The Knight of Flours

Jon Snow - First of his Name....

93 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, The Special Pug of Belfast said:

Dany's drawn out title is an embarrassment. She disgraces herself by allowing Missandei to recite it every time she has a visitor.

The only thing that was embarrassing was that Missandei left out that she is also Queen of the Rhoynar, which is kind of inexcusable, since she has included the Rhoynar in the past when reciting Dany's titles in Meereen.

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On 8/1/2017 at 3:56 AM, The Knight of Flours said:

OK, Obviously Missandei has had a lot of practice, announcing Dany's ever-growing list of titles, over and over....

But Jon came off clearly second-best when Davos introduced him...

So how could Jon have been announced?

 

How about:

Jon Snow, King in the North, Blood of the Direwolf, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, The Peacemaker, A Prince Reborn

 

The above only relates to his Stark/Snow heritage - nothing about his Targaryan ancestry (although the reborn prince bit would also fit with that line)

 

Any other suggestions as to titles he could use when meeting Dany or other rulers?

I prefer "Jon Snow..... oh ya, the King in the North."

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On 8/1/2017 at 8:24 PM, Gaz0680 said:

I would say Daenerys and Jon are fairly close when it comes to inspiring men in the story, although they do so in different way. 

I agree with you that by declaring Jon King of the North, the Northern Lords basically once again announced their independence (just as they did when they named Robb KiTN) and their refusal to acknowledge the person on the Iron Throne as their ruler.

Essentially, they are not rebelling against the crown, that would be if they were trying to replace Cersei with someone else on the IT, which is not the case. 

The North is simply recognising a different entity as being the crown for them and declaring the Iron Throne as having no sovereignty and right to rule over the North.

This is the exact definition of "rebelling against the crown." :D

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On 8/2/2017 at 11:20 AM, Gala said:

People critisize her for this (well, at least that is why I do) because she brags about "crashing the wheel" at one point and in a next second she keeps repeating that she is born to be queen, she is rightful, everyone shoud kowtow to her majesty just because of her birthright (yes, I know how feudalism works). The problem is contradiction in her own words and actions. I am afraid she really thinks that she is a goddess of some sort - and that is annoying (well, that and her ignorance as well). Mind you, I actually like her character in the books.

Now why would she think herself a goddess of sorts? 

- the last (known) surviving member of a former dynasty

- the first person to birth a dragon in 300ish years

- she walked out of a funeral pyre unscathed

If one or all of those applied to me, I'd feel pretty special too.

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Now that that I think about it shouldn't Missandei also mention that Daenerys is the First of Her Name?  Someone really needs to sit down with her and make sure she gets these titles right. I am also not sure why she doesn't mention announce that Dany is also Queen of Meereen and Protector of the Bay of Dragons but that might be overkill.

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1 hour ago, El Guapo said:

Now that that I think about it shouldn't Missandei also mention that Daenerys is the First of Her Name?  Someone really needs to sit down with her and make sure she gets these titles right. I am also not sure why she doesn't mention announce that Dany is also Queen of Meereen and Protector of the Bay of Dragons but that might be overkill.

I don't think Dany is the first of her name. I seem to recall mention of a historical queen Daenerys Targaryen, but I may be wrong. 

Edit:  checked the WOIAF app and I'm wrong. He has Dany as the first of her name yadda yadda. 

Edited by Lurid Jester
Derp

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15 hours ago, Ser Hyle said:

Now why would she think herself a goddess of sorts? 

- the last (known) surviving member of a former dynasty

- the first person to birth a dragon in 300ish years

- she walked out of a funeral pyre unscathed

If one or all of those applied to me, I'd feel pretty special too.

I was writing a long reply yesterday, but site became unavailable, so I'll try to be succinct.
Feeling pretty special is one thing, and thinking that you're a goddess is another. She is mortal, after all.
I'll address your points:
1) She is not the only surviving member of Old Valyria. Targs weren't even the most aristocratic family in the first place in Valyria, just middle class family. Almost every person in Lys (including common people) share the same blood, maybe even more pure. Also, Valeryons, Daynes, Martells and even Baratheons share that blood. She is supposed to know that, but she choose not to.

2) First of all, it has been only about 150 years since the last dragon died. Night King, WW and Children of the Forest, even Giants are supposed to be extinct/dead for THOUSAND of years, but they are alive, as we know. There have been rumours of dragons living in faraway places, like Asshai or faraway empires, which maesters chose not to believe, the same as with WW, Children and NK. 

3) Although, she has a good tolerance to high temperatures (just like her great-grandfather Aegon had), she is not immune to fire. She used blood magic of Mirri Maaz Durr in that pyre - every other time she burnt (well, in the books at least, what they have decided to do with all this in the show is actually a shame). GRRM actually confirmed that it was "one time thing". She thinks that she is immune to anything really (fire, disease you name it), while her own family history is evidence of otherwise. The same great-grandfather Aegon died in a fire, along with his eldest son and few others, her idiotic great-granduncle Aerion drank a cup of wildfire and during the Dance with Dragons half of the Targ family was burnt and eaten by dragons, Great Sickness wiped out half of the Targ family.

My point is: IGNORANCE IS BLISS. Although, I understand why she thinks that she is special and she is, but I am appalled by her disinclination of simple things. 
 

Edited by Gala

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On 8/4/2017 at 1:23 AM, SeanF said:

"His Majesty John of House Stark, First of His Name, by the Grace of the Old Gods and the New, King of the North, Defender of the Faith of the Seven, Lord of Winterfell, the Wolfswood and the Stony Shore,  Protector of the Night's Watch, bids greeting to Lady Daenerys Targaryen of Dragonstone, styling herself Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men."

lol - I liked the ending :)

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All of you say that Jon was chosen to be King in the North.. BUT that doesnt really make sense. Why did they chose Jon to be their king?
He led his people to a war against Ramsay Bolton, that he couldnt win. If Sansa didn't ask for Littlefinger's help all the Wildlings he saved, all the soldiers and lords that followed him would be slaughtered. Robbin Arryn could declare himself King in the North and the Vale by the right of counquest. He was the one who conquered Winterfell..
How did Jon became a king?(this part of the show doesn't really make sense). Bran(as Sansa said) is the Lord of Winterfell(not that he will claim it anyway). Why did they choose Jon? He didn't win the battle.. He was not a Stark...
Jon was indeed inspired by the Wildlings, by Lyanna Mormont....

Daenerys was also inspired by a lot of people.
The slaves she freed, they loved her. They called her mother..

Quote

Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. "Mother!" they cried. "Mother, mother!" They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them . . .

The Unsullied loved her.. Grey Worm said that Grey Worm was a lucky name...

Quote

Grey Worm had remained Grey Worm. When she asked him why, he said, "It is a lucky name. The name this one was born to was accursed. That was the name he had when he was taken for a slave. But Grey Worm is the name this one drew the day Daenerys Stormborn set him free.

 

Edited by Styl7

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8 minutes ago, Styl7 said:

All of you say that Jon was chosen to be King in the North.. BUT that doesnt really make sense. Why did they chose Jon to be their king?
He led his people to a war against Ramsay Bolton, that he couldnt win. If Sansa didn't ask for Littlefinger's help all the Wildlings he saved, all the soldiers and lords that followed him would be slaughtered. Robbin Arryn could declare himself King in the North and the Vale by the right of counquest. He was the one who conquered Winterfell..
How did Jon became a king?(this part of the show doesn't really make sense). Bran(as Sansa said) is the Lord of Winterfell(not that he will claim it anyway). Why did they choose Jon? He didn't win the battle.. He was not a Stark...
Jon was indeed inspired by the Wildlings, by Lyanna Mormont....

Daenerys was also inspired by a lot of people.
The slaves she freed, they loved her. They called her mother..

The Unsullied loved her.. Grey Worm said that Grey Worm was a lucky name...

 

You really do not understand the difference between actually leading people to the battle and fighting for them and just coming at the right time to help?! 
They chose him because he fought for them, he spelt his own blood. The North is a little bit different from the most of the Westeros- "In the North you get what you deserve". He is considered to be Ned's bastard after all and in the books, at least, he is more Stark than any other of Ned's children (except for Arya, of course).
Dany is on her mission to fight slavery just because she was sold and bought and she actually admits that. She gave Unsullied their chance of revenge, of a sort, and yes, she freed them and they love her for that (that is quite normal, although, even a lot of slaves were not happy about it in the books, by the way). She actually enjoys when they call her Mother. I think it is a substitute for her not being actually a mother (like Elizabeth). 
Jon is leading to save people, Dany is ruling. 
Jon is chosen by independent people and Dany is chosen by those she freed, those that know nothing better than what she gave them. That is the difference. 
 
 

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3 hours ago, Styl7 said:

All of you say that Jon was chosen to be King in the North.. BUT that doesnt really make sense. Why did they chose Jon to be their king?

He led his people to a war against Ramsay Bolton, that he couldnt win. If Sansa didn't ask for Littlefinger's help all the Wildlings he saved, all the soldiers and lords that followed him would be slaughtered. Robbin Arryn could declare himself King in the North and the Vale by the right of counquest. He was the one who conquered Winterfell..

How did Jon became a king?(this part of the show doesn't really make sense). Bran(as Sansa said) is the Lord of Winterfell(not that he will claim it anyway). Why did they choose Jon? He didn't win the battle.. He was not a Stark...
Jon was indeed inspired by the Wildlings, by Lyanna Mormont....

Daenerys was also inspired by a lot of people.
The slaves she freed, they loved her. They called her mother..

The Unsullied loved her.. Grey Worm said that Grey Worm was a lucky name...

 

Realistically, who else are they going to choose? Bran was lost or dead as far as they knew. Robin isn't with his troops, isn't a Northerner, and hasn't even ever visited the North.

They could pick one of the vassals, but which one do you see as being ready to take the job, and why do you think everyone would be willing to support them? The tradition of following the Starks goes back far, far longer than any real-world dynasty; following a Stark bastard is something that happens every so often, but switching to another House is something that doesn't happen except in extreme situations, like Bolton being forced on them against their will.

Also, while declaring Jon as their King may have been a rash choice, that's not at all out of character. Their wisest and more experienced leaders (who were themselves pretty rash in declaring Robb King) mostly died fighting for Robb, and the most pragmatic of those left behind sided with Bolton. The North is led by bitter old men, radically idealistic second sons, and untrained little kids.

And yes, of course Dany was also chosen as a Queen by her people. (Her struggle is going to be that the people of Westeros didn't choose her the way her previous subjects did, but that hasn't come up yet.) But I'm pretty sure the show plans to made a big deal out of that parallel between her and Jon, rather than setting up a competition of which one was "more" chosen.

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5 hours ago, falcotron said:

Realistically, who else are they going to choose? Bran was lost or dead as far as they knew. Robin isn't with his troops, isn't a Northerner, and hasn't even ever visited the North.

They could pick one of the vassals, but which one do you see as being ready to take the job, and why do you think everyone would be willing to support them? The tradition of following the Starks goes back far, far longer than any real-world dynasty; following a Stark bastard is something that happens every so often, but switching to another House is something that doesn't happen except in extreme situations, like Bolton being forced on them against their will.

Also, while declaring Jon as their King may have been a rash choice, that's not at all out of character. Their wisest and more experienced leaders (who were themselves pretty rash in declaring Robb King) mostly died fighting for Robb, and the most pragmatic of those left behind sided with Bolton. The North is led by bitter old men, radically idealistic second sons, and untrained little kids.

And yes, of course Dany was also chosen as a Queen by her people. (Her struggle is going to be that the people of Westeros didn't choose her the way her previous subjects did, but that hasn't come up yet.) But I'm pretty sure the show plans to made a big deal out of that parallel between her and Jon, rather than setting up a competition of which one was "more" chosen.

Everyone think Bran is dead as you said.. BUT did we heard Jon Snow saying that his brother and rightful heir of Winterfell is alive?NO

Robbin Arryn if he was a conqueror he could take the North. He might not be loved, but he could. He has the army(maybe the strongest army in Westeros right now, since the Vale didnt lost any men dyuring the war of the five kings). I he wanted he would be the ruler of the north. If the Northeners didnt like it they could rebell but he still has the men... Robbin never visited the North indeed, but was lucky enough to be born an Arryn. The army that saved Jon was his.. If Robbin Arryn wasnt a sick child, he could take North for him... Switching to another house in not something that never happened. Maybe not in the North, but do you know they Tyrell-Gardener story? Do you know how house Tully became Lord of Riverrun and Lord Paramount of the Trident?

I didn't start a competition about who was mores chose Jon or Daenerys..(maybe look the posts above you and you will see)

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On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 8:32 AM, The Knight of Flours said:

lol - I liked the ending :)

It is perhaps a bit provocative, although Jon has no reason to recognise her as Queen of the Andals, Rhoynar, and First Men, at this stage, in view of the fact that she only controls Dragonstone, and has never been crowned.

On reflection, it would be more diplomatic to address her as "Her Grace, Daenerys of House Targaryen, First of Her Name, Queen of Meereen and Lady of Dragonstone ", enabling him to address her as a fellow monarch, while side-stepping the issue of Westeros.

"Madam and Dear Cousin" is an alternative, establishing equality between one monarch and another.

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