chasing the dragons

Iron Bank of Braavos (IBB)

46 posts in this topic

On 7/31/2017 at 3:09 AM, Holly Macaroni said:

Ok. The show proved my i spoke recklessly too soon about the show not addressing this.

I'll save you all the trouble of going through the routine procedure, and hire myself a nun with a bell to walk behind me shouting "shame" throughout the next week.

Fully deserved.

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On 7/31/2017 at 0:09 PM, Holly Macaroni said:

Ok. The show proved my i spoke recklessly too soon about the show not addressing this.

I'll save you all the trouble of going through the routine procedure, and hire myself a nun with a bell to walk behind me shouting "shame" throughout the next week.

Lol! 

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3 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

It's a fun story and the character development makes it more interesting than most.  But ultimately the story, book or TV, is a long way from being revolutionary.  Although the show has certainly revolutionised TV as a storytelling medium.

The story is about the kids.  Basically the only people that matter are Jon, Dany, Bran, Arya, Tyrion and Sansa.  It's effectively their tale.

I thoroughly enjoyed the development of characters, one of my favourites has been Jamie Lannister and Jon Snow. Unfortunately for me alot of characters are being butchered now ie littlefinger. I liked Jamies change of character but now i feel its gone backwards for him. 

I agree the TV series has been a massive step in the storytelling world. I wouldnt necessarily agree with the latter part. I really feel the only people that are of any significant matter are Jon and Daenerys and Bran the rest of the characters are falling or will be falling in tow behind them. For me Arya storyline has come to an end, probably going to see her kill little finger and meet Melisandre. Tyrion well I dont really know what to think of him anymore. For Sansa she is just going to have lots more crappy talk scenes with Little finger before he is eventually killed, she will serve no purpose then really.

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On 30.7.2017 at 11:11 AM, Samwell_Tarly said:

We will hopefully see the Iron Bank pick one side to back, either Daenerys or Cersei. They are good cases to argue for both Queens so im unsure of who it would be.

Why would they back Daenerys?

  • Cersei cant pay the debt back
  • 3 dragons and a massive army
  • would get the money back and could negotiate to pay back the Lannister debt
  • Wars are expensive, food for army, etc
  • On paper the better investment

Why would they back Cersei?

  • Daenerys aggressive negotiating nature
  • Braavos was founded by former Valyrian slaves - slaves that escaped powerful families who used dragons to enslave them. 
  • Swopped a dragon for a slave army then killed the masters with the army
  •  Daenerys untrustworthy and unpredictable.

Based on this the likely canditate on paper and to get the money back would be Daenerys. The arguement based on backing Cersei is their own morals mainly.

Smart bankers do not pick sides, they make deals with every side...

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The IBB should be very conflicted when it comes to Dany because yes on one hand she is Valyrian and has dragons which Bravossi do not like because their city was founded by those who escaped the captivity of the Valyrians, but at the same time Dany is also freeing all the slaves in Slaver's Bay. Cannot believe that the IBB had investments in the slave trade. That makes zero sense in my eyes and they just butchered the lore to give the IBB more reason to back Cersei. Unless Tycho was just humoring her when it came to that comment. 

Despite this gripe I love that Mark Gatiss is back big fan of his from Sherlock.

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2 hours ago, The Chequered Raven said:

Smart bankers do not pick sides, they make deals with every side...

How is making deals with all sides smart banking, you might aswell not pick a side at all. 

I give 2 million to Cersei, I give 2 million to Daenerys, Cersei loses, but Daenerys wins and pays her share back.... you get where this is going.

Its about picking a side but having a back up plan incase.

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15 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

How is making deals with all sides smart banking, you might aswell not pick a side at all. 

I give 2 million to Cersei, I give 2 million to Daenerys, Cersei loses, but Daenerys wins and pays her share back.... you get where this is going.

Its about picking a side but having a back up plan incase.

The idea is the winner pays 4 million and would be part of the terms of the 2 million loan

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On 31 Ιουλίου 2017 at 0:11 PM, TheSmallOther said:

Quite the contrary. Representatives of the Iron Bank are back in the show again. I assume you've watched preview of episode 4 already.

And Red Priestess will be back again, I'm quite sure of that. All these red priestess have quite an impact on the events, I'd expect to see even more of them.

(Ofc I have :D)

Yeah this episode was quite surprising! I doubt the would give time for the IBB and I suddenly saw them. 

After I heard that Mel is going back in Volantis and she will return for one last time I knew that she won't come alone. Kinvara is coming with her. I expect Melisandre to live in next episode and return in 7 maybe.

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1 hour ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

The idea is the winner pays 4 million and would be part of the terms of the 2 million loan

Why would you assume that? 

Take for example Stannis, did Joffrey pay for Stannis's backing I think not. The IBB would try to negotiate that.

As the Iron bank says then pick the best investment, they dont pick all investments. They literally bet on the likeliest candidate to win the war.

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2 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Why would you assume that? 

Take for example Stannis, did Joffrey pay for Stannis's backing I think not. The IBB would try to negotiate that.

As the Iron bank says then pick the best investment, they dont pick all investments. They literally bet on the likeliest candidate to win the war.

No Joffrey defaulted so the bank approaches Stannis gives him x amount of gold to win the throne, on the understanding that he pays all the thrones debts (his own and the Lannisters) should he be successful.

It is made clearer in the books.  The throne would probably have to pay Stannis gold back as penalties should they win on top of what they originally owed or face the IBB bankrolling usurpers indefinitely or so they would have everyone believe.

 

"Iron Bank of Braavos had a fearsome reputation when collecting debts. Each of the Nine Free Cities had its bank, and some had more than one, fighting over every coin like dogs over a bone, but the IronBank was richer and more powerful than all the rest combined. When princes defaulted on their debts to lesser banks, ruined bankers sold their wives and children into slavery and opened their own veins. When princes failed to repay the IronBank, new princes sprang up from nowhere and took their thrones" Jon 9 Dance

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We don't really know the structure of the bank, its history, or really... anything about it. The fact that it's located in Braavos doesn't necessarily mean they have an anti-slave agenda.

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4 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

No Joffrey defaulted so the bank approaches Stannis gives him x amount of gold to win the throne, on the understanding that he pays all the thrones debts (his own and the Lannisters) should he be successful.

Could you please quote a scene, paragraph from the show where it says. 

4 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

It is made clearer in the books.  The throne would probably have to pay Stannis gold back as penalties should they win on top of what they originally owed or face the IBB bankrolling usurpers indefinitely or so they would have everyone believe.

Its getting to the point where the books hold no reference to the show. Why would anyone be want to rule the throne and have say 20 previous monarchs debts to pay.

On 02/08/2017 at 8:11 PM, The Chequered Raven said:

Smart bankers do not pick sides, they make deals with every side...

9 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

The idea is the winner pays 4 million and would be part of the terms of the 2 million loan

4 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

When princes failed to repay the IronBank, new princes sprang up from nowhere and took their thrones" Jon 9 Dance

Nice contradictions........... :o:P

 

 

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The whole IBB thing, imo, is a metaphor for the military industrial complex, with the reason (whether real or conspiracy theorist) that it profits off war and therefore creates and fans the flames of war.  Which is why I think Dany will receive an offer of financial support after Cersei pays the debt.

 

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8 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

 

Its getting to the point where the books hold no reference to the show. Why would anyone be want to rule the throne and have say 20 previous monarchs debts to pay.

Nice contradictions........... :o:P

Fine the books and the show do not necessary follow the same path, but we know the IBB backed Stannis and had debts outstanding to the throne.

In the real world somebody will always want to rule regardless of how bankrupt the country is, and generally they try to pay off previous debts to the best of their ability.  Otherwise all a realm or country would have to do is change their leader to 'repay' (forget) about any debts owed.

Btw you do know you quoted The Chequered Raven right?

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6 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

Fine the books and the show do not necessary follow the same path, but we know the IBB backed Stannis and had debts outstanding to the throne.

In the real world somebody will always want to rule regardless of how bankrupt the country is, and generally they try to pay off previous debts to the best of their ability.  Otherwise all a realm or country would have to do is change their leader to 'repay' (forget) about any debts owed.

Saying that was propably stupid on my part, of course they are going to want to rule. The debt will be attached to the monarchy not the person.

6 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

Btw you do know you quoted The Chequered Raven right?

I see I have, but the second quote from is am explanation to confirm you also support the theory they support every side??? If not then please ignore it all.

We wouldnt bet on every team in the world cup, we would pick one with best chance of winning.

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8 hours ago, Illiterati said:

The whole IBB thing, imo, is a metaphor for the military industrial complex, with the reason (whether real or conspiracy theorist) that it profits off war and therefore creates and fans the flames of war.  Which is why I think Dany will receive an offer of financial support after Cersei pays the debt.

 

Its pretty clear to me this is not going to be case, not after Dany torches the Lannister army while transporting all this gold to be used to pay the debt.

Edited by Samwell_Tarly

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4 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

 

I see I have, but the second quote from is am explanation to confirm you also support the theory they support every side??? If not then please ignore it all.

They technically do back all sides they just want their money back.

Obviously they did not start out with that intention, like I said it is made clearer in the books, but the show is not the book so who knows how things will pan out

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3 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

They technically do back all sides they just want their money back.

Obviously they did not start out with that intention, like I said it is made clearer in the books, but the show is not the book so who knows how things will pan out

Its one of them things where we both are partly right. They do technically back more than one side but not at any one time, and thats where I'm right. They dont pick all sides at once and back them, they pick one i.e Joffrey, he fails and Stannis comes along so they back him to take over. So we are both partly correct if we look at it from all sides.

Edited by Samwell_Tarly

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The IB will back Cersei if the gold makes it back to Kings landing. IB already backed Stannis who was not sitting on the the Iron throne. IB wants it's gold and their best shot is Cersei right now because she is sitting on the IT. So I do not see them trading sides. 

If the gold does not make it back to KL. I don't see Cersei letting the envoy from IB go free. In fear of what would happen next. Like going to Dany or sending faceless me after her.

Dany may not agree to pay the debt of her uspers who were on the IT anyway. 

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I think it's a simple as Westeros being a kind of analogy for the US (massive debt levels which, in part, support massive miltiary spending) and the IB is something like the World Bank or IMF (they know that Westeros is technically insolvent but they have to keep loaning otherwise the entire financial system may collapse).

The idea, for the IB or any bank, is that whatever they loan will eventually come back to them with interest. But, at a certain level of debt and failed return, it's in everyone's best interest to keep kicking the can and loaning, otherwise everyone with gold in the bank will probably want to withdraw and the bank will fail.

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