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If the Lannisters ends up winning the Iron Throne


Feologild

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I would not be disappointed - as I qm open to any well written outcome - but I would be surprised.

The Lannisters have bled heavily - both on a "Westerlands" and on a "House" level. The Westerlands have been pillaged by King Robb and the Crownlands also have seen warfare. And the Faith is a contender for control over the CL and KL.

They have no leadership at present - Cersei does not count - and the Lannisters can be swept away by e.g. the Tyrells - either alone or in alliance with somebody else.

I would be disappointed - but not very surprised - if Westeros bent the knee to Petyr the first of his name ...

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1 hour ago, TMIFairy said:

I would not be disappointed - as I qm open to any well written outcome - but I would be surprised.

The Lannisters have bled heavily - both on a "Westerlands" and on a "House" level. The Westerlands have been pillaged by King Robb and the Crownlands also have seen warfare. And the Faith is a contender for control over the CL and KL.

They have no leadership at present - Cersei does not count - and the Lannisters can be swept away by e.g. the Tyrells - either alone or in alliance with somebody else.

I would be disappointed - but not very surprised - if Westeros bent the knee to Petyr the first of his name ...

The Lannisters still have Devann Lannister who is said to be a lot smarter then his father and just so happens to be in charge of the Lannister army or at least part of it atm. IMO Devan will take CR as his seat which will pit him against Cersie and he will have the support of the Westerlands nobility because Cersie is obviously bat shit crazy and a woman. 

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28 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

IMO Devan will take CR as his seat which will pit him against Cersie and he will have the support of the Westerlands nobility because Cersie is obviously bat shit crazy and a woman. 

And this nicely points out the problem -

- besides being beset - or facing threats - on all sides, the Lannisters can well end up with a civil war of their own.

Parts of the Lords of the Wetrlands maybe be fed up with "the crazy in KL"/ the cost of keeping KL/Crownlands under Lannsiter/Westerlander control (is the KL even under the control of the Lannisters in mid 300AC?) and press Devan to throw Cersei and her bastards under the bus. They are more worried about threats closer to home - Ironborn and banditry  in the Riverlands. Maybe there is unrest amogst the smallfolk?

 

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6 hours ago, Feologild said:

Will this be a disappointment in your eyes or is this the ending you want to see happening?

Getting caught up on who "wins" the game of thrones is a mistake. The Iron Throne isn't a relevant position of power in the mythic sense, which is all that's going to be important very quickly. Seats of legit mythic power are where attention should be paid: Winterfell, Harrenhal, the Hightower, maybe a few others.

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There is almost no chance at all that the Lannisters end up with the Iron Throne.

They only have influence over it because Tommen is considered a Baratheon.

The Baratheons only hold the throne because they are the closest living Targaryen relatives.

In the sense that Tommen is really pure Lannister and is under control of his Lannister mother, sure, they could end up winning the Game of Thrones.  But that isn't quite the same thing as a ruling Lannister Dynasty.

11 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

he Lannisters still have Devann Lannister who is said to be a lot smarter then his father

Yeah... but that isn't a high bar.  Stafford Lannister is considered a moron, there isn't anything to imply that Daven Lannister is anything more than of average intelligence.  Also, being a good warrior/knight (it is implied Daven is at least competent if not above average) is not the same as being an intelligent ruler - Robert Baratheon being exhibit A.

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I am at a loss as to who this Lannister could be. Jaime, Cersei, Lancel? And why would anybody make any of them king/queen. At this point a Lannister on the throne would be nonsensical from a story telling POV. This doesn't mean I think the Lannisters will be wiped out by the end, I don't. I just don't see a path to the throne for any of the remaining Lannisters (except Cersei, who is dead meat at this point). I suppose I would be disappointed since a Lannister on the throne would mean that GRRM has decided all you need to take the throne/lordship/etc. is to kill the person currently occupying that spot. That isn't how it works in Westeros.

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47 minutes ago, bent branch said:

I am at a loss as to who this Lannister could be. Jaime, Cersei, Lancel? And why would anybody make any of them king/queen

None of the three are particularly bright, albeit not devoid of some cunning.

Cersei makes up for lack of wit with ruthlessness.

Jaime is THE Kingslayer, which cuts into his fanbase.

Lancel seems the least intelligent of this trio. He may be of age with other Teen Hot-Shots of Westeros but he had not been trained to be a lord. However, being a Born Again Sevener gives him some brownie points in certain circles. His spin doctors could position his brand as a slihglty more militant come-again Baelor the Blessed.

 

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2 hours ago, bent branch said:

I am at a loss as to who this Lannister could be. Jaime, Cersei, Lancel? And why would anybody make any of them king/queen. At this point a Lannister on the throne would be nonsensical from a story telling POV. This doesn't mean I think the Lannisters will be wiped out by the end, I don't. I just don't see a path to the throne for any of the remaining Lannisters (except Cersei, who is dead meat at this point). I suppose I would be disappointed since a Lannister on the throne would mean that GRRM has decided all you need to take the throne/lordship/etc. is to kill the person currently occupying that spot. That isn't how it works in Westeros.

I believe that you are wrong in regards to what it would mean if the Lannisters kept the throne. I think the situation is more about how chaotic succession becomes in a time of crisis when you need *your* person on the throne since another guy's candidate will chop your head off, and how division leads to fail.

In fact I think that tgere's a theme for this in the books. if there's a new Dance of the Dragons between Targaryen candidates it will mirror the infighting between Stannis and Renly. In both the cases of Baratheon and Targaryen they could have swept all before them but blinded by their personal ambitions for the throne, they turned on each other and allowed what should have been their common enemy to capitalize on their infighting and defeat them in the end.

Not to mention the possibility of a civil war within House Lannister between Tyrion and Cersei which could be, but I hope not, the thing to really cause House Lannister to fall rather than outside force.

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35 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

I believe that you are wrong in regards to what it would mean if the Lannisters kept the throne. I think the situation is more about how chaotic succession becomes in a time of crisis when you need *your* person on the throne since another guy's candidate will chop your head off, and how division leads to fail.

In fact I think that tgere's a theme for this in the books. if there's a new Dance of the Dragons between Targaryen candidates it will mirror the infighting between Stannis and Renly. In both the cases of Baratheon and Targaryen they could have swept all before them but blinded by their personal ambitions for the throne, they turned on each other and allowed what should have been their common enemy to capitalize on their infighting and defeat them in the end.

Not to mention the possibility of a civil war within House Lannister between Tyrion and Cersei which could be, but I hope not, the thing to really cause House Lannister to fall rather than outside force.

So which of the Lannisters do you think it would be? I don't see any foreshadowing for any of them.

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I don't think this will be the outcome but honestly I wouldn't have problem with it, as people mentioned before, if it is well written, its alright. Same as I believe Boltons won't remain Wardens of the North, I still hope they do. 

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I'd love that because it would be less banal than Dany (which I assume will die) or Jon, like 'here I am, the secret son of the king and true heir', I mean I thought I wasn't reading Cinderella.

Jon king is actually what will likely happen, Raeghar and Lyanna were likely married... a bit too conventional for my tastes and to justify reading about 6.000 pages in the end.

If it was up to me, the dragons and all the characters involving 'magic' should die fighting against the others, and the 'normal guys' should be left to pick up the pieces. That would result in Jon (resurrected) and Dany (unburnt) sacrificing themselves one way or another for the greater good, Beric and Melisandre dying, .

Then Tyrion, having Cersei died during the IT war (and Jamie as well), would be the heir to the IT (or if Jon became king and died, Sansa would likely be). Tyrion would resume his marriage with Sansa (or the other way round) because a Lannister+Stark marriage would unite North and South, because a beautiful wife would help making a dwarf more accepted, because he trusts her judgement and she his and because he and Sansa like each other as people. Maybe in time they will fall in love as Ned and Cat (or maybe not, we will never know as the story ends before).

Brienne would be the Commander of the Kingsguard, holding the post her beloved Jamie once held.

Sam would write the song of Ice and Fire.

Of course none of this will happen.

Still, as the Starks have been presented as the honorable heroes all along (some more shady than others), losing at the beginning and then triumphing, while the Lannisters as the greedy ones, winning at the beginning and then losing (except for Cersei on the throne but their gold is gone and she won't be queen forever..) so it would be lovely to see a change in their fate

Plus, Tyrion is my fave character; anyway - besides GRRM's writing has proved to be more conventional than I thought or hoped, which lead us to Jon king - I can't see Tyrion on the throne because people would never accept a dwarf sadly and I still fear GRRM could plan some Severus Snape coupe of theatre and make him die at the very end or go away in some stranger land, to pull off some Lord of the rings thing.

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11 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

I'd love that because it would be less banal than Dany (which I assume will die) or Jon, like 'here I am, the secret son of the king and true heir', I mean I thought I wasn't reading Cinderella.

Jon king is actually what will likely happen, Raeghar and Lyanna were likely married... a bit too conventional for my tastes and to justify reading about 6.000 pages in the end.

If it was up to me, the dragons and all the characters involving 'magic' should die fighting against the others, and the 'normal guys' should be left to pick up the pieces. That would result in Jon (resurrected) and Dany (unburnt) sacrificing themselves one way or another for the greater good, Beric and Melisandre dying, .

Then Tyrion, having Cersei died during the IT war (and Jamie as well), would be the heir to the IT (or if Jon became king and died, Sansa would likely be). Tyrion would resume his marriage with Sansa (or the other way round) because a Lannister+Stark marriage would unite North and South, because a beautiful wife would help making a dwarf more accepted, because he trusts her judgement and she his and because he and Sansa like each other as people. Maybe in time they will fall in love as Ned and Cat (or maybe not, we will never know as the story ends before).

Brienne would be the Commander of the Kingsguard, holding the post her beloved Jamie once held.

Sam would write the song of Ice and Fire.

Of course none of this will happen.

Still, as the Starks have been presented as the honorable heroes all along (some more shady than others), losing at the beginning and then triumphing, while the Lannisters as the greedy ones, winning at the beginning and then losing (except for Cersei on the throne but their gold is gone and she won't be queen forever..) so it would be lovely to see a change in their fate

Plus, Tyrion is my fave character; anyway - besides GRRM's writing has proved to be more conventional than I thought or hoped, which lead us to Jon king - I can't see Tyrion on the throne because people would never accept a dwarf sadly and I still fear GRRM could plan some Severus Snape coupe of theatre and make him die at the very end or go away in some stranger land, to pull off some Lord of the rings thing.

Beric has long been dead. I will consider the rest of your post in light of the fact you didn't know that.

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6 minutes ago, bent branch said:

Beric has long been dead. I will consider the rest of your post in light of the fact you didn't know that.

Oh com'on you never made any mistake. If I were unemployed, I'd go reading all your posts to see if you live up to your own expectations. You brought the word pedantic to a new level and I will consider that as a statement about your character. I guess saying "hey, thanks for your post, I think you made a mistake writing it down.." wouldn't be as satisfying for you as looking down at somebody else. I wrote Beric but I meant Benjen, whose fate is unclear and it will likely be similar to what it is in the show.

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56 minutes ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

Oh com'on you never made any mistake. If I were unemployed, I'd go reading all your posts to see if you live up to your own expectations. You brought the word pedantic to a new level and I will consider that as a statement about your character. I guess saying "hey, thanks for your post, I think you made a mistake writing it down.." wouldn't be as satisfying for you as looking down at somebody else. I wrote Beric but I meant Benjen, whose fate is unclear and it will likely be similar to what it is in the show.

At this point the show and books are so far apart that certain statements mark you as a show watcher who is trying to pass themselves off as someone who has read the books. Thinking Beric is still alive is one of those. Also, your "save" of, "oh, I meant Benjen." doesn't actually help, since Benjen has been missing since AGOT in the books, so him "dying" is entirely pointless. If Benjen has been revealed as alive in the show, I wouldn't know since I've stopped watching. You can call me whatever you want. I'll call you hypocrite, since you've come into the books forum to bad mouth GRRM when I doubt you've actually read the books.

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On 8/1/2017 at 3:38 AM, Feologild said:

Will this be a disappointment in your eyes or is this the ending you want to see happening?

Which Lannister do you think it will be? All of Cersei's children will die eventually, Cersei is as good as dead, Jaime's in the KG. That leaves Tyrion. 

I would probably be slightly disappointed if it's Tyrion, but I wouldn't mind as long as the North is held by the Starks.

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