Greyscale, Jorah and Sam

[KhalDrogoReborn]

So it looks like Jorah's Greyscale was cured thanks to Sam.

What do you think? Is it really gone now or will it come back with vengeance?

And did you see the close up on the super long handshake between Jorah and Sam? After all we know that Greyscale is extremely contagious...

[Samwell_Tarly]

Jorahs Greyscale was definitely cured, it would serve no purpose to have sam become infected as he would know how to cure his self. 

 

[Wut Wut]

2 hours ago, KhalDrogoReborn said:

So it looks like Jorah's Greyscale was cured thanks to Sam.

What do you think? Is it really gone now or will it come back with vengeance?

And did you see the close up on the super long handshake between Jorah and Sam? After all we know that Greyscale is extremely contagious...

I think the long handshake was to emphasise how Jorah was longing for human contact. You could say he was...touched...

Someone on the forums said the greyscale could still attack Jorahs mind since we don't know exactly how the illness works. Could become a stone wight. Would be cool.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Was anyone else underwhelmed with how 'easy' it was to cure? 

I love Jorah and I like that a friend of Jeor's saved his son but the mention of greyscale always sent a shiver through me like it was the worst affliction known to man, but Sam, a novice cured it with ease.

[direwoofwoof]

Yes, after all the greyscale hype over several seasons, it was a bit anticlimactic. "I read about it and followed the directions!" Good going Sam! But I'm looking forward to a Dany-Jorah reunion. Hope he doesn't get himself killed on the way. 

[Ser Matt Dayne]

57 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Was anyone else underwhelmed with how 'easy' it was to cure? 

I love Jorah and I like that a friend of Jeor's saved his son but the mention of greyscale always sent a shiver through me like it was the worst affliction known to man, but Sam, a novice cured it with ease.

It did feel rushed but they did a good enough job to suggest it certainly wasn't easy, not for Jorah anyway. 

I did enjoy the handshake however, I genuinely got gossebumps for Jorah feeling human contact again especially given he was only told 24 hours earlier to top himself.

[Jordan La Cabra]

10 minutes ago, direwoofwoof said:

Yes, after all the greyscale hype over several seasons, it was a bit anticlimactic. "I read about it and followed the directions!" Good going Sam! But I'm looking forward to a Dany-Jorah reunion. Hope he doesn't get himself killed on the way. 

It would be a shame if he got the greyscale that was killing him cured but somehow died on his way to meet up with Dany again. 

I think he has a purpose to serve in this story. In the same way we knew Jon being killed by his black brothers wasn't the end of his story, I felt Jorah contracting greyscale wasn't the end of him. 

But hey, stranger things have happened.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I don't know whether to be underwhelmed at the greyscale cure or the current maesters b/c apparently the only difference between them and Sam is that he reads the instructions AND follows them. So had greyscale always been easily curable and the maesters aren't so smart as they think they are or what?

[Samwell_Tarly]

22 minutes ago, direwoofwoof said:

Yes, after all the greyscale hype over several seasons, it was a bit anticlimactic. "I read about it and followed the directions!" Good going Sam! But I'm looking forward to a Dany-Jorah reunion. Hope he doesn't get himself killed on the way. 

I agree but what else did you want to happen? A full episode on him peeling of his top layer then applying the oinkment. It wasnt a straight forward procedure and if you believe it was then thats pretty damn stupid. The show made it out to be very dangerous ie pylos book and how he died etc, for me it was one of the better scenes, clear and concise. Pretty sure Dany and Jorah union is confirmed so him dying on the way to there is impossible.

9 minutes ago, Ser Matt Dayne said:

It did feel rushed but they did a good enough job to suggest it certainly wasn't easy, not for Jorah anyway. 

I did enjoy the handshake however, I genuinely got gossebumps for Jorah feeling human contact again especially given he was only told 24 hours earlier to top himself.

It was rushed but very well done i thought. 

The handshake was a sense of relieve for Jorah, he was cured and could finally touch another human without infecting them. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

13 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I agree but what else did you want to happen? A full episode on him peeling of his top layer then applying the oinkment. It wasnt a straight forward procedure and if you believe it was then thats pretty damn stupid. The show made it out to be very dangerous ie pylos book and how he died etc, for me it was one of the better scenes, clear and concise. Pretty sure Dany and Jorah union is confirmed so him dying on the way to there is impossible.

 

I don't think he is suggesting that it looks easy, nor would anyone want a full episode of Sam plucking away Jorah's greyscale with a scalpel. 

The point is that, as others have stated, it's rather bizarre that a novice in the Citadel can come along and pull of a very dangerous procedure in his first go, when even the Archmaester was reluctant to do it. 

Sam literally followed a procedure from a book and it worked. He had never done anything like that before, so that suggests if you or I went and followed the instructions we could cure someone with greyscale. And given how sinister the disease has been made out to be the whole series, that's a bit anticlimactical.

[Damon_Tor]

I was hoping it would be something really cool. Like, he makes a scalpel out of dragonglass (obsidian is used by surgeons IRL) and heats it in a fire until it's glowing, then peels off the infected skin with the white-hot volcanic glass.

Bonus points if the final product is that Jorah winds up looking like Victarion in the books: with an arm made of lava.

[Dr. Pepper]

I didn't find it all that unlikely that Sam would be able to accomplish this simply by following the instructions.  What other things did previous maesters include?  Did they try to use any sort of anesthetic, some sort of pain reliever? Exactly how did the other patients die?  

I doubt previous patients being debrided were as unmoving as Jorah was in what was effectively a sterile room.  There were probably many people present trying to hold the patient down whereas Jorah and Sam were on their own with Jorah made the be as still and quiet as possible.  That significantly limits the amount of infectants than can enter the system.  It also limits the possibility of other accidents like cutting too deep or the greyscale patient infecting the surgeon.  

Sam followed the directions - debride the scaled skin and apply ointment - and not a bit more.  Jorah's ability to withstand it while being still and quiet was probably the magic component rather than Sam's abilities.  

[Samwell_Tarly]

1 minute ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I don't think he is suggesting that it looks easy, nor would anyone want a full episode of Sam plucking away Jorah's greyscale with a scalpel. 

So what did you want to see???

1 minute ago, JordanJH1993 said:

The point is that, as others have stated, it's rather bizarre that a novice in the Citadel can come along and pull of a very dangerous procedure in his first go, when even the Archmaester was reluctant to do it. 

The procedure of grey scale was locked away as its banned and too dangerous and does not always, due to most who tried contracted the disease. Obviously Sam isnt going to go on a spree curing people with greyscale. I believe there is a bigger conspiracy that involves the Maesters, Maester  Luwin tells Bran to ignore his dreams and they are nothing, and also re iterates the fact that magic is gone from the world and all Maesters try and fail. 

1 minute ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Sam literally followed a procedure from a book and it worked. He had never done anything like that before, so that suggests if you or I went and followed the instructions we could cure someone with greyscale. And given how sinister the disease has been made out to be the whole series, that's a bit anticlimactical.

I partially agree that it does seem unlikely he cured Jorah with ease but it was far from that, we have to understand that people contracted the disease while trying and thats why the procedure was banned and locked away. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I didn't find it all that unlikely that Sam would be able to accomplish this simply by following the instructions.  What other things did previous maesters include?  Did they try to use any sort of anesthetic, some sort of pain reliever? Exactly how did the other patients die?  

I doubt previous patients being debrided were as unmoving as Jorah was in what was effectively a sterile room.  There were probably many people present trying to hold the patient down whereas Jorah and Sam were on their own with Jorah made the be as still and quiet as possible.  That significantly limits the amount of infectants than can enter the system.  It also limits the possibility of other accidents like cutting too deep or the greyscale patient infecting the surgeon.  

Sam followed the directions - debride the scaled skin and apply ointment - and not a bit more.  Jorah's ability to withstand it while being still and quiet was probably the magic component rather than Sam's abilities.  

If it was that simple all along then Maesters that had tried it through the years would abandon any attempt at curing a greyscale patient as soon as he started moving around or making a scene. And they would have known that too many cooks spoiled the broth, or in other words, too many doctors spread the greyscale.

58 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

So what did you want to see???

The procedure of grey scale was locked away as its banned and too dangerous and does not always, due to most who tried contracted the disease. Obviously Sam isnt going to go on a spree curing people with greyscale. I believe there is a bigger conspiracy that involves the Maesters, Maester  Luwin tells Bran to ignore his dreams and they are nothing, and also re iterates the fact that magic is gone from the world and all Maesters try and fail. 

I partially agree that it does seem unlikely he cured Jorah with ease but it was far from that, we have to understand that people contracted the disease while trying and thats why the procedure was banned and locked away. 

I don't expect Sam to now be Westeros resident greyscale specialist by any means. But it seems a shame that people like the Archmaester was willing to let Jorah top himself or be consumed by greyscale when he could well have cured him himself if he did as Sam, a novice did, and followed a set of instructions in a controlled environment to cure him. That suggests to me that they have let many men and women inflicted with greyscale die or be consumed by it, even though curing it isn't as difficult as it's been made out to be, which doesn't sit right with me.

Anyway, I suspect this to be the show almost magicing a quick fix to cure it just to get him cured. I wonder what the point of him even contracting greyscale was if there wasn't a more revelatory way to cure it. I thought if he was ever cured it was going to be some sort of ground breaking moment, akin to a doctor finding out the cure to cancer, but it was more like a basic operation for appendicitis.

[Xarkar]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

 

Sam followed the directions - debride the scaled skin and apply ointment - and not a bit more.  Jorah's ability to withstand it while being still and quiet was probably the magic component rather than Sam's abilities.  

That was my thought.

I highly doubt anyone else going under this procedure would have been as still and dedicated as Jorah.

He basically knew he could attempt this with Sam, or cut his own throat and die, and he wanted to see Dany again more than anything.

[Jordan La Cabra]

2 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

That was my thought.

I highly doubt anyone else going under this procedure would have been as still and dedicated as Jorah.

He basically knew he could attempt this with Sam, or cut his own throat and die, and he wanted to see Dany again more than anything.

That undermines anyone else who ever had greyscale's desire to be cured of it. We must assume somewhere along the line some man or woman that had children and a family contracted it and were unable to be cured of it, and their desire to be cured would be equal if not more than Jorah's to be cured to be reunited with Dany.

Unfortunately I think it's a case of Jorah is an important character with stuff left to do and the writers dumbed down and made curing greyscale simpler than it actually will be in the books (I hope!).

[Samwell_Tarly]

18 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I don't expect Sam to now be Westeros resident greyscale specialist by any means. But it seems a shame that people like the Archmaester was willing to let Jorah top himself or be consumed by greyscale when he could well have cured him himself if he did as Sam, a novice did, and followed a set of instructions in a controlled environment to cure him. That suggests to me that they have let many men and women inflicted with greyscale die or be consumed by it, even though curing it isn't as difficult as it's been made out to be, which doesn't sit right with me.

The Maesters hoard a lot of knowledge, but knowing something works isn't the same as knowing why something works. If you have a cure but don't know why it's a cure, and sometimes something goes wrong but you don't know what or why, you'd be very hesitant to use that cure as a regular treatment.

Add to that the fact that Greyscale is just so highly infectious, and it's no mystery at all why they think amputation is the better way to go and why they dont want to use the ''cure''. The Maesters view themselves as very important to the continuity of Society why would they risk curing one person. Also I believe that the Maesters are part of a bigger conspiracy. 

Quote

Anyway, I suspect this to be the show almost magicing a quick fix to cure it just to get him cured. I wonder what the point of him even contracting greyscale was if there wasn't a more revelatory way to cure it. I thought if he was ever cured it was going to be some sort of ground breaking moment, akin to a doctor finding out the cure to cancer, but it was more like a basic operation for appendicitis.

 After reading the through the recipe for the ointment then I understand what you are saying, you wanted more of a massive moment , a big reveal for this disease.

[Jordan La Cabra]

5 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

The Maesters hoard a lot of knowledge, but knowing something works isn't the same as knowing why something works. If you have a cure but don't know why it's a cure, and sometimes something goes wrong but you don't know what or why, you'd be very hesitant to use that cure as a regular treatment.

Add to that the fact that Greyscale is just so highly infectious, and it's no mystery at all why they think amputation is the better way to go and why they dont want to use the ''cure''. The Maesters view themselves as very important to the continuity of Society why would they risk curing one person. Also I believe that the Maesters are part of a bigger conspiracy. 

 After reading the through the recipe for the ointment then I understand what you are saying, you wanted more of a massive moment , a big reveal for this disease.

There's definitely a lot more at risk than potential for gain when it comes to curing greyscale so I can see why maesters would avoid trying the procedure. I suppose it says more about Sam for the fact he was willing to not only risk his health but his place in the citadel to cure Jeor Mormont's son.

I just had a feeling that the cure to greyscale would maybe be more than just the cure to greyscale, if that makes sense. It just seems that the only thing that came out of it was Jorah being cured as opposed to another lesson learned about the disease or the secrets of Valyria.

[Dr. Pepper]

35 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

If it was that simple all along then Maesters that had tried it through the years would abandon any attempt at curing a greyscale patient as soon as he started moving around or making a scene. And they would have known that too many cooks spoiled the broth, or in other words, too many doctors spread the greyscale.

I don't expect Sam to now be Westeros resident greyscale specialist by any means. But it seems a shame that people like the Archmaester was willing to let Jorah top himself or be consumed by greyscale when he could well have cured him himself if he did as Sam, a novice did, and followed a set of instructions in a controlled environment to cure him. That suggests to me that they have let many men and women inflicted with greyscale die or be consumed by it, even though curing it isn't as difficult as it's been made out to be, which doesn't sit right with me.

Anyway, I suspect this to be the show almost magicing a quick fix to cure it just to get him cured. I wonder what the point of him even contracting greyscale was if there wasn't a more revelatory way to cure it. I thought if he was ever cured it was going to be some sort of ground breaking moment, akin to a doctor finding out the cure to cancer, but it was more like a basic operation for appendicitis.

None of this makes any sense.  It wasn't just Jorah's health that was in potential jeopardy, it was also Sam's.

The cure was incredibly difficult.  Did you not see what was involved???

22 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

That undermines anyone else who ever had greyscale's desire to be cured of it. We must assume somewhere along the line some man or woman that had children and a family contracted it and were unable to be cured of it, and their desire to be cured would be equal if not more than Jorah's to be cured to be reunited with Dany.

Unfortunately I think it's a case of Jorah is an important character with stuff left to do and the writers dumbed down and made curing greyscale simpler than it actually will be in the books (I hope!).

How does it undermine anyone else?  This wasn't a simple cure.  The technique might have seemed simple, but it required a great deal as the patient had to be still and quiet while being flayed alive.  And Sam had to be the one to flay the person, which isn't easy.  ffs.  The only pain relief was a swallow of alcohol right at the start, which isn't pain relief at all.  

Again, we don't know everything the other maesters did during the treatment.  Did they add extra steps?  Did the patient move too much?  Did they not protect their body enough from the infected flesh?  I mean, so many variables, but we know there were no extra variables in Sam's method (beyond a swallow of alcohol) which may have been the deciding factor. 

[Samwell_Tarly]

2 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

There's definitely a lot more at risk than potential for gain when it comes to curing greyscale so I can see why maesters would avoid trying the procedure. I suppose it says more about Sam for the fact he was willing to not only risk his health but his place in the citadel to cure Jeor Mormont's son.

Sam isnt like the others Maesters, hes come here specifically for a reason. As said hes willing to do anything to find what he needs and repay people for what have done for him, no matter the risk.

2 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I just had a feeling that the cure to greyscale would maybe be more than just the cure to greyscale, if that makes sense. It just seems that the only thing that came out of it was Jorah being cured as opposed to another lesson learned about the disease or the secrets of Valyria.

Yeah I totally understand where your coming from, and as you say itll be rushed, a quick fix by non other than D&D. As said it was sort of pointless but thats GOT now, nonsensical crap. We learned nothing other than that the Maesters dont really want to help.