215 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Risto said:

@nara, Olenna didn't start the war as no one knew she killed Joffrey. Cersei's hatred towards Tyrells started even when Joffrey was alive and escalated when she was threatened by Margaery. Cersei believes that she can do everything by herself and that she is smart and powerful enough to win them all, and yet as Olenna pointed out, even Tywin understood the need to work with rivals. As Tyrion also pointed out, every time they deal with an enemy, they get two more. And Cersei will have a tough time with her real enemies - Daenerys and Starks. They won't bite the dust as easy as Sand snakes or Tyrells.

I actually didn't mean Olenna literally started the war, but rather that she killed Cersei's child before Cersei killed hers, so her complaint was somewhat hypocritical (but I guess grieving people are not rational).  (BTW, that doesn't mean that I don't think that Joff needed to be gone.) And I do think that although Cersei was jealous of Marg and foolishly allowed that to drive her behavior, she only went full-on crazy after Joff's death.

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1 hour ago, RedShirt47 said:

Anyone else use the Audio Description feature on Sky Atlantic in the UK? I've had to since the lighting on the show went quite dark a few seasons back.

Apart from them calling Ser Davos Seaforth rather than Seaworth, this week it had quite a big gaff. It described the Lannister army with Jaime on horseback with Kevan Lannister. I was quite confused as I thought he had died in Cersei's purge last season. But from reading other comments I think it must have been Randyll Tarly with Jaime. This makes much more sense.

Good episode either way. Plenty of plot progression. Some good interactions - Jon & Tyrion and Jaime & Oleana in particular.

Minor gripe with the Iron Bank of Braavos being in the Slave Trade when the city of Braavos was founded by escaped slaves and it's the one city in Essos which never had slavery. A minor plot point which doesn't ruin the show for me.

It was tarly and his son and bron riding with jaime.

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2 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Preach.

He asked for it. Also, see above quote for all the justification Sansa needed to give him a quick cold shoulder.

 

To be fair I think it was more about her just needing space to go cry. I don't think she was purposly giving him the cold shoulder though. I really hated that scene to be honest.

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1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Most definitely. I think those are the books he asked, and was denied, the access to. It is his reward.

And Sam excelled where many who came before him failed.  His experience with Jon and the NW, the walker, and especially the woman and her baby may have set him above all who had no such knowledge.

He may wind up not just copying, but improving these ancient scrolls.

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24 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

Bran essentially said he wasn't gonna be lord of winterfell or anything. And jon is king of the north not warden of the north.

Yes, but Bran's title is beyond dispute.  It may ultimately not matter what he thinks.

 The King of the North appointed Sansa the Warden, she cannot be his queen.

Danarys wanted to anoint Jon her Warden of the North as she does not recognize any of the thrones as in anyone else's hands.  (Uh, butts)

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What did Dang say?  "You also have lost two brothers."  Bran is still presumed dead as far as she would know.  Does Jon know Bran is alive at that point?  Or did everyone forget Rickon again?

Jon should suspect that Bran may have escaped Winterfell but it was clumsy dialog regardless.  Or did Sam mention that he saw Bran alive?

Also whoever upthread said the Iron Bank wasnt getting paid,  I thought Cersei s give me one week promise meant they would be paid from plunder from the Reach.

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Viserion! It was Viserion that flew over Jon. Foreshadowing or what? That dragon was white, then we saw green Rhaegal and black Drogon in the distance. Jon's white and Tyrion's green.

Loved the reunion with Sansa and Bran. He's changed and now Sansa knows it. I says he needs to speak with Jon and I think it will be sooner than I previously thought. Sansa left him by the Wierwood, from where we can presume he talk over a great distance, or perhaps translocate. 

The scenes leading to Jaime's talk with Olenna were well done, narrated as they were out of Tyrion's backstory and connecting with Cersei's promised gold for the Iron Bank. We can presume that the wealth of Highgarden will pay the Lannisters' debt. But now Jaime knows who killed Joffrey and he has no reason to hate Tyrion.

I missed the Arya cameo, but did wonder at a maid with short hair. Cersei could be dead next episode! No inkling of Yara's fate and Theon appear's friendless, though I doubt that will last long.

I, for one, enjoyed the bloodless scene where Jon refused to bend the knee, especially Ser Davos' impassioned, if belated, testimony of his new king's honour. Davos and Tyrion will cook up some plans when they get the chance.

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19 minutes ago, Lee Chapman said:

Yes, but Bran's title is beyond dispute.  It may ultimately not matter what he thinks.

Of course it matters. You can't force someone to be King, or Warden, against their will. Just ask Maester Aemon.

Even if their society somehow has no precedent for abdication (which is implausible—and at least in the books, we know it's not true), what do you think would happen if a King announced he was abdicating? Put their fingers in their ears and say "La la, we can't hear you, you're still King" and then just have nobody making judgments on anything for the rest of his life? Of course not. Whether they accept the abdication, come up with some complicated legal fiction to deal with it, or even kill him in anger, they still have to give the reins of power to the next person in line.

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Probably the worst episode so far in the series. I don't know what's worse... the dialogue or the actually plotline. Jeez =/

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1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

Also tyrion has essentially lost every one of dany's westerosi allies and put the unsullied in a very bad place.

But ultimately Tyrions instincts about what kind of man Jon is will be all that matters.  (His queen agreed to his assessment against her own judgement)

Those trivial losses and victories against the living will matter for nothing once The Real War has begun.

Jon now has the only thing he needed to go to Danys home for...

(The Unsullied still have 3 dragons, unused so far...)

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1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

Also tyrion has essentially lost every one of dany's westerosi allies and put the unsullied in a very bad place.

But ultimately Tyrions instincts about what kind of man Jon is will be all that matters.  (His queen agreed to his assessment against her own judgement)

Those trivial losses and victories against the living will matter for nothing once The Real War has begun.

Jon now has the only thing he needed to go to Danys home for...

(The Unsullied still have 3 dragons, unused so far...)

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1 hour ago, mcbigski said:

What did Dang say?  "You also have lost two brothers."  Bran is still presumed dead as far as she would know.  Does Jon know Bran is alive at that point?  Or did everyone forget Rickon again?

Jon should suspect that Bran may have escaped Winterfell but it was clumsy dialog regardless.  Or did Sam mention that he saw Bran alive?

Also whoever upthread said the Iron Bank wasnt getting paid,  I thought Cersei s give me one week promise meant they would be paid from plunder from the Reach.

Jon has lost two brothers: Robb and Rickon.

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Hi,

I already wondered about Misandei's surprised face in that scene with Grey Worm last week. Also, they did not show the nothing he supposedly has where others carry their somethings. Could it be that he only pretends to be cut for some obscure reason (his first owner forgot, and he didn’t care to insist; now he likes "being unsullied fighter")? This week there was that scene, where he is walking around Casterly Rock - immediately after spearing that guy to end the fight -, and the camera focuses on his between-the-legs - there was definitely something dangling. (They could have given the actor tight underwear, or not use that camera angle at all.) Maybe Misandei suddenly turns our pregnant?

There was also some hilarious dialogue in this episode, though I’m not convinced whether this is a good thing. Only a few examples:
(Dany meets Jon)
Dany: “I’m the last of the Targaryans” - audience is expected to shout out, “except you’re not”.
Jon: “I’m not your enemy… The dead are the enemy."
I remember Frankie Boyle telling elderly people, “I’m not your enemy - winter is.” Frankly, I believe the GoT screenwriters thought of this.
Jon: “You’ve been talking to Tyrion” - Dany: “He’s my hand.”
Whatever, talk to the hand?!
Arch Maester: "Who told you to treat him?” Sam: “No one." (suddenly a wild Arya appears: "The f- I did!")
My point is not that I like bad jokes, but that I felt encouraged to them by this episode more than by any other before.

Finally, does the Romulan Queen dig Urine, or not? I’ve read on another website, she might have poisoned Jamie with that kiss...

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2 hours ago, mcbigski said:

What did Dang say?  "You also have lost two brothers."  Bran is still presumed dead as far as she would know.  Does Jon know Bran is alive at that point?  Or did everyone forget Rickon again?

Jon should suspect that Bran may have escaped Winterfell but it was clumsy dialog regardless.  Or did Sam mention that he saw Bran alive?

Also whoever upthread said the Iron Bank wasnt getting paid,  I thought Cersei s give me one week promise meant they would be paid from plunder from the Reach.

I'm quite sure Sam did mention that Bran is alive.

Also, Jon knows that Bran and Rickon hadn't been killed by Theon because Rickon was alive last season

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5 hours ago, mcbigski said:

Also whoever upthread said the Iron Bank wasnt getting paid,  I thought Cersei s give me one week promise meant they would be paid from plunder from the Reach.

I believe that was a guess about the future based on preview for the next episode. And Cersei said "fortnight" I believe.  You're like my boss.  I say, "I can do it in 2 weeks" and he hears "1 week". ;)

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How come Jon didn't want Dany to know about him being brought back from the dead?

And how come there's still barely any mention of what happened to the Frey's?? Does no one wonder who killed all of them??

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11 hours ago, falcotron said:

Of course it matters. You can't force someone to be King, or Warden, against their will. Just ask Maester Aemon.

Even if their society somehow has no precedent for abdication (which is implausible—and at least in the books, we know it's not true), what do you think would happen if a King announced he was abdicating? Put their fingers in their ears and say "La la, we can't hear you, you're still King" and then just have nobody making judgments on anything for the rest of his life? Of course not. Whether they accept the abdication, come up with some complicated legal fiction to deal with it, or even kill him in anger, they still have to give the reins of power to the next person in line.

I merely meant that these things can take on a life of their own outside of the individual in the center of the storm.

And there was also the consideration that what he is describing himself as - is far more powerful than anything even the king could ever hope to be.

But back to my original post.  The peoples and soldiers may decide to not follow neither Jon nor Sansa because of ancient tradition.  (Assuming they have no traditions involving the Three Eyed Raven)

It might get interesting...

Edited by Lee Chapman
Neither is not the same as either...

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39 minutes ago, BradDoty08 said:

And how come there's still barely any mention of what happened to the Frey's?? Does no one wonder who killed all of them??

Presumably Arya made it look like Walder planned to kill off a bunch of rival heirs to straighten out his succession, but accidentally killed them all, then committed suicide, or something like that. Sometimes barely believable and totally suspicious. But I think it's just not too important to anyone to worry about.

I'm pretty sure that, from what we've heard, Walder not only couldn't be counted on to supply Cersei with any significant troops, he wasn't even supplying food, or doing anything significant to keep order in the Riverlands. 

And, now that he's dead, I don't think there are any named characters left to raise an army there against Cersei.

So, either way, the Riverlands is just where the smugglers get the food they smuggle into KL, and it has no other strategic value from now until the end of the war.

That may not seem plausible, but if that's the facts we've been told, that's that. And, if so, Walder's death isn't even worth mentioning when there's 70000-man armies switching sides back and forth on a daily basis, plus a half dozen people you need to get personal revenjustice against.

(Of course I wouldn't be at all surprised if next week, Sansa has teleported to Riverrun, summoned all of the River Lords, given them a rousing speech in the name of her Tully mother, and raised an army overnight that can be used for a dramatic reversal to Cersei or a threat/offer to compel Dany to take Jon more seriously. But that's not based on any facts we've been told, just on me expecting the show to give us another huge diplomatic/logistic/strategic surprise out of nowhere.)

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10 hours ago, StraightFromAsshai said:

Probably the worst episode so far in the series. I don't know what's worse... the dialogue or the actually plotline. Jeez =/

Here Here, couldnt agree more with you. Im a massive fan of GOT, unfortunately not having read the books I can only comment on the show. For the first time last night I hated it, it was all talk and the talk was utter shit, the actual plotline now is well appalling, D&D are just in it for the fans now, its literally just fanfiction. From articles i have read, it wouldnt  be like this if  George RR Martin was involved. Season 7 has been on a downward spiral and i really hope it picks up. It feels we are back at Season one.

Edited by Samwell_Tarly

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I have given up wondering what Martin might do at a given point in the story. He's taken far too long to release a book so if the show then becomes what folks identify as canon then so be it, it's his own damn fault. Having unburdened myself of the "what would martin do" nonsense, it frees me up to try and enjoy the show as it's own entity. Lord knows D&D have given us plenty to gripe about but I feel like "Queen's Justice" was actually one of their better efforts.

There were a handful of situations that could easily have been over done and moronic but actually worked rather well. Dany's blandness aside, the give and take between Jon and Dany was entertaining and even somewhat surprising considering Jon ended up scoring a victory even tho' Dany had home field advantage. The Jaime/Olenna scene was quite good, also with a nice 'gotcha' at the end. I'll ignore Euron's mess because of my own personal bias against all things Greyjoy. Even the Sand Snake punishment was relatively understated. Thankfully restraint was shown where it would have been all too easy to get needlessly gruesome and uncomfortable. Granted the mother/daughter attempted hug at the end was rather goofy but it's the Dorne arc so some corniness is almost expected. There were even some humorous lines thrown in here and there. On the flip side, I didn't like the Bran/Sansa stuff at all. Sansa was actually pretty good but since when does the 3 eyed raven have to be such an emotionless douche. Honestly how difficult is it to say, the 3 eyed raven mentored me, he died, now I'm the 3 eyed raven? Instead we get "it's difficult to explain".. no Bran, it isn't. Having said all that, I felt all in all, it was better than most episodes that contain a lot of dialog.

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