Kaguya

Cersei's 'Mad Queen' hype

25 posts in this topic

Am I the only one a bit disappointed so far? Cersei is being hyped to be this big bad and female equival to Aerys, and yet so far all we have seen is her simply play the game like everyone else, and exact revenge on her enemies (also like everyone  else). 

 

She hasn't really given us a reason to hate her or want her off throne IMO (Like Aerys and Joffrey who used to kill or torture innocents). The worst thing she's done was kill a few hundred innocents in the self explosion but that was all about survival.  Do y'all think she's still in development? 

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10 hours ago, Kaguya said:

Am I the only one a bit disappointed so far? Cersei is being hyped to be this big bad and female equival to Aerys, and yet so far all we have seen is her simply play the game like everyone else, and exact revenge on her enemies (also like everyone  else). 

 

She hasn't really given us a reason to hate her or want her off throne IMO (Like Aerys and Joffrey who used to kill or torture innocents). The worst thing she's done was kill a few hundred innocents in the self explosion but that was all about survival.  Do y'all think she's still in development? 

LMAO if you think that the Sept explosion was all about survival. Blowing up hundreds of innocents who pose no threat to you is NEVER truly about survival.

Cersei's motives were purely selfish, aggressive and yes, evil, not to mention blind also for that matter. She couldn't even see the impact her actions would have on her own son, because she was fuelled by hate and wanting to destroy her enemies to essentially consolidate power for herself.

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56 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

LMAO if you think that the Sept explosion was all about survival. Blowing up hundreds of innocents who pose no threat to you is NEVER truly about survival.

Cersei's motives were purely selfish, aggressive and yes, evil, not to mention blind also for that matter. She couldn't even see the impact her actions would have on her own son, because she was fuelled by hate and wanting to destroy her enemies to essentially consolidate power for herself.

If the sept didn't happen....She would have been trialed and killed, no? 

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23 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

If the sept didn't happen....She would have been trialed and killed, no? 

Death wasn't on the table.  Imprisonment, sure.  But the High Sparrow knew he needed the backing of Tommen, so he would not have sentenced Cersei to die, with the possibility of losing his biggest ally.  She was being tried for incest, adultery and lying.  Hardly worthy of a death sentence...

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24 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

Death wasn't on the table.  Imprisonment, sure.  But the High Sparrow knew he needed the backing of Tommen, so he would not have sentenced Cersei to die, with the possibility of losing his biggest ally.  She was being tried for incest, adultery and lying.  Hardly worthy of a death sentence...

Not much better. 

 

I mean my point is that at this stage, Cersei really isn't being presented as any worse than Arya, both are sinister killers that are exacting vengeance....I am yet to truly see a 'Mad Queen' yet (which I hope eventually develops). 

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It's because the showrunners love Cersei and the Lannisters. From the outset, the Starks were always stupid and the Lannisters were brilliant. Even making Cersei "dark and evil", they still give her charisma and also want us to sympathize with her. She is the underdog. We are supposed to like her because the Ds love her.

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2 hours ago, Kaguya said:

Not much better. 

 

I mean my point is that at this stage, Cersei really isn't being presented as any worse than Arya, both are sinister killers that are exacting vengeance....I am yet to truly see a 'Mad Queen' yet (which I hope eventually develops). 

I'm sorry, but comparing Cersei and Arya to one another just isn't realistic.  Arya hasn't killed innocents.  Cersei has killed hundreds.  She is responsible for the atrocities that happened to Ned, Sansa, Tyrion, etc.  She has the Mountain doing who knows what to the septa.  Not to mention, her setup with Ellaria and Tyene in the dungeons is just twisted on a whole other level.  I mean, I get the revenge factor, but to confine them to where Ellaria will not only watch her daughter die, but keeping her alive to watch her body decompose?  Diabolical. 

I think we will really see the see the madness when her and Euron get together, which I think is inevitable.  I'm actually crafting a post about that now...

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14 hours ago, Kaguya said:

Am I the only one a bit disappointed so far? Cersei is being hyped to be this big bad and female equival to Aerys, and yet so far all we have seen is her simply play the game like everyone else, and exact revenge on her enemies (also like everyone  else). 

 

She hasn't really given us a reason to hate her or want her off throne IMO (Like Aerys and Joffrey who used to kill or torture innocents). The worst thing she's done was kill a few hundred innocents in the self explosion but that was all about survival.  Do y'all think she's still in development? 

Well, she did murder hundreds of people, mostly innocent, at the Great Sept.  She could have fled Kings Landing, like Olenna Tyrell, and saved her life, but she chose to remain and fight for power.  Up to a point, that's legitimate, but not to the point where you have to incinerate people.

And, she does seem to get aroused by torturing Unella, Ellaria, and Tyene.  She could have executed them cleanly, but far prefers to play with them.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I'm sorry, but comparing Cersei and Arya to one another just isn't realistic.  Arya hasn't killed innocents.  Cersei has killed hundreds.  She is responsible for the atrocities that happened to Ned, Sansa, Tyrion, etc.  She has the Mountain doing who knows what to the septa.  Not to mention, her setup with Ellaria and Tyene in the dungeons is just twisted on a whole other level.  I mean, I get the revenge factor, but to confine them to where Ellaria will not only watch her daughter die, but keeping her alive to watch her body decompose?  Diabolical. 

I think we will really see the see the madness when her and Euron get together, which I think is inevitable.  I'm actually crafting a post about that now...

Ned? That was LF through Joffrey 

Sansa? Well the dire wolf incident wasn't nice but what else really? 

Tyrion? 

Spoiler

Volonqar? 

 

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7 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Well, she did murder hundreds of people, mostly innocent, at the Great Sept.  She could have fled Kings Landing, like Olenna Tyrell, and saved her life, but she chose to remain and fight for power.  Up to a point, that's legitimate, but not to the point where you have to incinerate people.

And, she does seem to get aroused by torturing Unella, Ellaria, and Tyene.  She could have executed them cleanly, but far prefers to play with them.

 

 

This is true. She is too much on her enemies. But I guess for her to be a true monster IMO, I would like to see her go down more of an Aerys/Joffrey route, as in start torturing or killing for petty reasons.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Kaguya said:

If the sept didn't happen....She would have been trialed and killed, no? 

She had other options. She had this giant, undead and (so far) unbeatable and completely loyal zombie fighter. It was shown that the Sparrows can't touch her with UnGregor around and that she sends him out to murder random peasants who spoke against her/made fun of her. She could have simply sent her zombie warrior to pick off the High Sparrow and his followers one by one.

Instead she murdered a whole bunch of her own subjects. I have in the past pointed out that it is perfectly possible that a portion of the nobles present for her trial might have been there to support her. Did she care? No. She's evil and batshit. 

1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

 Arya hasn't killed innocents.

Well, at least not in the show... And even that only if you give her the benefit of the doubt that she hand-picked the Freys she poisoned in the season opener, making sure that each of them had actively contributed to the Red Wedding, while sparing those that didn't. If she just murdered every male member of the house wholesale then it's likely she got a few who had no part in the event and maybe even one or two who might have spoken against it. 

Edited by Orphalesion

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In the books we know that Aerys used to get aroused when he burned people alive after which he would go rape his wife.

Cersei tortures Ellaria and Tyene, clearly get aroused by it and then goes and has sex with Jamie.

Aerys burns Rickard alive and makes sure that the chains on Brandon are too short for him to go save his father.

Cersei poisons Tyene and makes sure the chains on Ellaria are short enough so that she is helpless to save her daughter.

I don't think these are coincidences.

 

 

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I'm sorry how has cersei not met the hype. When she blew the sept it wasn't just about survival watch her face when it blows and you see the complete satisfaction she gets from it. Also she has been killing people for years and sent margery to the dungeons because she thinks that margery is some evil women when in reality she could have been used for something else. Cersei has done tons of bad things and never shown any remorse for any of them. She showed no remorse for her son dying and even thinks he betrayed her by killing himself. She is a monster and it shows.

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9 hours ago, El Guapo said:

In the books we know that Aerys used to get aroused when he burned people alive after which he would go rape his wife.

Cersei tortures Ellaria and Tyene, clearly get aroused by it and then goes and has sex with Jamie.

Aerys burns Rickard alive and makes sure that the chains on Brandon are too short for him to go save his father.

Cersei poisons Tyene and makes sure the chains on Ellaria are short enough so that she is helpless to save her daughter.

I don't think these are coincidences.

 

 

I didn't even make the connect with these. I hope they bring this up somehow like having jaime piece it together

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10 hours ago, Kaguya said:

This is true. She is too much on her enemies. But I guess for her to be a true monster IMO, I would like to see her go down more of an Aerys/Joffrey route, as in start torturing or killing for petty reasons.

Cersei already is a true monster.

she has almost NO redeeming qualities as a person, even in the show. Her love for her children, which is Season 2 Tyrion labelled as her one redeeming quality, wasnt even as important to her as she pretended it was. Cersei used her children as an excuse and veil constantly to hide the fact her motivations for doing various things were not even about her children, but ultimately all about what she wanted.

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19 hours ago, Kaguya said:

Ned? That was LF through Joffrey 

Sansa? Well the dire wolf incident wasn't nice but what else really? 

Tyrion? 

  Hide contents

Volonqar? 

 

Ned? Cersei was the one who initiated Ned's arrest after he told her to leave KL with her bastard children. 

Sansa? Cersei kept Sansa captive essentially, constantly torturing her mentally, and putting her in all kinds of unfavorable situations. She forces Sansa to write the letter to Robb asking him to bend the knee.  She got the wedding between Sansa and Ser Loras called off (although inadvertently putting herself in the same position via Tywin) and essentially put a bounty on Sansa's head after the Purple Wedding.  

Tyrion?  Cersei has tormented Tyrion his entire life.  When he was a baby she used to do things like twisting his penis and pinching him until he cried.  She tried to have him killed at the BoB by Ser Mandon Moore.  She has Ros killed, thinking that she is Tyrion's secret concubine, when really it was Shae.  She had Ser Osmund Kettleback to lie at Tyrion's trial in order to stack the deck against him and see him put to death. She offers lordship to anyone who brings her Tyrion's head, resulting in many innocent dwarves and children being killed, without punishment. The list goes on. 

She murders her best friend Melara when they were still kids. 

She had Jon Arryn killed. 

She has all of Roberts bastards killed off, save for Gendry. 

She had Robert killed. 

The list goes on... Paranoia, greed and envy drove Cersei mad...

 

 

 

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On 02/08/2017 at 11:19 PM, Jaehaerys Stark said:

Ned? Cersei was the one who initiated Ned's arrest after he told her to leave KL with her bastard children. 

Sansa? Cersei kept Sansa captive essentially, constantly torturing her mentally, and putting her in all kinds of unfavorable situations. She forces Sansa to write the letter to Robb asking him to bend the knee.  She got the wedding between Sansa and Ser Loras called off (although inadvertently putting herself in the same position via Tywin) and essentially put a bounty on Sansa's head after the Purple Wedding.  

Tyrion?  Cersei has tormented Tyrion his entire life.  When he was a baby she used to do things like twisting his penis and pinching him until he cried.  She tried to have him killed at the BoB by Ser Mandon Moore.  She has Ros killed, thinking that she is Tyrion's secret concubine, when really it was Shae.  She had Ser Osmund Kettleback to lie at Tyrion's trial in order to stack the deck against him and see him put to death. She offers lordship to anyone who brings her Tyrion's head, resulting in many innocent dwarves and children being killed, without punishment. The list goes on. 

She murders her best friend Melara when they were still kids. 

She had Jon Arryn killed. 

She has all of Roberts bastards killed off, save for Gendry. 

She had Robert killed. 

The list goes on... Paranoia, greed and envy drove Cersei mad...

 

 

 

So many inacuaries 

 

1) Tywin got Sansa's wedding called off

2) She didn't kill Ross, she released her.  

3) Its implied in the show that Joffrey sent Mandon to kill Tyrion. 

4) Was kettleblack even in the show? 

5) There's no mention of her killing Melara in the show. 

6) Lysa killed Jon Arryn.

7) That was book only, Joffrey killed the bastards in the show.

 

FYI I am well aware book Cersei is a completely different specimen, and I wish the show didn't deviate her so much. 

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2 hours ago, Kaguya said:

7) That was book only, Joffrey killed the bastards in the show.

That one was particularly weird when compared to Cersei's book character. She cried in the scene when she told Tyrion that Joffrey had been responsible for killing the bastards and wondered out lout to Tyrion whether Joffrey's sadism was a "punishment for all her sins" and then accepted comfort from Tyrion who tried to cheer her up by telling her what lovely people Myrcella and Tommen are. 

Can you see book Cersei weeping over Joffrey's sadism, lamenting that the goods were punishing her, showing weakness to Tyrion or accepting comfort from her youngest brother?

Because I can't.

I also think if book Tyrion had found his sister in a state of distress, the last thing he would do was comforting her.

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6 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

That one was particularly weird when compared to Cersei's book character. She cried in the scene when she told Tyrion that Joffrey had been responsible for killing the bastards and wondered out lout to Tyrion whether Joffrey's sadism was a "punishment for all her sins" and then accepted comfort from Tyrion who tried to cheer her up by telling her what lovely people Myrcella and Tommen are. 

Can you see book Cersei weeping over Joffrey's sadism, lamenting that the goods were punishing her, showing weakness to Tyrion or accepting comfort from her youngest brother?

Because I can't.

I also think if book Tyrion had found his sister in a state of distress, the last thing he would do was comforting her.

They softened both her and Tyrion up in the show, and Im not a fan of it at all. 

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I think they want Cersei to be a sort of fantasy version of the new Claire Underwood. Look at the clothes they're putting her in now, and the way they've kept her hair short. I think we're supposed to be horrified, but also fascinated and impressed.

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