melts near fire and water kills fire, all whights will be gone when the war is over.

[Sea Dragon]

The nights king idea as him being a still living entity is a show only concept. I am not a huge Jon fan but it seems pointless to have a major character like him just walk off into the sunset for some unknown reason. Jon and Daenerys are destined for each other. 

[Springwatch]

Jon has plenty of 'undead' foreshadowing, e.g.

• Naming his direwolf 'Ghost'
• Dressing up as a ghost as a prank on the other children
• Bran's vision of Jon: the skin growing pale and hard etc
• (I first put the feast of the dead here - but now think that's Theon)
• Repeated dreams of the crypts and the ghosts there

There's probably more.

Foreshadowing of a marriage with Dany is much less, basically a specific interpretation of the Undyings' prophecy. It's not impossible, but the evidence is not overwhelming.

Anyway - the importance of the undead is rising exponentially though the series. This includes many kinds of undead, not all monsters, not all brainless, but the biggest factor will be the army of wights controlled by the white walkers - for which there is no solution yet.

So, Jon dies, and suddenly he can connect with this world. He has been trying to learn about the wights, and failing, but now he can do it. Perhaps he will free them. Perhaps he will learn to take control of them - this quote could be a faint hint of that:

Quote

(Jon's dream) Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again.

The undead world is too important to allow for Jon's immediate resurrection/healing as a normal human being - he will stay 'dead' for a considerable time. But his 'arc' is learning to be a leader, a battle commander, so who will he lead? The living don't want an undead Lord Stark. The Wall does need a superhuman defender. Night's King it is.

[Makk]

OK, so this is your "theory", but what does it even mean? There is actually very little known about the Night's King and there is very little that links him with the long night or indicates that he ever commanded wights or was undead.

All that is known about him is from Old Nan's story. 

Quote

 

As the sun began to set the shadows of the towers lengthened and the wind blew harder, sending gusts of dry dead leaves rattling through the yards. The gathering gloom put Bran in mind of another of Old Nan's stories, the tale of Night's King. He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night's Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. "And that was the fault in him," she would add, "for all men must know fear." A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.

He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

"Some say he was a Bolton," Old Nan would always end. "Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down." She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. "He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room."

No, Bran thought, but he walked in this castle, where we'll sleep tonight. He did not like that notion very much at all. Night's King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it's getting dark.

 

That's it. There is nothing here to indicate he wasn't a man or that he was dead, or that he controlled the Others and led them past the wall again (in fact that would have been recorded). I get the impression that people arguing for Jon to take this step are not really arguing he will become the "Night's King" but something else entirely.

We don't even know how much of Old Nan's story is true. Jon could already be considered to be the second Night's King as he led the ungodly undead Wildlings through the wall, laid with the demonic fire-priestess, was a shapeshifting werewolf that drank human blood, and schemed to bring down the noble Boltons and the entire seven kingdoms before the heroic Bowan Marsh put an end to him as he was on the brink of tearing down the wall.

As you can see, events can be seriously twisted and misrepresented by whoever writes (or talks) about them.

I will never say never, but we have had a lot of Jon chapters. We have been inside his head throughout the entire story. While he does have flaws, he is by far the closest thing we have had to a hero in the story. To do what I think the OP and some others are suggesting, it would completely go against his nature, and while I can accept that death would change someone, what is the point in changing someone so much that it completely rewrites every aspect of his character.

[Farstrider]

Bran is the most likely of the Starks to control the wights.  He's the most powerful warg among the Starks.

The Night's King is like the other legends out there.  Like the story of Gilgamesh in our world.  Like the Great Empire of the Dawn that may or may not have even existed.  Maybe he existed.  Maybe he didn't.  Jon will come back as a wight (if he comes back at all).  That is the only way of getting some additional time without making death cheap.  George is not about to soften the impact of death as that will minimize it.  Jon will either stay dead or he will get a short reprieve if he becomes a wight.  The third option involved living his second life inside Ghost.  That's good for Jon but it would suck for Ghost.  I don't like Jon but I have nothing against his wolf. 

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 7/29/2017 at 9:35 AM, Wm Portnoy said:

This is from a Bran POV in aGoT:

"Finally he looked north.  He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

Jon will become a wight.  An ice wight, to be more specific.

You could already argue that Jon betrayed the Watch when he broke his vows to steal his sister (the girl whom he thought was Arya) from Ramsay.  That act set off a chain reaction that will lead to chaos at the Wall.  

Yes

[Sea Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Yes

No. Jon did not go to steal Arya. Mance did from the lake. Jon let the wildlings in and that made some people mad. This Jon wight idea goes against Martin's idea of Jon and Daenerys's destiny together.

[Moiraine Sedai]

1 minute ago, Sea Dragon said:

No. Jon did not go to steal Arya. Mance did from the lake. Jon let the wildlings in and that made some people mad. This Jon wight idea goes against Martin's idea of Jon and Daenerys's destiny together.

I don't agree with you, obviously.  

[Springwatch]

On 30/07/2017 at 10:08 PM, Makk said:

OK, so this is your "theory", but what does it even mean? There is actually very little known about the Night's King and there is very little that links him with the long night or indicates that he ever commanded wights or was undead.

All that is known about him is from Old Nan's story. 

That's it. There is nothing here to indicate he wasn't a man or that he was dead, or that he controlled the Others and led them past the wall again (in fact that would have been recorded). I get the impression that people arguing for Jon to take this step are not really arguing he will become the "Night's King" but something else entirely.

We don't even know how much of Old Nan's story is true. Jon could already be considered to be the second Night's King as he led the ungodly undead Wildlings through the wall, laid with the demonic fire-priestess, was a shapeshifting werewolf that drank human blood, and schemed to bring down the noble Boltons and the entire seven kingdoms before the heroic Bowan Marsh put an end to him as he was on the brink of tearing down the wall.

As you can see, events can be seriously twisted and misrepresented by whoever writes (or talks) about them.

I will never say never, but we have had a lot of Jon chapters. We have been inside his head throughout the entire story. While he does have flaws, he is by far the closest thing we have had to a hero in the story. To do what I think the OP and some others are suggesting, it would completely go against his nature, and while I can accept that death would change someone, what is the point in changing someone so much that it completely rewrites every aspect of his character.

I can agree with much of this. I see Old Nan's stories as tall tales with an important kernel of truth, now forgotten. They won't be played out verbatim, but echoed in the fate of a current character (or characters - I haven't forgotten the Stannis and Mel combo).

With Jon as Night's King, I'm aiming for the widest possible target, which is an ice magic commander of the Wall - no need to be evil, or brain-dead, or to go over to the side of the Others.

The second possibility is communication with intelligent wights - this quote seems to be a set up for that:

Quote

[Septon Cellador] "Lord Commander, wights are monstrous, unnatural creatures. Abominations before the eyes of the gods. You ... you cannnot mean to try and talk with them?"

"Can they talk?" asked Jon Snow. "I think not, but I cannot claim to know. Monsters they may be, but they were men before they died. How much remains? The one I slew was intent on killing Lord Commander Mormont. Plainly it remembered who he was and where to find him.... My lord father used to tell me that a man must know his enemies. We understand little of the wights and less of the Others. We need to learn."

(ADWD)

(This must be pretty close to the territory of the Heresy threads - which are way too big to read in a hurry!)

[kissdbyfire]

On 30/07/2017 at 8:33 PM, The Coonster said:

Bran is the most likely of the Starks to control the wights.  He's the most powerful warg among the Starks.

The Night's King is like the other legends out there.  Like the story of Gilgamesh in our world.  Like the Great Empire of the Dawn that may or may not have even existed.  Maybe he existed.  Maybe he didn't.  Jon will come back as a wight (if he comes back at all).  That is the only way of getting some additional time without making death cheap.  George is not about to soften the impact of death as that will minimize it.  Jon will either stay dead or he will get a short reprieve if he becomes a wight.  The third option involved living his second life inside Ghost.  That's good for Jon but it would suck for Ghost.  I don't like Jon but I have nothing against his wolf. 

 

Liking Jon as a character or not shouldn't have an impact on what you see as possibilities for his future role in the story. And frankly, to seriously entertain the notion that he may not come back one way or another is to completely dismiss/misunderstand the story being told because of personal bias. 

[300 H&H Magnum]

On 7/29/2017 at 4:21 PM, Springwatch said:

Another plus is that boring Jon becomes an exciting ice demon King of Winter.

That could make him less boring.  However, Jon is supposed to be boring.  He's not witty nor charming.  He is icy, like Ned.  Far from handsome, like Ned. 

He will come back in some form or another and wight is the most likely.  GRRM would cheat us if Jon comes back normal.  He needs to come back as a wight with a very short "fresh to" date. 

On 7/29/2017 at 9:35 AM, Wm Portnoy said:

This is from a Bran POV in aGoT:

"Finally he looked north.  He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

Jon will become a wight.  An ice wight, to be more specific.

You could already argue that Jon betrayed the Watch when he broke his vows to steal his sister (the girl whom he thought was Arya) from Ramsay.  That act set off a chain reaction that will lead to chaos at the Wall.  

That is a good find.